Muharram gatherings of Shia Muslims ... how religious are they?

[Alam_dar]

I don't know how  many Shias are in India, or if normal Indians know about them, but in Pakistan their presence is strongly felt. Especially, during the month of Muharram, when they come out in processions and do weaping and Matam (self beating). 

 

The biggest religious gathering was in Kumbh Mela (India), where 30 Million pilgrims took part in one day. 

 

But the biggest "annual" religious gathering is in Karbala (Iraq), where about 25 million pilgrims took part this year. (Whole population of Iraq is 35 million). It is many times bigger religious gathering than Hajj (which has only 3 million pilgrims).  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arba'een_Pilgrimage

 

The biggest feature of this gathering is the "March on foot". About 10 million pilgrims (including women and children) take part in this foot march from Kufa to Karbala (80 km) every year. This distance is covered in 4 days. Iraqi people serve these millions of pilgrims free of cost. It covers all the eating and staying at nights. Iraqi people kiss the feet of the pilgrims and  polish the shoes of these pilgrims and give them massages. Iraqi Shias are poor people. They gather money whole of year only in order to give it away during this gathering. 

Due to this, Iraqi people are rated as the most guest-friendly people in the world (BBC News). 

 

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Now coming to my main question.... i.e. how deeply religious are Shia Muslims? 

 

I believe that despite huge religious displays in Muharram gatherings, still Shia Muslims are not very religious. They are more like Sufi Muslims i.e. very much harmless for others. Although there are Shias too who try to follow Islamic Sharia too (like the Wahabi Muslims), and that makes them dangerous too.

 

In short words, I feel that present Iranian Mullah government tends to follow the Sharia Islam, while the Iranian People are traditional Shias and they don't follow the Sharia teachings. Due to this, there is a tussle (huge tussle) between Iranian Mullah government and normal Iranian Shias.  

 

I got the chance to attend couple of times Shia religious gatherings along with my Shia friends. Their immense sorrow for Hussain, where they start weeping ... I felt it is perhaps the most strongest form of religious intoxication. 

Edited October 20, 2019 by Alam_dar

[coffee_rules]

Can they convert? Like Shia to Sunni and vice a versa?

[Alam_dar]

3 hours ago, Under_Score said:

@Alam_dar My question is slightly off-topic, do the Imams or Maulvis in Islam urge Muslims to have as many kids as possible for the growth & spread of Islam? 

I personally feel that they can have as many kids as they want in their Islamic countries, but if they have moved & settled in non-Islamic countries then they should stop breeding like rabbits if they can't afford to take care of their kids with their OWN money, NOT some 'Bheek' welfare checks, is that not 'Haram' in Islam? 

Yes,  while there is a Prophetic Tradition in which Muhammad asked the Muslims to produce as many kids as possible so that Muhammad become proud of great numbers of his Muslim Ummah. 

 

Therefore, Mullahs are telling Muslims to not to use condoms, and they have declared that Family Planning is HARAM. 

 

Mullahs especially urge the Muslims in the West to produce more and more kids, as it is their duty to overcome the local population in numbers and then impose the Islamic Sharia in the land. This is a clear plan without any doubts. 

 

As far as poverty is concerned, then there is another prophetic tradition which is telling Muslims that it is Allah who brings life in form of child on the earth, and it is Allah who will provide him with his sustenance. 

 

Today we see thousands of kids are dying due to hunger and no proper medical treatment. But still Muslims are so much brainwashed that they deny it, and then they put the whole blame upon the government. According to them, Allah has fulfilled his promise of providing the means of sustenance, but since Muslim Governments are not following Islamic Sharia 100%, therefore due to their inability, they are becoming cause of death of children due to hunger. 

 

Ground reality is this that only Ultra Religious Muslims are following it, while normal Muslim families are compelled to follow the family planning at one stage or another due to the limited resources, or due to the health of the mother. That is why birth rate among Muslims has dropped a lot. 

[Alam_dar]

35 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

Can they convert? Like Shia to Sunni and vice a versa?

Yes, earlier there was a lot of conversion. 

 

But today Wahabi Islam has overtaken the Sunni Islam, after which Shias have been declared Kafirs. Therefore there is a lot of hatred today among Shias and Wahabis and seldom any conversion is taking place. 

 

Traditional Sufi Sunnis are open minded though and they attend the Shia gatherings and mourn Karbala. They and Shias live peacefully with each other, but this is not possible with Wahabi type Muslims.

[Mariyam]

@Alam_dar

 

I don't understand your question. If they are at a Muharram gathering, they would be religious.

That is why they are at the gathering in the first place.

 

If you were to pay for air fare/match tickets and travel all the way to England to watch the world cup, it is fair to say that you're a cricket fan.

[Muloghonto]

If you have to ask, how religious are are the people, who will go out and beat themselves up literally and draw their own blood, all because they failed to protect the great great grandson of someone dude who represents Skygod from 1500 years ago, you must be a special case of stupid. 

[Norman]

8 hours ago, Muloghonto said:

If you have to ask, how religious are are the people, who will go out and beat themselves up literally and draw their own blood, all because they failed to protect the great great grandson of someone dude who represents Skygod from 1500 years ago, you must be a special case of stupid. 

 

[velu]

@Alam_dar  do you hate shias ?  

true arab muslims ( remove Lebanese , Jordanians , Palestinians , kurds , north africans )   are far more religious when compared  to other muslims  ..

 

you padosis hate us and love our muslims , but happily ignore chinese atrocities agsinst ughur muslims  

[Ranvir]

On 10/20/2019 at 3:08 AM, Under_Score said:

@Alam_dar My question is slightly off-topic, do the Imams or Maulvis in Islam urge Muslims to have as many kids as possible for the growth & spread of Islam? 

I personally feel that they can have as many kids as they want in their Islamic countries, but if they have moved & settled in non-Islamic countries then they should stop breeding like rabbits if they can't afford to take care of their kids with their OWN money, NOT some 'Bheek' welfare checks, is that not 'Haram' in Islam? 

Muslims in Britain have a minimum of 3 kids on average. Even the ones born and raised here have 3. It is a ticking time bomb.

[Mariyam]

19 hours ago, Muloghonto said:

If you have to ask, how religious are are the people, who will go out and beat themselves up literally and draw their own blood, all because they failed to protect the great great grandson of someone dude who represents Skygod from 1500 years ago, you must be a special case of stupid. 

Grandson.

[Alam_dar]

On 10/21/2019 at 7:09 AM, Mariyam said:

@Alam_dar

 

I don't understand your question. If they are at a Muharram gathering, they would be religious.

That is why they are at the gathering in the first place.

 

If you were to pay for air fare/match tickets and travel all the way to England to watch the world cup, it is fair to say that you're a cricket fan.

I am sorry I was unable to make my point clear. Let me try once again.

 

There is one thing known as RELIGION, while there is another thing known as TRADITION.

 

Following "Religion of Islam" means following the Islamic Sharia, it's laws, it's teachings. 

While following a Tradition is different thing.

For example, Sufis could not be called deeply religious Muslims, while they follow traditions more than Islamic Sharia. 

While Wahabis/Deobandia are deeply religious Muslims who follow Islamic Sharia closely. 

 

Majority of Shias are like Sufis i.e. Traditional Muslims. They are not following Islamic Sharia closely. 

 

Their weeping and even beating is only out of Love of Hussain, and not due to Islamic Sharia. Eventually, many Sunnis and also Pakistani Hindus and even prostitutes of Diamond Market of Lahore also have immense love for Hussain. Therefore, these Sunnis and Pakistani Hindus and even Prostitutes are taking part in the Muharram ceremonies and they are also weeping at the miseries of Hussain and his family out of love. 

 

In Iraq, even Yazidi Kurds and Arab Christians participate in the foot march to Karbala, although they are non-Muslims. 

 

===

 

I just hope I am making some sense regarding this issue of being Religious Shia or being a Traditional Shia.

 

This issue becomes very important while Iranian Government represents this "Religious Shia Islam", while the majority of Iranian people are simply traditional Shias, who don't want Hijab or other Sharia Rulings. Ultimately, there will be clashes in Iran sooner or later while people have nose full of Iran being an Islamic Republic and Mullahs ruling them. 

 

Gandhi was following Hindu religion, but still he was not deeply religious. He wanted Secular Indian laws instead of old Hindu religious laws. Same is about traditional Shias, who want to commemorate Muharram gatherings, but want Secular Modern laws instead of Sharia. 

[Alam_dar]

9 hours ago, velu said:

@Alam_dar  do you hate shias ?  

 

I love Shias as they distribute a lot of tasty Tabarruk (Parsad) after their gatherings. I often joined them happily in their gatherings saying loud "Ya Hussain", and afterwards did full justice with Haleem and Kheer (sweet rice pudding) 

 

I have some close Shia friends too since my childhood. 

It is a common perception in Pakistan that Shia girls are very pretty. 

 

Actually, we have to open a separate thread about the Persian beauty. 

 

Quote

true arab muslims ( remove Lebanese , Jordanians , Palestinians , kurds , north africans )   are far more religious when compared  to other muslims  ..

Syrian under Basharat-ul-Assad are also very liberal. Sadly, this beautiful country was destroyed by the Jihadi Muslim brotherhood.  Also secular Turkey is being destroyed by Erdogan. 

 

Quote

you padosis hate us and love our muslims , but happily ignore chinese atrocities agsinst ughur muslims  

Exactly. 

It is unfortunate that modern world is still ruled by "Might is Right". 

Edited October 22, 2019 by Alam_dar

[Mariyam]

@Alam_dar

 

Tradition in general is a result of an interpretation of religion. Can't treat these as two different entities. While they may not completely over lap, but tradition and religion have a huge over lap. And they continue to influence one another. Tradition and religion (to a lesser degree) are never in statis.

[Alam_dar]

22 minutes ago, Mariyam said:

@Alam_dar

 

Tradition in general is a result of an interpretation of religion. Can't treat these as two different entities. While they may not completely over lap, but tradition and religion have a huge over lap. And they continue to influence one another. Tradition and religion (to a lesser degree) are never in statis.

I agree with all that you wrote about relationship between religion and tradition. 

 

Nevertheless, on the political level, this difference becomes vital. 

 

Among Sunni Muslims, we have Sufis and Wahabis. The difference between them got so great that Wahabis hate Sufis even more than Shias and even Hindus. 

 

Same is the case seem to be among Shias. 

 

There are now "Taqleedi Shias" (Shariati Shia) and then there are "Malang Shias" (traditional Shias). I don't know about India,  but in Pakistan there is now a big enmity and hatred between these two Shia groups. They are not attending Majalis of each other. They curse each other. 

 

Ultimately, we will see an internal war in Iran too due to this difference. 

 

 

[Mariyam]

@Alam_dar

 

In India, things are a little bit different. There is no open animosity within a sect. But the identity still remains strong. For eg The Dawoodi Bohras and the Ismaili Khojas do not think of themselves as a sub sect of Shiism, though they are classified as such.

I do not like to use the term Wahabi. Instead I would say Salafis (recent phenomenon) and followers of various Sufi strains are at loggerheads ideologically. But this hasn't resulted in any real societal level fracture. At least not yet, and not on a big scale.

[Vilander]

On 10/20/2019 at 2:05 AM, Under_Score said:

I appreciate your honest response, I had no clue Mullahs do this.....This is a mockery of hard working tax payers here in the west. 

Now what do you feel about liberal govt that just got elected.