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Khota

PCB is more progressive than BCCI

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A good move but it was also due to reasons

  • Sarfraz lack of runs, with kohli thats hardly an issue
  • Loosing to SL at home and being inconsistent all over. We are a damn consistent side and pretty much wins 80% of games so when 20% losses happen which may as well be important they get the benefit of winning 80% games. 

 

As of now kohli will atleast remain the captain till next t20 wc , if he looses that which im quite sure we will and rohit wins another IPL thats when it will be pressure on kohli. As of now what best can happen is Ganguly appoints a strong guy like kumble or gambhir as team director on these ppl head 

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33 minutes ago, Vilander said:

pcb did this because they have Chockaa Chockaa , if they had Kohli they would made him their Prime Minister. 

Of all the cricket nations, Pakistan is the one that is perpetually infatuated with the "great leader" syndrome - forever looking for the next Imran Khan to take them to glory.   If PCB was "progressive" they would have never made a limited player like Sarfraz captain in the first place.  For the last few years now, Sarfraz has been a drag on his own team from an individual player perspective, but the copy-cat PCB attempted to fashion a Dhoni out of 'choka-choka' and the CT win against "Endia" cemented him for 2 years longer than he otherwise would have had.  

 

Just because Kohli's captaincy flaws are obvious and irksome, doesn't magically make PCB's decisions any good.  

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A move out of desperation by PCB, losing to SL's 4th string side at home must have been painful.  

 

However we should have 3 captains in the 3 formats, logical way to go about things in the packed calendar we see these days. One of the rare occasions I agree with Khota. 

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5 hours ago, Khota said:

Congratulations to Pakistan for their board taking a bold decision to split captaincy for Tests and shorter formats. BCCI is harming Indian cricket by making Kohli the arrogant as captain of all three formats. 

https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/27870285/sarfaraz-ahmed-sacked-pakistan-test-t20i-captain

Out of curiosity how is Kohli harming Indian cricket. He took over odi captaincy in 2017 and only led Indian in two ICC cups and has skipped all other minor tournaments.

 

What is this facination of hating Kohli? any particular reason?

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45 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Out of curiosity how is Kohli harming Indian cricket. He took over odi captaincy in 2017 and only led Indian in two ICC cups and has skipped all other minor tournaments.

 

What is this facination of hating Kohli? any particular reason?

Not hating - he ain’t a good captain

 

anger issues- see two or three demerit points 

 

strategy - quite poor . He was responsible for number 4-5 issue in wc - likes old players for unclear reasons ( daddy dhoni syndrome ) 

 

no long term plan inspite of having a fearsome attack he can’t develop other odi powerhitters and stable middle order 

 

as a batter he is v good and no comparison but as a captain he is the worst I have seen in odi , avg in tests . 
 

most disappointing trait is not able to learn from mistakes - 

 

 

 

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26 minutes ago, mani sha said:

Not hating - he ain’t a good captain

 

anger issues- see two or three demerit points 

 

strategy - quite poor . He was responsible for number 4-5 issue in wc - likes old players for unclear reasons ( daddy dhoni syndrome ) 

 

no long term plan inspite of having a fearsome attack he can’t develop other odi powerhitters and stable middle order 

 

as a batter he is v good and no comparison but as a captain he is the worst I have seen in odi , avg in tests . 
 

most disappointing trait is not able to learn from mistakes - 

 

 

 

He made the attack fearsome, so stop claiming as if attack was fearsome before him.He is the captain who is responsible for this attack.

 

How can you have long term planning  when you are captain of the odi side since last two years.Even then he kicked out two of his main spinners and brought in Kulcha after CT 2017 debacle.It is not his fault that his batsmen cannot bowl and bowlers cannot bat.He had to bring in Jadeja to get some balance.

 

No4 , what were his options since 2017.

 

He had long term planning in tests so invested heavily in Pandya and Rahul but they did not click.They gave Shaw his debut , it is not his fault Shaw got injured and then got suspended.Mayank made his debut under him.He is captain not a miracle worker.

 

He has highest winning percentage in odis and tests, the only thing is he has not won in two ICC cups. I don't understand  what is it you guys expect him to do.He leads from the front and has made this team the fittest it has ever been, what else do you want from any captain.

 

The only blemish I can find is axing Pant but other than that I don't see anything wrong with his captaincy.He is making this team compete in every match.

 

Show me one captain who had great strategy all the time , I will show a matches where they looked lost.

Edited by putrevus

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2 hours ago, putrevus said:

Out of curiosity how is Kohli harming Indian cricket. He took over odi captaincy in 2017 and only led Indian in two ICC cups and has skipped all other minor tournaments.

 

What is this facination of hating Kohli? any particular reason?

There is no hate. Underperforming is the issue here.

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1 hour ago, putrevus said:

He made the attack fearsome, so stop claiming as if attack was fearsome before him.He is the captain who is responsible for this attack.

 

How can you have long term planning  when you are captain of the odi side since last two years.Even then he kicked out two of his main spinners and brought in Kulcha after CT 2017 debacle.It is not his fault that his batsmen cannot bowl and bowlers cannot bat.He had to bring in Jadeja to get some balance.

 

No4 , what were his options since 2017.

 

He had long term planning in tests so invested heavily in Pandya and Rahul but they did not click.They gave Shaw his debut , it is not his fault Shaw got injured and then got suspended.Mayank made his debut under him.He is captain not a miracle worker.

 

He has highest winning percentage in odis and tests, the only thing is he has not won in two ICC cups. I don't understand  what is it you guys expect him to do.He leads from the front and has made this team the fittest it has ever been, what else do you want from any captain.

 

The only blemish I can find is axing Pant but other than that I don't see anything wrong with his captaincy.He is making this team compete in every match.

 

Show me one captain who had great strategy all the time , I will show a matches where they looked lost.

Did he handpick Shami,Umesh,Bhuvi,Bumrah or even Pandya?

 

For the matter of fact neither did Dhoni. However they all debuted under him

 

It just so happened there was a huge cultural shift in how pace bowlers were coming up through the ranks and thanks to IPL in a lot of ways for giving these guys a platform and exposure. Selectors were picking them and a lot of credit to guys like Sekhar and even Arun who is probably the best of the coaching lot we have.

 

Kohli is just at the right place at the right time. tell me this, why did he play 2 spinners in the CT final when Pak plays spin well and we had the most fearsome fast bowling attack in the tournament?

 

Why did he drop Shami for Bhuvi or drop Bhuvi on green tracks?

 

Sometimes there is no pattern to his selections which shows he is clueless.

 

The guys who deserve praise for this cultural shift in India producing fast bowlers are MRF Academy, Dennis Lillee,TA Sekhar, Saurav Ganguly,Rahul Dravid,John Wright,Greg Chappell, IPL,Bharat Arun and dare I say Duncan Fletcher who has backed express fast bowlers right since his England stint.

 

Despite the atrocious records we saw Yadav,Aaron,Shami come through the ranks in his tenure and willing to bowl fast and hell even Ishant had a resurgence where he found his pace back.

 

 

Edited by maniac

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28 minutes ago, maniac said:

 

The guys who deserve praise for this cultural shift in India producing fast bowlers are MRF Academy, Dennis Lillee,TA Sekhar, Saurav Ganguly,Rahul Dravid,John Wright,Greg Chappell, IPL,Bharat Arun and dare I say Duncan Fletcher who has backed express fast bowlers right since his England stint

++

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Kohl has done his bit as a fast bowlers captain he often says stuff that resonates with fast bowling fans the way he celebrates their success the way he speaks of their pace and place in the sides victories is far far ahead of someone like Dhoni who celebrated accurate trundlers and looked down upon Umesh and Aaron almost with disgust. 

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Well reason I am calling PCB progressive is they could have given everything to Babar but they did not. That is progressive.

10 hours ago, Vilander said:

pcb did this because they have Chockaa Chockaa , if they had Kohli they would made him their Prime Minister. 

 

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One thing I have observed, the Pak team got to play 5 ODIs before the wc in England. Now they are playing a T20 series in Aus later this year with the WT20 being in Aus.

 

Its a different debate that it may not benefit them and they will still suck but seriously, how are they getting such good FTP’s ?

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44 minutes ago, maniac said:

One thing I have observed, the Pak team got to play 5 ODIs before the wc in England. Now they are playing a T20 series in Aus later this year with the WT20 being in Aus.

 

Its a different debate that it may not benefit them and they will still suck but seriously, how are they getting such good FTP’s ?

Must be the new administration, the new Khan guy.

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14 hours ago, Vilander said:

Kohl has done his bit as a fast bowlers captain he often says stuff that resonates with fast bowling fans the way he celebrates their success the way he speaks of their pace and place in the sides victories is far far ahead of someone like Dhoni who celebrated accurate trundlers and looked down upon Umesh and Aaron almost with disgust. 

Not only should Virat be credited with backing fast bowlers, he deserves appreciation for backing the bowlers period.  As soon as he became test captain, he went to a 5 bowler XI early and often.  Correctly recognizing that the way to win test matches was to take 20 wickets.  This in of itself is a big deal to me.  For decades Indian captains have chosen 6 batsmen regardless of conditions.  

 

BUT, Virat's on-field captaincy, tactical choices, and really flawed selection mindset should also be called out.  

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17 hours ago, maniac said:

Did he handpick Shami,Umesh,Bhuvi,Bumrah or even Pandya?

 

For the matter of fact neither did Dhoni. However they all debuted under him

 

It just so happened there was a huge cultural shift in how pace bowlers were coming up through the ranks and thanks to IPL in a lot of ways for giving these guys a platform and exposure. Selectors were picking them and a lot of credit to guys like Sekhar and even Arun who is probably the best of the coaching lot we have.

 

Kohli is just at the right place at the right time. tell me this, why did he play 2 spinners in the CT final when Pak plays spin well and we had the most fearsome fast bowling attack in the tournament?

 

Why did he drop Shami for Bhuvi or drop Bhuvi on green tracks?

 

Sometimes there is no pattern to his selections which shows he is clueless.

 

The guys who deserve praise for this cultural shift in India producing fast bowlers are MRF Academy, Dennis Lillee,TA Sekhar, Saurav Ganguly,Rahul Dravid,John Wright,Greg Chappell, IPL,Bharat Arun and dare I say Duncan Fletcher who has backed express fast bowlers right since his England stint.

 

Despite the atrocious records we saw Yadav,Aaron,Shami come through the ranks in his tenure and willing to bowl fast and hell even Ishant had a resurgence where he found his pace back.

 

 

Did Ganguly hand pick any  Indian players, Bhajji, Sehwag and VVS all of them debuted for India in either odis or tests long before he was captain.He was the captain who gave them confidence so they could perform at international level.Thats why those players still hold him in high regard.

 

India is not Pakistan where guy like Javed picks Wasim Akram based on some trials.India has very good domestic structure where talented players are gromed from early stages.

 

Dhoni was captain in 2014 in England series, he ran Bhuvi and Ishant into ground after first two tests. Ishant was injured and the other one was never the same for next two years.

 

MRF has existed for more than 25 years and it is Kohli who has given new lease to guys like Shami, Umesh.

 

Ishant was starting to turn around in 2013 but Shami and Yadav have bowled the best under Kohli as he know how to extract the best out of them.He picked Bumrah over Ishant in SA.Even Ishant has bowled the best under Kohli.

 

This is the  fittest group of Indian fast bowlers, and Kohli is responsible for the that change in attitude.He does not overbowl fast bowler on helpful pitches nor he neglects them on Indian pitches.Ian Chappell did not create Dennis Lillee but Lillee rates him the best captain for one reason he knew how to handle him the best.

 

Kohli kicked out Ashwin and jadeja from team and went with totally unknowns in Kulcha after CT 2017 debacle.What else do you need froma captain.droping Shami is world cup semis was not a mistake, Bhuvi did just fine in that match.It is not Kohli's fault that the batsmen in his team cannot even roll their arms and bowlers cannot bat. Jadeja was brought back to lend some balance, everyone wanted him to nowhere near the world cup squad.It is not Kohli's fault Dhawan got hurt or Shaw got hurt.

 

 

Every captain makes moves based on what he thinks will win him the match.He can be wrong sometimes, it is easy to be MMQB. The great Gary Kirsten who somehow is regarded as greatest coach around here picked the great Jaidev Unadkt over Umesh Yadav in SA.

 

One man is responsible for pace attack being a force in Indian cricket and that man is Kohli.

 

 

 

Edited by putrevus

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3 minutes ago, sandeep said:

Not only should Virat be credited with backing fast bowlers, he deserves appreciation for backing the bowlers period.  As soon as he became test captain, he went to a 5 bowler XI early and often.  Correctly recognizing that the way to win test matches was to take 20 wickets.  This in of itself is a big deal to me.  For decades Indian captains have chosen 6 batsmen regardless of conditions.  

 

BUT, Virat's on-field captaincy, tactical choices, and really flawed selection mindset should also be called out.  

Virat backing the fast bowlers myth is a little overstated. He is better than Dhoni I will give him that. In India Ashwin-Jadeja run through line ups and our fast bowlers in India have always been good right from the days of Kapil Dev to

Srinath to Zak. I have seen even guys like Prasad and Pathan run through line ups on dry tracks at times at home.

 

However the upgrade we have now from those times  is that , Instead of 1 champion fast bowler we have 4-5 in our main squad and a lot more of them waiting in the wings.

 

The credit for this goes to the names I mentioned in the other post above.

 

Overseas with the bowling attack we have we should have won a lot more but we f’d up badly This was solely due to getting our team combos totally wrong . We have underachieved hugely and I hate this mentality that oh but we won 1 test here or one test there which we didn’t achieve before .

 

We should have absolutely steam rolled over the SA and Aus sides we played against and been more competitive in England. In fact should have won that series.

 

Now the only thing I like about Kohli’s captaincy is the 5 bowler strategy and I agree with you there.

 

In the past on flat tracks our top 6 would absolutely plunder but I have seen Kohli realizing that we need 5 bowlers and top 5+1 should be good enough on pattas which I give him credit for and he is very unselfish in his batting approach, so he is not without his merits but hailing him as a Clive Lloyd who revolutionized his country’s fast bowling is a bit too much which I hear a lot on this forum.

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1 hour ago, sandeep said:

Not only should Virat be credited with backing fast bowlers, he deserves appreciation for backing the bowlers period.  As soon as he became test captain, he went to a 5 bowler XI early and often.  Correctly recognizing that the way to win test matches was to take 20 wickets.  This in of itself is a big deal to me.  For decades Indian captains have chosen 6 batsmen regardless of conditions.  

 

BUT, Virat's on-field captaincy, tactical choices, and really flawed selection mindset should also be called out.  

to be fair to other captains 

 

  • sachin , sehwag, ganguly together use to do 5th bowlers job. Ganguly in 2007 eng tour did 5th bowler job very well 
  • its was very diff to drop any batsman in that batting lineup as everyone owned a place which wasnt the case in last few years as no one got settled at 6
  • Ashwin n jadeja werent avl to them who gives more batting then kumble n bhajji....even bhuvi adds something. When dhoni had ashwin jadeja he played 5 bowlers at home 
  • Dhoni played binny in england, irfan was played by kumble n dravid as all rounder, bangar was played by ganguly.......consistently they cudt coz of the factors above 

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7 hours ago, maniac said:

Overseas with the bowling attack we have we should have won a lot more but we f’d up badly This was solely due to getting our team combos totally wrong . We have underachieved hugely and I hate this mentality that oh but we won 1 test here or one test there which we didn’t achieve before .

 

Benching Bhuvi and Rahane in SA was indefensible.  Benching Pujara in England up front was also similarly inexcusable.  I was in India for T1.D1 of that SA tour and remember as if it was yesterday when SA were at 12/3 thanks to Bhuvi.  That test was setup for us to win.  But then thigh-slapper dropped what would have been Bhuvi's 5th wicket, and we let SA escape to another 100 runs north, and end up losing a test we should have won.  Exact same story in that 1st test against England, where that little blond twerp Sam Curran came in and took that test from us.  And Kohli chose to play Dhawan and KLPD ahead of ChePu - we fell 30 runs short.  If India win that 1st test in England, the entire test series story changes.  Lords wouldn't have been a desperation scenario requiring that Kuldeep gamble.  And even with that lop-sided weather-inflicted loss, it still would have come down to the deciding test.  

 

Both the SA and Eng tours were golden opportunities missed.  I'm especially salty because I sincerely believed that we would win 2 out of the 3 away tours to SA, Eng, and Aus.  Virat is substantially responsible for those Eng and SA losses.

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7 hours ago, maniac said:

but hailing him as a Clive Lloyd who revolutionized his country’s fast bowling is a bit too much which I hear a lot on this forum.

That's that Indian 'hero-worship' gene kicking in.  Chamcha giri and lionizing 'stars' comes quite naturally to desis.

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PCB is neither progressive nor proactive. It's rather reactive.  Removing a consistently  nonperforming captain (who does not even merit a place in the squad) is not considered as Progressive. BCCI, despite its loopholes is way more professional than PCB, when it comes to decision making. 

Edited by Frustrated

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2 hours ago, Frustrated said:

PCB is neither progressive nor proactive. It's rather reactive.  Removing a consistently  nonperforming captain (who does not even merit a place in the squad) is not considered as Progressive. BCCI, despite its loopholes is way more professional than PCB, when it comes to decision making. 

Sometimes I wonder. Shastri as a coach and Kohli worship with two losses. I am not so sure.

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On 10/19/2019 at 4:07 AM, maniac said:

Did he handpick Shami,Umesh,Bhuvi,Bumrah or even Pandya?

 

For the matter of fact neither did Dhoni. However they all debuted under him

 

It just so happened there was a huge cultural shift in how pace bowlers were coming up through the ranks and thanks to IPL in a lot of ways for giving these guys a platform and exposure. Selectors were picking them and a lot of credit to guys like Sekhar and even Arun who is probably the best of the coaching lot we have.

 

Kohli is just at the right place at the right time. tell me this, why did he play 2 spinners in the CT final when Pak plays spin well and we had the most fearsome fast bowling attack in the tournament?

 

Why did he drop Shami for Bhuvi or drop Bhuvi on green tracks?

 

Sometimes there is no pattern to his selections which shows he is clueless.

 

The guys who deserve praise for this cultural shift in India producing fast bowlers are MRF Academy, Dennis Lillee,TA Sekhar, Saurav Ganguly,Rahul Dravid,John Wright,Greg Chappell, IPL,Bharat Arun and dare I say Duncan Fletcher who has backed express fast bowlers right since his England stint.

 

Despite the atrocious records we saw Yadav,Aaron,Shami come through the ranks in his tenure and willing to bowl fast and hell even Ishant had a resurgence where he found his pace back.

 

 

He went all out to back them. Sami got injured then failed fitness then domestic issues yet was brought back at first instance. Kohli is horses for courses per, I don't agree with him but that's who he is. 

 

On topic even Pakistani don't think pcb is better than bcci. I recently saw umar Akmal with shezad in t20. They have cheats like amir and now butt is trying to come back. Selector /chairman is one. He is player coach in psl. No concept of conflict of interest. 

I'll take msk as bcci head for next 5yrs than pcb. 

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26 minutes ago, Khota said:

Sometimes I wonder. Shastri as a coach and Kohli worship with two losses. I am not so sure.

Bringing in 'out of touch' Oldies like Shahzad and Umar Akmal. That too for a t20 series against a SL C team, is something , even BCCI may not contemplate.  LOL

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11 hours ago, Khota said:

This was the correct decision.

 

11 hours ago, Shaukat said:

So You still wanted to hang on to sarfaraz ? Clownery

They should have switched captains when we played Sri-Lanka. Giving new captains the assignment of Australia is harsh. The new captains themselves have there problems. Like in Azhar’s case we have already seen his captaincy its terrible. For the last two years he has not been performing well. So basically we replaced a non performing captain with another who has equally the worse captaincy. In Babar Azam’s case we see a unexperienced captain who has a personality of a dud. He is our best batsmen, with the added pressure of captaincy we are putting his focus away from batting. Which means he is bound to fail in his primary job. Not to mention how the guy already stated he has no interest in captaincy. 

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23 minutes ago, Shaz1 said:

 

They should have switched captains when we played Sri-Lanka. Giving new captains the assignment of Australia is harsh. The new captains themselves have there problems. Like in Azhar’s case we have already seen his captaincy its terrible. For the last two years he has not been performing well. So basically we replaced a non performing captain with another who has equally the worse captaincy. In Babar Azam’s case we see a unexperienced captain who has a personality of a dud. He is our best batsmen, with the added pressure of captaincy we are putting his focus away from batting. Which means he is bound to fail in his primary job. Not to mention how the guy already stated he has no interest in captaincy. 

You are missing the point. Atleast PCB has taken a bold decision whereas we still worship Kohli for non performance.

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On 10/20/2019 at 7:57 AM, Khota said:

You are missing the point. Atleast PCB has taken a bold decision whereas we still worship Kohli for non performance.

The bold decision PCB took is not a great one. 

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There was nothing wrong in benching Rahane, what did he do in England. The second test in SA was played on a pitch  which suited Bhuvi the least.Ishant was the best Indian bowler in the test.Bumrah was still not Bumrah for first two tests.

 

Nor there was anything wrong in benching Pujara for first test in England , he was awful in county cricket leading upto the series.  Both series were not lost due to bad selections but due to their bad openers and inability of other batsmen to step up.People just assume things that guy like Rahane would have scored in SA and Pujara in England.Bumrah was hurt for first two tests and Bhuvi was not aviaiable .People need stop living in lala land and understand the reality more.

 

They need more batsmen to stand up in those tour but no one did  and openers were worse than tailenders.Pandya was another guy who addded very little.You saw how one good opener can change the fortunes of the team in Australia .

 

If Pandya was playing in WI who knows what would have happened there, Vihari saved India from collapsing in all four innings.India needs to play six batsmen till they start scoring consistently on away tours.

 

If Bhuvi develops little bit of his batting.Then Jadeja with Bhuvi along with Pant should solve the allrounder slot.You still can play with four legimate fast bowlers on all away pitches.It would be far better than Pandya taking up one spot.

Edited by putrevus

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