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veer

Solution to Kashmir

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Easy in theory but harder to digest for both the sides:

 

India keeps IOK

Give POK to pakistan

Let Azad Kashmir be Azad

 

And put a disclaimer that whoever wants to join Pak from IOK can move to other side or forever hold the peace...

 

This will stop draining us, India, with money... Of course this will be huge sacrifice that India/BJP/Modi will have to make... But, honestly, I don't see we would get POK back without going into war with Pak.. n that will be too costly.. and, as an Indian, I don't feel any connection with POK to sacrifice our soldiers and money for..

 

Let's move on to better things.. we need to progress as a country and invest in better things..

 

Edited by veer

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Pakistan will never go to full fledged war with India for Kashmiri. Despite all crocodile tears, it will not let a single Kashmiri cross its side of border.

So only solution is create a path to Afghanistan by acquiring uninhabited land of PoK and cutoff supply line to china

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7 minutes ago, mishra said:

Pakistan will never go to full fledged war with India for Kashmiri. Despite all crocodile tears, it will not let a single Kashmiri cross its side of border.

So only solution is create a path to Afghanistan by acquiring uninhabited land of PoK and cutoff supply line to china

Kya kuch bhi... 

 

None of the sides will initiate the war and it could drag on and on...

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33 minutes ago, veer said:

Kya kuch bhi... 

 

None of the sides will initiate the war and it could drag on and on...

“Kuchh bi” tab hotaa If i would have asked for whole of Kashmir.  That will require some muscle, diplomacy  and money. I am asking for uninhabited land which provides us access and cuts of China.  This is not impossible. Anything less, we are diplomatically naive and wasted 70 years of struggle 

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11 minutes ago, panther said:

I agree best solution, Make LOC international border.

First time agree with you.

 

After this no terrorism, and then there will be real Aman Ki Asha or Rajesh Ki Rukhsana or vice versa.

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44 minutes ago, mishra said:

“Kuchh bi” tab hotaa If i would have asked for whole of Kashmir.  That will require some muscle, diplomacy  and money. I am asking for uninhabited land which provides us access and cuts of China.  This is not impossible. Anything less, we are diplomatically naive and wasted 70 years of struggle 

I am more for not wasting next 70 years on this.. but what you are saying is another open conflict with us pulling China in... 

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More difficult will be India China. May be give twang take south face access to mansorovar in return and make line of control border and join belt road with separate trade agreement that counters dumping. That should do it. Do all this before China becomes absolute super power. 

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5 hours ago, velu said:

when Pakistan gets freedom from its army 

bd has no army, india(modi govt) even gave them land for border settlement , it's growing. 

 

Pakistan army it seems is bell bent on losing pok, Gilgit baltistan...

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4 hours ago, Vilander said:

More difficult will be India China. May be give twang take south face access to mansorovar in return and make line of control border and join belt road with separate trade agreement that counters dumping. That should do it. Do all this before China becomes absolute super power. 

 

You are living in a fools paradise. No compromise with China as it will embolden their rogue govt. You can not negotiate with thugs. 

 

China’s downfall is certainly imminent, their economic numbers are all cooked up. Their capex and export oriented economy has run its course. And US is absolutely determined to end Chinas trade abuse practices. China has no one but a half hearted Russia that needs Chinese money to buy oil. 

 

 

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@veer sigh Pakistan Army’s bread and butter is Kashmir. If they agree to what you said how can they get paid and get money from their government. Pakistan Army feeds on fear of Indian Army in their Awwam. If you make peace do you really think they will get monies ?  They like to control over their democratic institutions and use proxies to their advantage. They will never let it go. 

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Major Gaurav Arya is fighting a brilliant social media campaign against Pak. He is a huge hit with Pak common man. He has used twitter to troll and suck them in.. 

 

And now is using YouTube videos to expose and nail Pak army for being a dud, lying army that has looted Pak for 72 years. Must watch videos 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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8 minutes ago, gattaca said:

@veer sigh Pakistan Army’s bread and butter is Kashmir. If they agree to what you said how can they get paid and get money from their government. Pakistan Army feeds on fear of Indian Army in their Awwam. If you make peace do you really think they will get monies ?  They like to control over their democratic institutions and use proxies to their advantage. They will never let it go. 

Well.. then more power to us and too bad for them..  this should be our stand and let them scream from roof top if they want.. but we, as a nation, gotta move on and not to spend any more life, money, energy on POK or Azad Kashmir... And pak is pak.. they will be crying and playing victim to the world forever... that's in their blood that's their problem and not ours... We have to progress as a country.. other states and other areas should get those resources.

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One interesting thing about this region PoK is that they have almost nothing in common with Kashmir valley people except Sunni Islam.

Their language is not Kashmiri. They speak Pahari or Poonchi language which is spoken in Jammu region. So these were essentially part of Jammu regions which were captured by Pakistan. 

 

 

Edited by Number

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Can only laugh at people here claiming that going all out for GB/AJK is an option for India. With all that money spent in projects including Highways, Resorts/Tourism Industry etc. anyone will give up the region, add chinese lomg term interest and investment, it is delusion that AJK/GB can ever be part of India. 

 

Best solution is to convert LOC into International Border as suggested. It will also waive off some portion allocated to bulky defence budget. 

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On 9/16/2019 at 1:34 AM, Number said:

One interesting thing about this region PoK is that they have almost nothing in common with Kashmir valley people except Sunni Islam.

Their language is not Kashmiri. They speak Pahari or Poonchi language which is spoken in Jammu region. So these were essentially part of Jammu regions which were captured by Pakistan. 

 

 

Also hunza, pothwari and mirpuri, right? Plenty of Mirpuris and Pothwaris in UK.

 

 

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On 9/15/2019 at 8:03 PM, veer said:

I am more for not wasting next 70 years on this.. but what you are saying is another open conflict with us pulling China in... 

I and you may not live next 70 years but land is gonna be there. Just because we want peace doesnt actually means we give away our share of land. This land is borrowed from next generation of India and we are obligated  to return it to them. Ideally I would want us to return it to them, but most likely, they will have to get it by themselves. Just because we want peace doesnt mean that we close options for next generation of India.

Once again, PoK belongs to India and all the Indians.

 

Anyhow, who knows, what BJP Government can achieve in next 10 years. S. Jaishankar today made it clear, One day PoK will be under Physical control of India.

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15 hours ago, Autonomous said:

Can only laugh at people here claiming that going all out for GB/AJK is an option for India. With all that money spent in projects including Highways, Resorts/Tourism Industry etc. anyone will give up the region, add chinese lomg term interest and investment, it is delusion that AJK/GB can ever be part of India. 

 

Best solution is to convert LOC into International Border as suggested. It will also waive off some portion allocated to bulky defence budget. 

 

Legally all the land which belonged to Princely state of Maharaja Hari Singh belongs to India and Indians even If that includes Lahore and Karachi, why should India give up its right to that land.

Its question of fullfilling our legal obligations to our next generation. Why should we sell it just because you send terrorists

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2 hours ago, mishra said:

 

Legally all the land which belonged to Princely state of Maharaja Hari Singh belongs to India and Indians even If that includes Lahore and Karachi, why should India give up its right to that land.

Its question of fullfilling our legal obligations to our next generation. Why should we sell it just because you send terrorists

Goodluck getting any of the land, neither the people (hardly anyone even likes India there) nor the land belongs to you, you can never get it. 

 

You are free to spend your resources in war, catfights or abhinandans rather than in your society/economy. 

Edited by Autonomous

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8 minutes ago, Autonomous said:

Goodluck getting any of the land, neither the people (hardly anyone even likes India there) nor the land belongs to you, you can never get it. 

 

You are free to spend your resources in war, catfights or abhinandans rather than in your society/economy. 

GB Shias are like Kargil Shias i.e. happy with India...

 

If we somehow secure Pakistan nukes, India has the capability to extract a surrender from pak in a full blown war inside 1 day imo, but 2 days max ...

 

Despite that, I don't want pok( ie muzzafarabad) but I want gilgit baltistan...but it's upto the govt. Of course to decide whether they want take entire pok as well.

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2 hours ago, mishra said:

 

Legally all the land which belonged to Princely state of Maharaja Hari Singh belongs to India and Indians even If that includes Lahore and Karachi, why should India give up its right to that land.

Its question of fullfilling our legal obligations to our next generation. Why should we sell it just because you send terrorists

There is no such thing as legal in deciding borders. Whoever controls it , it belongs to them . Germany was very large but after WW2 large part of it was severed and given to Poland so that Soviet can retain west part of Poland. Intially Germany resisted but later during unification they accepted it. 

 

If you want to fight never ending war and spend billions of dollars then keep shouting we will get POK.Any act of crossing loc by either side will trigger war and World powers will be against that which crosses it. 

 

The question is what price is India ready to pay for POK. Is destruction of few Indian cities by nuclear valid price? 

 

The best solution LoC as permanent border

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19 minutes ago, Singh bling said:

There is no such thing as legal in deciding borders. Whoever controls it , it belongs to them . Germany was very large but after WW2 large part of it was severed and given to Poland so that Soviet can retain west part of Poland. Intially Germany resisted but later during unification they accepted it. 

 

If you want to fight never ending war and spend billions of dollars then keep shouting we will get POK.Any act of crossing loc by either side will trigger war and World powers will be against that which crosses it. 

 

The question is what price is India ready to pay for POK. Is destruction of few Indian cities by nuclear valid price? 

 

The best solution LoC as permanent border

Look, Its fact. I don’t want war so does most Indiians. Pakistan has occupied it by force. Pakistan has faught for it and still fighting for it despite reaching to verge of bankruptcy. 

 

India on the other hand, has lost many lives because it couldn’t take action militarily and diplomatically. It had no allies apart from Iran and Russia and had to bear economic clampdown and wrath of many eu/mideast/USA.

 

For first time, we are reaching to a position where we are not having regular blasts in Indian cities and gap between India and Pakistan is rising in International diplomacy, economy and military. So , IMO, it has lasted for 70+ years. So , lets not do a Nehuru here and take decisions so quickly 

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1 hour ago, randomGuy said:

GB Shias are like Kargil Shias i.e. happy with India...

 

If we somehow secure Pakistan nukes, India has the capability to extract a surrender from pak in a full blown war inside 1 day imo, but 2 days max ...

 

Despite that, I don't want pok( ie muzzafarabad) but I want gilgit baltistan...but it's upto the govt. Of course to decide whether they want take entire pok as well.

Your buddy China won't sit quiet with some movement near Khunjerab and considering how strategic is GB. 

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1 hour ago, mishra said:

Look, Its fact. I don’t want war so does most Indiians. Pakistan has occupied it by force. Pakistan has faught for it and still fighting for it despite reaching to verge of bankruptcy. 

 

India on the other hand, has lost many lives because it couldn’t take action militarily and diplomatically. It had no allies apart from Iran and Russia and had to bear economic clampdown and wrath of many eu/mideast/USA.

 

For first time, we are reaching to a position where we are not having regular blasts in Indian cities and gap between India and Pakistan is rising in International diplomacy, economy and military. So , IMO, it has lasted for 70+ years. So , lets not do a Nehuru here and take decisions so quickly 

Delusions. 

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47 minutes ago, Autonomous said:

Delusions. 

Which part?

1. Pakistan has occupied Kashmir illegally?

2. Pakistan has allmost reached to verge of bankruptcy by the cost of Kashmir fight?

3. India has taken unassailable lead in military diplomacy and economy against Pakistan?

4. Till end 20th century, Pakistan was competitive to India?

5. India has lost many life by terrism emanating from Pakistan?

 

So if all of above wasn’t delusion, why do you think India should give up claim on PoK? 

 

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1 hour ago, mishra said:

Which part?

1. Pakistan has occupied Kashmir illegally?

2. Pakistan has allmost reached to verge of bankruptcy by the cost of Kashmir fight?

3. India has taken unassailable lead in military diplomacy and economy against Pakistan?

4. Till end 20th century, Pakistan was competitive to India?

5. India has lost many life by terrism emanating from Pakistan?

 

So if all of above wasn’t delusion, why do you think India should give up claim on PoK? 

 

GB and AJK can never be part of India, nor can IOK be part of Pakistan.

 

You are probably way too thick to understand that since you have started posting some irrelevant points

 

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46 minutes ago, Stradlater said:

All the Pakistanis who have posted on this thread so far has agreed to the OP's solution. 

That alone proves what a preposterous suggestion it is. 

Thanks but no thanks. 

What do you say?

 

Nuke us? Start a war and kill people? Keep dreaming about some lala land. 

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54 minutes ago, Stradlater said:

All the Pakistanis who have posted on this thread so far has agreed to the OP's solution. 

That alone proves what a preposterous suggestion it is. 

Thanks but no thanks. 

I know that's surprising to me too.. but then, again, to look forward and make any type of progress, we have to go through this or else only War is the option to get the POK.. and are you willing to sacrifice lives for the land that many of us dont feel any connection and for those people who hate India? Even if, say war happens and we win it.. then what? you'll have to put up thousands of soldiers at that place to maintain peace for next decades.. 

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This is such a dumb idea and shows such lack of realpolitik. No country ever gives up a claim- never mind something they are legally in right at- without decisive, tangible gains. So what gains are there in recognizing LoC as international border ? Zero, zip, nada, zilch. It won’t stop the Pakistani from wanting out land. It won’t stop their terrorism. It won’t do anything. 

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3 hours ago, veer said:

I know that's surprising to me too.. but then, again, to look forward and make any type of progress, we have to go through this or else only War is the option to get the POK.. and are you willing to sacrifice lives for the land that many of us dont feel any connection and for those people who hate India? Even if, say war happens and we win it.. then what? you'll have to put up thousands of soldiers at that place to maintain peace for next decades.. 

We can reassert claim 100 years from now, if situation is favourable, provided we maintain claim. Like China did with Tibet. 

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2 hours ago, Muloghonto said:

We can reassert claim 100 years from now, if situation is favourable, provided we maintain claim. Like China did with Tibet. 

And what about lives and funds and energy that gets wasted to maintain that claim? And do you feel any connection with muzzafarabad?.. heck I didn't even know it was part of Kashmir a month back... While J n K was always a part of India...

 

Modi and Shah showed enormous guts to remove 370A.. and we would only gain from moving on as a country.. 

Edited by veer

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2 hours ago, Muloghonto said:

This is such a dumb idea and shows such lack of realpolitik. No country ever gives up a claim- never mind something they are legally in right at- without decisive, tangible gains. So what gains are there in recognizing LoC as international border ? Zero, zip, nada, zilch. It won’t stop the Pakistani from wanting out land. It won’t stop their terrorism. It won’t do anything. 

Now that J n K is India's control territory and with all separatist welcome to join Pakistani land by moving across LOC we can have a firm control on terrorist activities.. all the funds gonna get cut off as well so you may think it's a dumb idea but it could be one of those ideas that Modi Sarkar may be thinking...

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9 minutes ago, The Dark Horse said:

If we do that, do you think it will end? They will start encroaching more and claim more...China will do the same. It will be seen as a weak move and practically no party would do this.

But India of today is not same as one in 50s and 70s.. we are much more capable of striking inside enemy line now.. That's the thing.. the whole mind set is different now after Surgical strikes and 370A removal.. 

 

And our whole mantra should be 'J & K is ours and if anyone wants to separate from India... there is the door.. Period'

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3 minutes ago, Audiophile said:

The whole of India including IOK should secede to Islamic Republic of Pakistan. Problem solved ekdom jhakas! All women will be required to cover head to toe with beekeeper’s suit ... Inshallah! 

stop trolling every thread dude.. 

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3 hours ago, veer said:

And what about lives and funds and energy that gets wasted to maintain that claim? And do you feel any connection with muzzafarabad?.. heck I didn't even know it was part of Kashmir a month back... While J n K was always a part of India...

 

Modi and Shah showed enormous guts to remove 370A.. and we would only gain from moving on as a country.. 

No lives and funds are wasted to maintain a claim , as mintaining PoK is ours or not is not changing any ground realities across the LoC. Saying it isn’t gonna make Pakistani our friends or them to stop selling guns to terrorists.

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3 hours ago, veer said:

Now that J n K is India's control territory and with all separatist welcome to join Pakistani land by moving across LOC we can have a firm control on terrorist activities.. all the funds gonna get cut off as well so you may think it's a dumb idea but it could be one of those ideas that Modi Sarkar may be thinking...

Now ? It’s always been Indian controlled territory . Making a state into a UT or vice versa doesn’t change control by sovereign power or default power in the land. We have no more or no less firm control of the LoC due to Kashmir’s status change. It’s still identically militarized zone.

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10 hours ago, Autonomous said:

China's interest and investment in GB is huge. KKH itself is massive

What are you talking man? China wants BRI sucess, It doesn’t necessarily oppose BRI to point of war,  even if it goes via India or India doesn’t allows it.

Edited by mishra

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