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How great was Dilip Vengsarkar at his best?Overall truly great?


Was Dilip Vengsarkar the best batsmen in the world at his peak?  

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  1. 1. Was Dilip Vengsarkar the best batsmen in the world at his peak?



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Dilip Balwant Vengsarkar  popularly known as 'Colonel' was truly one of the most impactful or dazzling  batsmen in the history of Indian cricket.On his day his batting simply flourished like any great batsmen posessing a great repertoire of strokes At his best he could pulverize the best of pace attacks to the sword .On his day it was one of cricket's most majestic sights watching 'Colonel' drive,pull and hook a cricket ball.Few batsmen ever were as proficient players of the leg drive where he resembled Greg Chappell more than anyone.Also a very fine exponent of the hook and pull shot.No Indian batsmen and very few batsmen in the world had such an outstanding record against the great West Indian pace quartet as Dilip.Vengsarkar also has the unique distinction of scoring 3 consecutive centuries at Lords,the mecca of cricket.Few Asian batsmen were better executioners of the hookshot.At his peak his batting was simply a revelation.In many ways today Indian cricket has forgotten the deeds of this maestro who took batting aestheticism to dazzling heights,posseing an element of genius.

 

More than the runs it was the circumstances in which he scored them that appealed to fans.At lahore,when every other Indian batsmen floundered Dilip heroically stood up scoring 76 out of a total of 199,driving Imran all around the place.In 1983-83 when Imran launched his blitzkrieg at Karachi capturing 5-3 in a spell Vengskar was the one who stood up like a rock scoring 79.He also scored an epic unbeaten 146 at Delhi against Pakistan at home taking India within touch sight of famous win chasing over 390 runs.In most difficult seaming condition sat Leeds Vengsarkar encountered the moving ball with articulate skill scoring a match-winning unbeaten 102.All his centuries at Lords were scored when the team faced a crisis.In 1979 with Vishy at the other end he ressurected India from the grave to save the test.In 1982 India lost but it was Dilip's herculean 157 that salvaged self -respect for India who seemed doomed to heading towards an innings defeat.In 1986 He brilliantly steered the tail after a middle-order collapse to carve out a crucial 47 run 1st innings lead for India .In 1983-84 in a home serise he topped the batting averages against the great West Indies team averaging 53.12 with brilliant centuries at Delhi and Mumbai.In 1987-88 Vengsarkar averaged over 100 displaying defiance and consistency against great pace rarely witnessed in test cricket.His unbeaten 40 also heroically saved India from the jaws of defeat in the 2nd test at Mumbai.I can hardly recollect an Asian batsmen drive the great West Indies quickies as fluently as 'Colonel.'From June 1986 to March 1988 'Colonel' was the epitome of consistency.,being officially ranked by Deloitte as the best test batsmen in the world.His domination in this period is more than any Indian batting great ever notching up 1751 runs at an average of 92.27 with 8 hundreds.This surpassed Gavaskar's golden era of 1721 runs in 13 test at an average of 86.05 with 7 hundreds. .In my book for a period 'Colonel' was the best batsmen in the world before Javed Miandad's resurgence to form in 1988.No batsmen apart for Dilip  averaged over 100 in a series facing the great West Indies pace attack,which is remarkable.Remarkable that Dilip has the highest average ever in a test series in England by an Indian batsmen and the best average against the great Caribaen pace quartet.I doubt many of the modern maestros would have surpassed 'Colonels' performances against.the great Caribbean pacemen.Arguably in his peak Dilip compared with the all-time great batsmen of the game .Amarnath was more solid but still would not drive Imran so fluently as 'Colonel.',as revealed in the home series against Pakistan in 1987.The manner 'Colonel' consistently counter-attacked the likes of Holding and Marshall in 1983-84 and 1987-88 will be permanently embedded in my mind,as even the likes of Gower,Crowe and Miaadad did not equal him in that respect.

 

Sadly he was never at his best in Australia,inspite of the bouncy wickets suiting his style.Nor did he score single test hundred in West Indies against their attack which he mastered.In many series he lost form giving mere flashes of brilliance like at home against England in 1984-85 or in Pakistan and West Indies in 1982-83.He was overshadowed greatly by Sandeep Patil in Australia in 1980-81 and Mohinder Amarnath in West Indies.He was also not at his best on the offside often moving towards one side when batting.In my view he retired prematurely in the days that Azharuddinn dazzled.

 

Was 'Colonel' a true batting great?I feel at his best in 1986-88 he was in the class of a Viv Richards ,Greg Chappell or Javed Miandad,when he mercilessly destroyed pace and swing bowling in all conditions.I cant recall a batsmen in the mid 1980's as majestic in executing the drives. ,even if there many technically sounder and artistic batsmen. Vengsrakar scored 6868 runs at an average of 42-14 which is outstanding with 17 centuries.Perhaps inconsistency cost Dilip a place amongst the all-time great batsmen.Facing sheer pace in my view he was a better batsmen than the likes of Mohamad Azharuddin and arguably even Rahul Dravid or Virendra Sehwag.Overall Vengsarkar could compare with batsmen like Zaheer Abbas or David Gower or even Martin Crowe.In todays day and age with wickets so much flatter Vengsarkar might well have averaged around 50.It is suprising that he never scored a double-hundred in his entire test career.To me against genuine pace amongst great Indian batsmen only Tendulkar,Gavaskar,Vishwnath and Amarnath(at his best) rank ahead of 'Colonel."I would have backed Vengsarkar to become an all-time great batsmen in ODI's with his uncanny ability to improvise.

Edited by Harsh Thakor
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2 minutes ago, Harsh Thakor said:

At his best in the class of Viv Richards or Greg Chappell from 1986-1988?See his record. Championed great pace of best attack ever.

I don't think he could be put in that class. He was no where near Viv or Greg level but he was good. I personally liked him a lot because to me he is what a sports person should be. Not the most talented but worked hard. A blue collar player as I would like to call him. Final grade B+.

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2 minutes ago, Khota said:

I don't think he could be put in that class. He was no where near Viv or Greg level but he was good. I personally liked him a lot because to me he is what a sports person should be. Not the most talented but worked hard. A blue collar player as I would like to call him. Final grade B+.

A great player of genuine pace?Compare record with players like Azharuddin  or even Sehwag or Dravid.

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7 minutes ago, Harsh Thakor said:

A great player of genuine pace?Compare record with players like Azharuddin  or even Sehwag or Dravid.

Azhar was a politician so I don't care.

 

Not close to Dravid. Dravid was at a different level. Sehwag was better too.

 

It wasa different era with very few strokes at display. Boundaries were few and sixers were rare. Batsman now hit the ball lot more cleanly than before.

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1 hour ago, Straight Drive said:

At his best he was batting better than Viv Richards, Gower, Jaheer Abbas, Grenidge who were all too  players during his peak.

No he was not, his best was always in India and Lords.I don't think he ever had the ability of Richards or Greenidge.I would rate him on par as test batsman with Gower and Abbas. 

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1 hour ago, putrevus said:

No he was not, his best was always in India and Lords.I don't think he ever had the ability of Richards or Greenidge.I would rate him on par as test batsman with Gower and Abbas. 

Difference of opinion on this.

 

From what I remember he had magnificent two years which I refer as his peak. In fact he was a scoring more than the others although he did not have the unique abilities of Richards or Gower. Richards was anytime a better batsman imo as well but those two years Vengsaekar matchedand bettered the best of his times.

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6 hours ago, Harsh Thakor said:

A great player of genuine pace?Compare record with players like Azharuddin  or even Sehwag or Dravid.

Overall Vengsarkar was not great batsman imo. He was the best of all only during his peak. Sehwag and Dravid were in higher class imo if we compare whole careers. Laxman was  also a better batsman

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I don't think he was great against genuine pace which the OP is making him to be, he struggled both in Australia and against WI.He was awful in Pakistan too. He was very one dimesional test player who was good at home and very weak away from home except England.

 

OP is out his mind to call him great player to pace bowling. 

Edited by putrevus
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1 hour ago, putrevus said:

I don't think he was great against genuine pace which the OP is making him to be, he struggled both in Australia and against WI.He was awful in Pakistan too. He was very one dimesional test player who was good at home and very weak away from home except England.

 

OP is out his mind to call him great player to pace bowling. 

What about his great average facing top West Indian quickies?In 1983-84 and 1987-88?Still not great against pace?

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19 hours ago, Harsh Thakor said:

What about his great average facing top West Indian quickies?In 1983-84 and 1987-88?Still not great against pace?

No, both series were played in India where pitches negate fast bowlers, no matter how great those WI fast bowlers were, pitches negated them to some extent.

Most of those tons were scored on flat pitches which ended in draws. I would rate Amarnath better against fast bowling.1982-83 where he was the best player of fast bowling in world and from India.His twin fifties in 1983 Barbados test with broken nose if I am not wrong when all other Indian batsmen simply got intimatdated by the WI bowlers on a very fast pitch.

 

Vengy was a no show in any country other than England.In those days teams never tried to create green pitches which Indian teams face these days.

 

 

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7 hours ago, R!TTER said:

Close thread, objective achieved :partyall:

i think this thread and poll were troll thread basically, when the question is on Dillip Vengsarkar being great or not ? how come Maajid Khan is not an option. its an obvious miss so i had to point out.

 

OP please add Maajid khan as third option in poll.

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