India cap is not cheap- players like Dube devalue it

[Bigg Brother]

Bhai Dubey ko rehne de, Bachhe ki debut thi

[Ankit_sharma03]

7 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

So, we have to see whether Dube is the improving or learning type or refuses to learn. Only time will tell.

Neways guys like dube will never plays against quality of starc, cummins, rabaada in domestic......even failures wud make him better. When yuvi came in he was terrible against spinners but after 4-5 yrs he became better against them

[maniac]

28 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

that was captain coach fault

They invested in guys like DK n rayudu who were proven failure n gave them all time.....when WC came close rayudu sucked big time n no option was left . TM is suppose to identify youngsters n gave them enough chances

Shankar was at right time right place n he perfomed in NZ n Aus series so it wasnt that he didnt perform n earn

Rayudu was an u-19 Star, performer in domestics, star performer in IPL, sure suspect against quality bowling and but did decently here and there. 
 

Everyone felt it was unfair the way he was dropped right before the WC. Like him or hate him the process was handled badly. 
 

He checks a lot more boxes than someone like Dube or Krunal Pandya or even Shankar

 

He made it through the right grind.

 

To some extent same goes for DK who was always nearly there but never been. 

Edited November 3, 2019 by maniac

[Straight Drive]

4 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Neways guys like dube will never plays against quality of starc, cummins, rabaada in domestic......even failures wud make him better. When yuvi came in he was terrible against spinners but after 4-5 yrs he became better against them

We cannot wait for players to get good after 4-5 years because the last time India won T20i cup was in 2007? There are lot of players in this T20i team who have failed to carry on IPL performances in the tournaments that matter. The team is just not showing they can win significant tournament in T20 format. Individual performances are useless if team loses the tournament that matters.

[Ankit_sharma03]

11 minutes ago, maniac said:

Rayudu was an u-19 Star, performer in domestics, star performer in IPL, sure suspect against quality bowling and but did decently here and there. 
 

Everyone felt it was unfair the way he was dropped right before the WC. Like him or hate him the process was handled badly. 

 

To select him back was idiotic on IPL ....specially it was already proven that he struggled against pace n bounce. If ppl on ICF figured that out m sure TM wud have to its just that kohli lives in present n wud have not learned that as he always does. Now when he started failing before wc it went against him n all those thoughts of his struggles against pace n bounce came back. His poor fielding didnt help. We had a thread which had a count of around 50 runs lost by rayudu in fielding only.....m sure TM had that data to

 

Kohli doesnt have patience for anyone so it was bound to happen .....Some players will n always be on thin ice like  rayudu , jadhav are n failing before the Wc was never going to be good for these guys. 

 

He shudnt have been bought back only

 

Quote

He checks a lot more boxes than someone like Dube or Krunal Pandya.

comparison makes no sense

 

Dube n pandya are considered for t20 .....Rayudu case was ODI

Krunal has already done well in alien conditions for his spin bowling like Aus, NZ WI....rayudu nemsis was overses 

Rayudu was a middle order batsman.....these guys plays as lower order batsman n all rounder

 

Rayudu shud be comapred to iyer n all

Dube n pandya to jaduu, binny n all 

Quote

 

He made it through the right grind.

Rayudu Performed in domestic, A games , ipl 

 

So have pandya bros....whats the difference 

Shankar ,Dube  have performed in domestic n A games 

Edited November 3, 2019 by Ankit_sharma03

[Ankit_sharma03]

7 minutes ago, Straight Drive said:

We cannot wait for players to get good after 4-5 years because the last time India won T20i cup was in 2007? There are lot of players in this T20i team who have failed to carry on IPL performances in the tournaments that matter. The team is just not showing they can win significant tournament in T20 format. Individual performances are useless if team loses the tournament that matters.

We can wait for few games atleast na.....lets do that . I have already stated that i have my doubts about dube batting but no matter what every player shud be given a fair run. 

 

Under kohli neways we wont Wc.....so i have left that hope long back.Whats important is that these youngsters settle in

Edited November 3, 2019 by Ankit_sharma03

[rtmohanlal]

no need of blaming Dubey it seems. Dhawan was the main culprit in the match. Even his T20 record is a bit off.  Mere  41  of 42 balls in a T20 is simply  not adequate of a well set batsman in this format. Others were all ok . Inexperienced players need time & will become good by playing more matches. 

And in T2Os  lower ranked teams have more chances of  winning against higher ranked teams. BAN's first win vs India too. So nothing to be worried. Happens.

[sandeep]

19 minutes ago, maniac said:

Rayudu was an u-19 Star, performer in domestics, star performer in IPL, sure suspect against quality bowling and but did decently here and there. 
 

Everyone felt it was unfair the way he was dropped right before the WC

Dube devalues the cap, while Rayudu was dropped "unfairly".  

 

And then this guy turns around and talks **** about Mumbai lobby.

[sandeep]

10 minutes ago, rtmohanlal said:

no need of blaming Dubey it seems. Dhawan was the main culprit in the match. Even his T20 record is a bit off.  Mere  41  of 42 balls in a T20 is simply  not adequate of a well set batsman in this format. Others were all ok . Inexperienced players need time & will become good by playing more matches. 

And in T2Os  lower ranked teams have more chances of  winning against higher ranked teams. BAN's first win vs India too. So nothing to be worried. Happens.

Dhawan and KLPD - 56 runs in 59 balls - that's about half of a T20 innings 10 overs, including powerplay.  

 

And morons will run around screaming and vomiting their frustrations at Dubey, Khaleel and Krunal.  Nobody's claiming that those guys are stars and blameless.  But today's game was lost with the bat.  By the top order.  Shreyas apart, the entire top order failed.  You can't win a game that way.  Sundar, Krunal and Iyer scored 51 runs in 26 balls.  If those guys hadn't chipped in, this game would have been lost by the 12th over.  

Edited November 3, 2019 by sandeep

[Ankit_sharma03]

3 minutes ago, sandeep said:

Dube devalues the cap, while Rayudu was dropped "unfairly".  

 

And then this guy turns around and talks **** about Mumbai lobby.

To add

Rayudu was legit bad against pace n bounce proved again n again

n the question is on Dube pace playing ability who hasn't even gotten a chance

[maniac]

2 minutes ago, sandeep said:

Dube devalues the cap, while Rayudu was dropped "unfairly".  

 

And then this guy turns around and talks **** about Mumbai lobby.

Do you even read the context?

 

Rayudu losing his spot to Shankar was criticized by every cricket expert.  Rayudu deserving  his comeback based on IPL or not is a different debate and I have said that IPL is not a sole criteria for selections many times.

 

The point I was making is guys like Rayudu,DK or even Shaw,Pant etc are coming through a proper system of u-19,Domestics,A sides,IPL etc. a weighed average of those performances and that is a good side about our structure.
 

Also Mumbai lobby exists. Are you living under a rock? It’s not just Mumbai but Indian cricket is concentrated in a few power centers. That’s a harsh truth .

 

Unless you are marching  to Azad hind fauj songs with batteries you think everything is flowery out there. However  blaming every single thing to Mumbai lobby is stupid and I have called that when that topic came up.

 

The point here is “Mumbai india lobby” obviously you missed that as usual with your premature braingasm.

[sandeep]

37 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

How do we know that he can't play good quality pace or, more importantly, does not have the ability to learn playing good quality pace with some exposure to such bowlers. ?

 

He was fiercely hitting pacers like Nortje and Dala in a couple of matches. These bowlers have pace but lack the experience just like Dube himself.  So, this is a good start.

 

Even Kohli looked like a fish out of water on his first test tour to the WI ... but he learned.

 

So, we have to see whether Dube is the improving or learning type or refuses to learn. Only time will tell.

Power-hitting in whiteball cricket is a specific skillset.  There are very rare 'proper' batsmen who can give you what Finch, Maxwell, Hardik Pandya, Buttler can.  In India, we have a massive shortage of talent in this role.  Even in the IPL, most teams outsource this job to expensive foreign player purchases.  

 

Dube may, or may not be international quality.  But he has earned a shot at a trial, especially with Hardik out injured.  We need to try out guys like him, Ishan Kishan, etc in that role.  Because T20 batting lineups are shifting more and more towards packing the unit with multiple 'wild card' players like that - guys who are not consistent, but can win you games when they click.  

 

If searching for players of this type requires auditioning more  guys like Dubey, Rush Kalaria etc - then the selectors are actually doing the right thing for a change.  Especially with Dubey, who has put up a string of performances at the domestic white ball level.  

[sandeep]

2 minutes ago, maniac said:

Do you even read the context?

 

Rayudu losing his spot to Shankar was criticized by every cricket expert.  Rayudu deserving  his comeback based on IPL or not is a different debate and I have said that IPL is not a sole criteria for selections many times.

 

The point I was making is guys like Rayudu,DK or even Shaw,Pant etc are coming through a proper system of u-19,Domestics,A sides,IPL etc. a weighed average of those performances and that is a good side about our structure.
 

Also Mumbai lobby exists. Are you living under a rock? It’s not just Mumbai but Indian cricket is concentrated in a few power centers. That’s a harsh truth .

 

Unless you are marching  to Azad hind fauj songs with batteries you think everything is flowery out there. However  blaming every single thing to Mumbai lobby is stupid and I have called that when that topic came up.

 

The point here is “Mumbai india lobby” obviously you missed that as usual with your premature braingasm.

There's way too much nonsense here for me to bother responding too.  Fact off.

[maniac]

6 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

To add

Rayudu was legit bad against pace n bounce proved again n again

n the question is on Dube pace playing ability who hasn't even gotten a chance

If Iyer had failed today no one would criticize him because every one thinks he “earned” a shot. Same goes for Rahul or Pant in T20 format.

 

The problem was with players making it on the wrong criteria. You need multiple factors to weigh in before giving someone a debut.

 

No one would complain if Gill played this game and flopped.

 

How are you not seeing the difference 

[maniac]

Just now, sandeep said:

There's way too much nonsense here for me to bother responding too.  Fact off.

Yeah I guess a well constructed argument was too much to handle. Don’t blame you

[maniac]

Power hitting is not the only skill set. Rohit sharma or Kohli can hit 6’s and 4’s just on skill.

 

Gayle is a proper batsman who picks his bowlers, plays %cricket not a slogger. Same was the case with Sehwag and even Yuvraj.

 

a couple of 6s don’t earn you an international cap

[Ankit_sharma03]

20 minutes ago, maniac said:

If Iyer had failed today no one would criticize him because every one thinks he “earned” a shot. Same goes for Rahul or Pant in T20 format.

 

The problem was with players making it on the wrong criteria. You need multiple factors to weigh in before giving someone a debut.

 

No one would complain if Gill played this game and flopped.

 

How are you not seeing the difference 

Again m asking how is Dube selected on wrong criteria??? he made runs in domestic, A games....showed he has X-factor 

Options in his role arent much ...so he was rightly selected 

 

Why are giving xamples of players who player in top order , who role n competition , skill required are diff ?

 

 

 

[Ankit_sharma03]

22 minutes ago, maniac said:

Power hitting is not the only skill set. Rohit sharma or Kohli can hit 6’s and 4’s just on skill.

Power hitting from ball 1 in lower order is a huge skill set specially in t20 when time is less . 

 

Rohit n kohli cannot bat at 6, 7 ....

 

Batting at 6, 7 is very very tough.....coz u dnt get time n may opp . So it requires diff set of players 

Quote

 

Gayle is a proper batsman who picks his bowlers, plays %cricket not a slogger. Same was the case with Sehwag and even Yuvraj.

Again none were lower order batsman apart from yuvraj who himself was very inconsistent and when came a very poor batsman against spin, yuvi can be bad against spin but dube doubt against pace is worse.....ye kya baat hui

Quote

 

a couple of 6s don’t earn you an international cap

He didnt hit sixes in 1-2 IPL game

HE did bloody well in domestic, A games On WI tour n Against SA

 

ur making it sound like he earned a cap on cameo

Edited November 3, 2019 by Ankit_sharma03

[rtmohanlal]

37 minutes ago, sandeep said:

Dhawan and KLPD - 56 runs in 59 balls - that's about half of a T20 innings 10 overs, including powerplay.  

 

And morons will run around screaming and vomiting their frustrations at Dubey, Khaleel and Krunal.  Nobody's claiming that those guys are stars and blameless.  But today's game was lost with the bat.  By the top order.  Shreyas apart, the entire top order failed.  You can't win a game that way.  Sundar, Krunal and Iyer scored 51 runs in 26 balls.  If those guys hadn't chipped in, this game would have been lost by the 12th over.  

yes ...  that is  really  unwanted &  strange to blame these rookies... On a parallel note it would be better of  these experts  to examine as to how the likes of Warner/Finch goes about  their business in T20s. Dhawan is no match for  these type of batsmen in T20s.

Edited November 3, 2019 by rtmohanlal

[sandeep]

8 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Why are giving xamples of players who player in top order

Because he's a dunce.  Stop wasting your time - he will simply ignore any logic or points you make, and keep repeating his weirdo opinions over and over.  Power-hitting at #6 or lower requires you to go bang bang from the first ball.  Gayle, Kohli etc - none of these guys are capable of doing that.  

 

His problem is that when faced with something he doesn't understand, he tries to repeat his trash like a mantra, instead of approaching the question objectively with an open mind.  Simply incapable of doing that.  

 

Same guy who a couple of years ago asked why is Jadeja selected in test cricket.  Jadeja is averaging 24 with the ball, 45 with the bat in 3 years.  Same guy who said Hardik Pandya is overrated.  Guys like Nasser Hussain are using Hardik Pandya as the benchmark for modern T20 power-hitting.   Meanwhile this moron will sing love songs about Ben Duckett and Jermaine Blackwood, and bash young guys like Dubey.  He's an idiot, period.

Edited November 3, 2019 by sandeep