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Role of Bharat Arun in Indian bowling becoming very good


putrevus

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Ashwin credited for his resurgence after the work he put in during Australian tour in 2014 .He is overseeing the resurgence of Umesh, Shami and Ishant.Look that seam position of Yadav.His understanding of Bumrah and not fiddling with this action but trying to make him stronger.

 

This guy has done wonders with Indian bowlers.He should be given lot of credit for this turn around.He is helping spinners too.

 

The likes of Mohammed Siraj, Khaleel Ahmed, Shardul Thakur and so on have spoken about how Arun remains approachable for any query they have got about their game.

 

Ravi Shastri fought for this man against when Sachin, Ganguly and VVS wanted Zak to be the bowling coach.Arun is proving Shastri correct so far.

Edited by putrevus
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16 minutes ago, putrevus said:

But people are saying Shastri is useless?Kohli is a egotistical maniac  who is bane for Indian cricket.

You have again lost it, people say it as he lost badly in England and just won a dead rubber in SA and the sorrow which we fans carry is mostly due to his losses in KOs of Icc events

But on a different note ,not taking away any credit from Bharat Arun, don't drag him alongside the failures like Shastri

Edited by Suhaan
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6 minutes ago, Suhaan said:

You have again lost it, people say it as he lost badly in England and just won a dead rubber in SA and the sorrow which we fans carry is mostly due to his losses in KOs of Icc events

But on a different note ,not taking away any credit from Bharat Arun, don't drag him alongside the failures like Shastri

Bharat Arun and Shastri are interlinked, they are part of the TM which has played the role in resurgance of the fast bowling in India.It is Shastri who identfied Arun to be his bowling coach and stuck to his guns when so called experts (Sachin and co) tried to force Zaheer on him.

 

How did he lose badly in England , have you seen how SA  perform this series or England in Australia last time they toured there. You need to have the players to win too and to get those players to perform to the winning overseas level takes time as they need to weed out non performers.Every fan wants team to win but team also should have players capable of winning the matches.

 

Carrying sorrow does not mean abusing one guy who is doing what noone has done in history of Indian cricket.India has  a captain who is making sure Indian team is competing every match they play irrespective of the location.

 

To win ICC events you need some luck too. WI was the still the best team in 1980s but they never won worldcup during 1980s. 

 

 

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11 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Bharat Arun and Shastri are interlinked, they are part of the TM which has played the role in resurgance of the fast bowling in India.It is Shastri who identfied Arun to be his bowling coach and stuck to his guns when so called experts (Sachin and co) tried to force Zaheer on him.

Aruns work is his not shastris all credit to him.

 

To his credit Shastri did make sure he got Arun instead of Zak( we do not know what Zak would have done). 

 

 

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1 hour ago, putrevus said:

But people are saying Shastri is useless?Kohli is a egotistical maniac  who is bane for Indian cricket.

Kohli has been a brilliant Test captain ever since he took up captaincy from Dhoni when the latter retired in the middle of a Test series in Australia.

I don't think his credentials as captain of the Test team has ever been questioned.

 

But Kohli the limited overs captain has some major shortcomings - that is where people question his ego and even suggest split captaincy (Rohit for LOIs and Kohli for Tests)

 

Some obvious things that come to mind reg his LOI captaincy:

1. Constantly defying weakness in the middle order. Hogging all runs even in useless matches among the top 3 and not giving enough exposure to the middle order

2. Never letting anyone stabilize at a position. Tried some 10 players for the No. 4 spot and still not being able find one player for the spot

3. Chopping and churning - he backed Rayudu and Jadhav for 2 years (which itself is questionable), and suddenly benched both of them and brought in Pant and Shankar for the WC when each of them had played less than 10 ODIs

4. Playing four wicketkeepers in the all-important semi-final was laughable

5. Not being able to win even one IPL title. almost always finishing in the bottom half

6. Last but not the least, looking visibly weak in decision making on the field, and deferring to Dhoni/Rohit for most on-field calls.

 

 

Edited by bowl_out
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35 minutes ago, Vilander said:

Aruns work is his not shastris all credit to him.

 

To his credit Shastri did make sure he got Arun instead of Zak( we do not know what Zak would have done). 

 

 

Agreed Arun needs to get credit for his work .It is not about Zak , it is about Shastri feeling more comfortable with Arun so he went with Arun.

 

Samething there may be 100 different coaches who are better than Shastri but you hire the person Kohli is comfortable working.Shastri is that guy.It is not like Kohli did not have choice.

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33 minutes ago, bowl_out said:

Kohli has been a brilliant Test captain ever since he took up captaincy from Dhoni when the latter retired in the middle of a Test series in Australia.

I don't think his credentials as captain of the Test team has ever been questioned.

 

But Kohli the limited overs captain has some major shortcomings - that is where people question his ego and even suggest split captaincy (Rohit for LOIs and Kohli for Tests)

 

Some obvious things that come to mind reg his LOI captaincy:

1. Constantly defying weakness in the middle order. Hogging all runs even in useless matches among the top 3 and not giving enough exposure to the middle order

2. Never letting anyone stabilize at a position. Tried some 10 players for the No. 4 spot and still not being able find one player for the spot

3. Chopping and churning - he backed Rayudu and Jadhav for 2 years (which itself is questionable), and suddenly benched both of them and brought in Pant and Shankar for the WC when each of them had played less than 10 ODIs

4. Playing four wicketkeepers in the all-important semi-final was laughable

5. Not being able to win even one IPL title. almost always finishing in the bottom half

6. Last but not the least, looking visibly weak in decision making on the field, and deferring to Dhoni/Rohit for most on-field calls.

 

 

Kohli's credentials as captain any format should not be questioned period.You can question Kohli the batsman delivering in big spots but not his captaincy.

 

Who were his choices for middle order, remember he had one of most unbalanced odi squads.

 

When India travel abroad Indian test team also becomes very unbalanced as spinners who lend balance in India payway to seamers who cannot bat or bowl in case of Pandya other than his flukey spell.

 

He took over Odi captaincy in 2017 and why are people acting as if he since captaining since a decade.He needed to try Jadhav as he lent that balance. If Dhawan/Shankar were not injured there would not be soo many changes.Why are people forgetting those injuries.

 

That is people's perception who have nothing to do other than hate this guy.If he was weak in decision making why would he take so many bold decisions in tests.He was doing just fine without Rohit and Dhoni in test cricket. Using the experience of other players is not a weakness but strength of the captain.He is secure in his captaincy that he is able to heed any advice which  guy like Dhoni gives on the field.

 

The big negative thing about them is letting Dhoni bat at no7 in semi final and I have not heard any good explanation about it so far.Dhoni like a leech is running away from it too.

 

IPL and international cricket are different don't compare them.

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1 hour ago, putrevus said:

Kohli's credentials as captain any format should not be questioned period.You can question Kohli the batsman delivering in big spots but not his captaincy.

 

Who were his choices for middle order, remember he had one of most unbalanced odi squads.

 

When India travel abroad Indian test team also becomes very unbalanced as spinners who lend balance in India payway to seamers who cannot bat or bowl in case of Pandya other than his flukey spell.

 

He took over Odi captaincy in 2017 and why are people acting as if he since captaining since a decade.He needed to try Jadhav as he lent that balance. If Dhawan/Shankar were not injured there would not be soo many changes.Why are people forgetting those injuries.

 

That is people's perception who have nothing to do other than hate this guy.If he was weak in decision making why would he take so many bold decisions in tests.He was doing just fine without Rohit and Dhoni in test cricket. Using the experience of other players is not a weakness but strength of the captain.He is secure in his captaincy that he is able to heed any advice which  guy like Dhoni gives on the field.

 

The big negative thing about them is letting Dhoni bat at no7 in semi final and I have not heard any good explanation about it so far.Dhoni like a leech is running away from it too.

 

IPL and international cricket are different don't compare them.

 

I wouldn't bother talking about Tests in India or abroad since I mentioned and firmly believe that Kohli has done great in the format.

 

I have great respect and no hate for him, period... But that doesn't mean there is no room for improvement... And talking of LOIs, obviously there will be comparisons to IPL because it is a shorter format where other Indian captains have succeeded and Kohli hasn't.  And Kohli's team building style in both IPL and Limited overs international seems very similar and questionable at the same time.

 

Two most striking similarities between RCB and Indian LOI teams:

 

1. Strong openers and weak middle order.. The team wins if the openers do well, and fall like nine pins if they lost their openers early

 

2. Constant chopping and changing.. Yes, Dhawan and Shankar were injured. But that does not explain why he backed Rayudu/Jadhav for so long and suddenly let them go. If I remember correctly, DK's first match in the WC was the semi-final.. Pant hardly played any ODI cricket, was suddenly made No. 4, a position that probably doesn't even suit his batting style.. This despite Rayudu and Jadhav (the players he backed) being available for selection... If he didn't trust them, why back them for so long..

 

Dhoni is a leech who hid behind everybody at no. 7 and had Kohli's backing to do so.

 

Anyways, long story short, Kohli is on the path to becoming an ATG Test captain with his stellar Home record and Aus series win.. He has the potential to do well in ODIs as a captain as well, but he needs to change a few things with the way he operates as Limited overs captain.

 

Edited by bowl_out
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16 minutes ago, bowl_out said:

 

I wouldn't bother talking about Tests in India or abroad since I mentioned and firmly believe that Kohli has done great in the format.

 

I have great respect and no hate for him, period... But that doesn't mean there is no room for improvement... And talking of LOIs, obviously there will be comparisons to IPL because it is a shorter format where other Indian captains have succeeded and Kohli hasn't.  And Kohli's team building style in both IPL and Limited overs international seems very similar and questionable at the same time.

 

Two most striking similarities between RCB and Indian LOI teams:

 

1. Strong openers and weak middle order.. The team wins if the openers do well, and fall like nine pins if they lost their openers early

 

2. Constant chopping and changing.. Yes, Dhawan and Shankar were injured. But that does not explain why he backed Rayudu/Jadhav for so long and suddenly let them go. If I remember correctly, DK's first match in the WC was the semi-final.. Pant hardly played any ODI cricket, was suddenly made No. 4, a position that probably doesn't even suit his batting style.. This despite Rayudu and Jadhav (the players he backed) being available for selection... If he didn't trust them, why back them for so long..

 

Dhoni is a leech who hid behind everybody at no. 7 and had Kohli's backing to do so.

 

Anyways, long story short, Kohli is on the path to becoming an ATG Test captain with his stellar Home record and Aus series win.. He has the potential to do well in ODIs as a captain as well, but he needs to change a few things with the way he operates as Limited overs captain.

 

Did RCB win before Kohli became captain. Answer is no, so that is irrelvant to him being from him being Indian captain.

 

They had to back Jadhav for balance.Nobody could forsee him tuning into wuss at the right moment. What could  they do? where would you have given DK his first match.They had to win to top the group.

 

Yes Dhoni had Kohli's backing as Sachin had Dhoni's backing when he chose to play odis just for his 100th ton and then retire before CT 2013.That is the bane of Indian cricket players becoming bigger than the teams.

 

Noone is perfect, let us stop micromanaging and commenting on  his every move as if was a cardinal sin he has hunger to succeed and he got coach of his liking.He also knows he ultimately needs to win something big otherwise he has to go.More than his captaincy it is his batting which worries me in big spots.

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16 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Did RCB win before Kohli became captain. Answer is no, so that is irrelvant to him being from him being Indian captain.

 

They had to back Jadhav for balance.Nobody could forsee him tuning into wuss at the right moment. What could  they do? where would you have given DK his first match.They had to win to top the group.

 

Yes Dhoni had Kohli's backing as Sachin had Dhoni's backing when he chose to play odis just for his 100th ton and then retire before CT 2013.That is the bane of Indian cricket players becoming bigger than the teams.

 

Noone is perfect, let us stop micromanaging and commenting on  his every move as if was a cardinal sin he has hunger to succeed and he got coach of his liking.He also knows he ultimately needs to win something big otherwise he has to go.More than his captaincy it is his batting which worries me in big spots.

Stopping here, no point arguing on this.

Cardinal sin.. lol. Let's not exaggerate. Kohli is doing well, and can do better doesn't equal Cardinal sin. 

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Bharat Arun is doing a great job, especially with our fast bowlers.

 

For the first time in our history, we are seeing a bunch of Indian pacers combining pace with accuracy ball after ball and sustaining pressure from both ends.

 

And we are seeing them using the pitch like never before, as a group.  They are not floating the ball up but hitting the deck hard and extracting life out of most pitches. 

 

Arun must be doing a lot of things right.

 

And Kohli deserves a lot of credit for wanting to function with a bunch of quick bowlers, no matter where he is playing test matches. 

 

The best aspect of Kohli's captaincy is his usage and often choice of pacers in test matches. He likes 140+ pacers with control. ( But what happens to the same captain in LOIs ?  )

Edited by express bowling
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I am not sold on Bharat Arun. The best bowling coach that India had was the one operational around 2000-2005, under John Wright. Dont recall his name. 

Let me give a few reasons why I am not convinced about Arun -

 

How come bowlers like Khaleel have never bowled at their optimum pace, if he indeed is such a great coach?

How come a bowler like Umesh has been bowling fast medium under him?

What has Bharat Arun done to identify probable future pacers and steps to bridge them to international cricket? Zilch!

Why are we not trying out youngsers in meaningless matches?

 

I still think that the performance happening right now is majorly due to the players and their experience. Not taking everything away from Bharat. His contribution is about 30%. Kohli is to be given the credit along with the players.

 

Dont forget that our bowlers were bowling close to 150 around 2002-2003 period. That was quality. 

Compared to then, we have a pool of genuine quicks, and yet none of them have developed into a 155 k's bowler.

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