Express bowlers are born, not made, like this one.

[Suhaan]

Just now, Shaz1 said:

You can’t help yourself so how can you help others? Why not worry about fixing your wounds? 

Hey blind ,take some time off,visit a doctor,im sure , you'll be fine

Humans do help others,so.....

[MechEng]

18 minutes ago, Shaz1 said:

Akthar was injury prone. He was able to produce what he did due to the time off he had. He was a impact bowler who did not play that much Test cricket.

 

If Hasnain is managed correctly he could possibly produce consistent performances at high speed. Pakistan needs to learn from Australia on how to manage there fast bowlers.

Did Akhtar gain weight due to genes later in his career? We all saw how flabby he was from 2006 and onward. 

Edited September 15, 2019 by MechEng

[Suhaan]

8 minutes ago, Shaz1 said:

 

Here’s a longer version. Go off take a walk. Its gonna hurt for a while.

 

Despite being blind and mentally unstable your efforts are commendable

If you are good at sports , Paralympic s ,worth giving a try but not before consulting a doctor

[MechEng]

9 minutes ago, Shaz1 said:

I am not sure. Maybe his knee problems kept him bed ridden for too long? He does work out a lot these days but boy did he age heavily.

He had to undergo liposuction! You only do liposuction if you cannot lose fat with good diet and workout. He was a crazy bowler, bowled the fastest delivery even though his body was not ideal for fast bowling.

[MechEng]

1 hour ago, Shaz1 said:

Yeah his level of determination to bowl as fast as he did was unreal. Who knows what kind of bowler would he be if his body was suited for fast bowling? If you give Shoaib’s determination to another fast bowler he could achieve crazy numbers.

That fast bowler would also have a career like Shoaib Akhtar. He was extreme and only wanted to bowl fast unlike Steyn who started out as express bowler but later cut down on pace and developed a lethal outswinger.

[MCcricket]

Good to see exciting talent, what Pakistan needs is good batters, and groundwork n with Imran at the helm things will happen

[Ankit_sharma03]

5 hours ago, Shaz1 said:

Akthar was injury prone. He was able to produce what he did due to the time off he had. He was a impact bowler who did not play that much Test cricket.

 

If Hasnain is managed correctly he could possibly produce consistent performances at high speed. Pakistan needs to learn from Australia on how to manage there fast bowlers.

Akhtar had knee issue.....with that kind of pace u will be injury prone for sure. Lets not forget subcontinent  still didnt have the kind of diet n fitness regimes that some like lee or steyn had. Even someone like bond who bowled at a lil lesser pace was so injury prone.  He cud have choosen to cut down his pace n lengthen his career but he choose to stick to his strength. Sehwag cud have choosen to cut down his aggresive game like dhoni n be consistent.....but he choose to be sehwag. Nothing wrong in the choices they made. They choose to stick to their strength other choose adaptability....cricket needs both kind. 

[rkt.india]

1 hour ago, Shaz1 said:

I get that my problem is people are overrating his success a bit too much when he never played enough to warrant it. So when I compare him to a youngster a guy like me is solely talking about him being the fastest tearaway bowler from our team. Hasnain has a lot to prove to the world still but the potential of being our regular speedster is there.

Akhtar played 46 tests, 163 ODIs. They're enough to judge a bowler. Shane bond has 18 tests, 82 ODIs, but is still considered one of the best from NZ. Same for Ryan Harris.

[Suhaan]

Don't think anyone is over rating Akhtar here, people here are just applauding him for the fact that his will to bowl at express pace despite getting injured time and again 

[veer]

Jeez.. why dont we acknowledge something that is right in front of our eyes..  dont lie to yourself just cuz someone is from padosi mulk.. life would be much easier if we dont live in self-denial.. Guy has a great pace... good for them.. 

 

 

[express bowling]

One thing must be said that countries like Australia, South Africa, Pakistan and the West Indies ... that is countries which have produced good fast bowlers overs the years ... all tend to fast track or try to fast track a genuinely quick bowler and groom him specially if they can. They get all excited just by seeing raw pace.

 

Hasnain will receive special attention from Waqar Younis and I read in this thread that he has been brought back to play domestic FC cricket as a matter of priority.   Shaheen Afridi was fast tracked and successfully too. ( he is not a genuine quick but tall and bouncy )

 

Oshane Thomas was fast tracked because he bowled quick in CPL last season. And he has made decent strides after receiving special attention to groom him.  Alzarri Joseph has been playing for the WI for quite some time too.

 

Was listening to the Aussie commentators and they were dying to fast track and specislly groom Riles Meredith because he bowled quick in the Big Bash.

 

Compare this with our ... Avesh Khan,   who was thought to be quick and bouncy and bowls a heavy ball right from 2016,   is still competing equally with the Shardul Thakurs and Deepak Chahars and usually losing a spot to them even in our A-team. Got to play regularly for his state after a long time too.

 

Navdeep Saini has been bowling quickly from 2017 ... and has been bowling accurately with seam movement too ... and has loads of FC experience ... but is yet to debut in either tests or ODIs despite being 27 years old. We could not even hand him a spot at home in a test against Afghanistan.

 

M.Prasidh has not got to play regularly for his state team in FC despite being a tall, bouncy and quick bowler who gets outswing.  He has bowled 150 kph in the IPL but I see no sign of him getting special grooming.

 

Big names like Gavaskar were taunting Saini when he was bowling quickly in the IPL. While Bishop. Lee, Jones etc. were getting excited.

 

Now, I am not suggesting that a player has to be included in Team India without FC experience or good performances.   FC experience is the biggest stepping stone in the development process of a player.  But the BCCI must make sure that 

a)   Every pacer who is bowling 145 k +  gets to play as many FC and List A games as possible.

b)  Make sure that they are groomed specially.

c)  They must get priority in selection in A-teams if they perform well in FC.

d)  They must get priority in selection in the Senior Team if they perform well at A-team level.

 

Shivam Mavi and K. Nagarkoti must be groomed and selected this way when they get fit. 

 

Genuine fast bowlers have short " life spans ". Don't waste it on making them compete with mediocrity.

 

Edited September 16, 2019 by express bowling

[ShoonyaSifar]

Why should a FC team prefer a 145 kmph bowler who gets very few wickets over someone who bowls 130-135 but regularly takes wickets? I totally get the point about motivating pace bowlers by giving them chances but then not one young bowler we currently have, has bowled 145+ in a FC match. Saini came the closest and is already in the national setup.

 

Other argument normally given is you can't teach pace to someone, that comes naturally. Likewise you cannot teach wicket taking skills to a seamer, definitely not at the FC level. Also, chances of a 130-135 kmph bowler, who takes wickets regularly, becoming a 140+ bowler after conditioning and strength training is much better than a 145 kmph bowler suddenly taking lots of wickets, later has rarely happened. Other issue with some of the list A/T20 145+ bowlers is their fitness and ability to sustain a 4 day match bowling 20-25 overs in a day. Their pace goes down to 130s in their 2nd and 3rd spell which indicates lack of stamina. Again that cannot be corrected at FC level.

 

Many of our young pacers not in the national side are currently closer to the 2nd bracket and struggle to get into FC teams because they do not give enough returns or keep getting injured. Those FC teams are there to win too and cannot keep giving chances to pacers just on promise.

 

Having said the above, in my nearly 9-10 years of following domestic cricket live on TV, one welcome change to see is the average pace in a Ranji match going up from 125-126 to 132-133. There are at least a couple of bowlers in most televised matches who can bowl 135+ and occasionally 140+. Plus the seamers have become more skillfull and rely on swing, seam and bounce and not just traditional winter swing and cutters.

 

 

[rkt.india]

13 minutes ago, ShoonyaSifar said:

Why should a FC team prefer a 145 kmph bowler who gets very few wickets over someone who bowls 130-135 but regularly takes wickets? I totally get the point about motivating pace bowlers by giving them chances but then not one young bowler we currently have, has bowled 145+ in a FC match. Saini came the closest and is already in the national setup.

 

Other argument normally given is you can't teach pace to someone, that comes naturally. Likewise you cannot teach wicket taking skills to a seamer, definitely not at the FC level. Also, chances of a 130-135 kmph bowler, who takes wickets regularly, becoming a 140+ bowler after conditioning and strength training is much better than a 145 kmph bowler suddenly taking lots of wickets, later has rarely happened. Other issue with some of the list A/T20 145+ bowlers is their fitness and ability to sustain a 4 day match bowling 20-25 overs in a day. Their pace goes down to 130s in their 2nd and 3rd spell which indicates lack of stamina. Again that cannot be corrected at FC level.

 

Many of our young pacers not in the national side are currently closer to the 2nd bracket and struggle to get into FC teams because they do not give enough returns or keep getting injured. Those FC teams are there to win too and cannot keep giving chances to pacers just on promise.

 

Having said the above, in my nearly 9-10 years of following domestic cricket live on TV, one welcome change to see is the average pace in a Ranji match going up from 125-126 to 132-133. There are at least a couple of bowlers in most televised matches who can bowl 135+ and occasionally 140+. Plus the seamers have become more skillfull and rely on swing, seam and bounce and not just traditional winter swing and cutters.

 

 

How many 130-135 bowlers have become great in test cricket history?

 

Regarding 140 bowlers not being successful, can name any 140 bowler who isn't successful in domestic cricket. Avesh averages 23, mavj averaged 23 in his first season. Prasidh Krishna averages 22 in FC. 

Edited September 16, 2019 by rkt.india

[Ankit_sharma03]

11 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

Navdeep Saini has been bowling quickly from 2017 ... and has been bowling accurately with seam movement too ... and has loads of FC experience ... but is yet to debut in either tests or ODIs despite being 27 years old. We could not even hand him a spot at home in a test against Afghanistan.

Even take siraj example ....he was destroying A team in all conditions last year but it was shardul how was getting picked ahead of him. As they say give player a chance when he is in form .....dont wait for him to loose form which is what our selector n TM do 

 

[sandeep]

25 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Even take siraj example ....he was destroying A team in all conditions last year but it was shardul how was getting picked ahead of him. As they say give player a chance when he is in form .....dont wait for him to loose form which is what our selector n TM do 

 

Siraj is raw but very promising.  He has done all you want to deserve more red ball opportunities.

[express bowling]

On 9/16/2019 at 9:47 PM, rkt.india said:

 

. Avesh averages 23, mavj averaged 23 in his first season. Prasidh Krishna averages 22 in FC. 

 

Avesh Khan averages 23.7 with a SR of 46 in FC  ... but has managed to play only 20 FC games in 5 seasons. Sad !

 

M.Prasidh averages 22.55 with a SR of 50.7 in FC ... but has been played in only 6 FC matches in 4 seasons. Pathetic !

 

Mavi averages 24.05 with a SR of 47.3 in FC ... he has atleast managed to play most games he was available in, in his debut season.

 

Yet, some people will hang on to the perception that quick bowlers are not taking wickets.

 

Saini has managed to play lots of FC games only because of a visionary like Gambhir. Otherwise, all those limited thinkers in our cricket fraternity were hell bent on destroying his career.

 

 

Edited September 20, 2019 by express bowling

[express bowling]

31 minutes ago, sandeep said:

Siraj is raw but very promising.  He has done all you want to deserve more red ball opportunities.

 

Siraj performs superlatively in FC cricket and A-team 4 day games.  And what happens. ?

 

He is made to debut in T20Is ...  fails ... and is dropped.

 

Then he is picked for ODIs ... performs averagely ... is dropped.

 

While Shardul Thakur debuts in tests vs the WI because he was earlier in the queue.

 

And Siraj is not played in the only format he is really good in while he is in super hot form.

 

Total lack of clear thought process.

 

Now, Siraj did not help his cause by being very erratic on occasions. Whenever he comes on TV  or some other form of live streamed match, he sprays the ball every 2nd or 3rd innings.  

 

But that should not have stopped him from getting a few chances in test matches when he was in such form ... because of his superlative wicket taking skills in A-team games.

 

Now, that form may be gone and his confidence may have taken a dent.

 

Edited September 16, 2019 by express bowling

[sandeep]

5 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

Siraj performs superlatively in FC cricket and A-team 4 day games.  And what happens. ?

 

He is made to debut in T20Is ...  fails ... and is dropped.

 

Then he is picked for ODIs ... performs averagely ... is dropped.

 

 

 

Yep.  And he's getting better on the 'spraying' front.  He's simply better with the red ball because he can bowl that attacking length without worrying about the batsmen attacking it too often.  What I saw of him in the A series against WI, he looked really good.

 

Not all young bowlers can be masters of execution and control when attempting to vary lengths - which is a must for LOI cricket.  Not everybody is a Jaspreet Bumrah.  

Edited September 16, 2019 by sandeep

[express bowling]

6 minutes ago, sandeep said:

Yep.  And he's getting better on the 'spraying' front.  He's simply better with the red ball because he can bowl that attacking length without worrying about the batsmen attacking it too often.  What I saw of him in the A series against WI, he looked really good.

 

Not all young bowlers can be masters of execution and control when attempting to vary lengths - which is a must for LOI cricket.  Not everybody is a Jaspreet Bumrah.  

 

They missed 2 golden opportunities to play both Saini and Siraj in the home test series vs Afghanistan and the WI in 2018, before the Test Championship started.

 

Both these guys could have debuted by rotation atleast.

 

Now, with the Test Championship going on, it won't be that easy.

[sandeep]

1 minute ago, express bowling said:

 

They missed 2 golden opportunities to play both Saini and Siraj in the home test series vs Afghanistan and the WI in 2018, before the Test Championship started.

 

Both these guys could have debuted by rotation atleast.

 

Now, with the Test Championship going on, it won't be that easy.

Virat is very conservative when it comes to new talent, with bat or ball.  And to a degree, he is a bit too comfortable with the level of control that Bumrah, Bhuvi, Ishant are providing him.   Shami is the one guy who's bit more attacking and doesn't hesitate putting control aside.   A captain has to be confident enough to throw in a young gun pace bowler, and importantly, be patient with him while he inevitably finds his feet.   Virat is not that kind of captain to be honest.  

 

In my fantasy world, I'd love to see Bumrah captain the Indian test unit a couple of years down the line - it would be something else.  But Indian team and cricket fraternity worships its batting 'stars' too much.  I don't see good chances of it happening ever.