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express bowling

Are inexperienced youngsters in Team India being made to " improve " too quickly and losing their natural game and confidence as a result ?

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14 minutes ago, bowl_out said:

I would also blame Rohit, Kohli taking the limelight by having a top heavy batting line up irrespective of how weak or strong the opposition is..

 

Examples:

-Kohli playing the WI series.

-Top 3 remaining Rohit, Dhawan, Kohli even against really weak oppositions in dead rubber matches

-Putting immense pressure on youngsters after every failure

 

These are top of mind when it comes to TM and leadership attitude towards youngsters

 

Agree.

 

We need to try youngsters in the top 3 against weaker teams.

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Just watch this team play on the field and observe the players. All seems way too mechanical and the whole ‘team bond‘ feels flaky. 

 

As a youngster in the current setup, you are unwelcome. Not one youngster looks naturally happy, all of them are forced to ‘fit in’, else be ready to lose your spot and career. If you have a natural flair and try to show that on the field, a ‘rap on the knuckles’ including public humiliation by captain, coaches, selectors await.

 

No wonder that in the last 5 years or so, not one talented young player, batsman or bowler, has been properly groomed. Bumrah is only an exception.

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51 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

Agree.

 

We need to try youngsters in the top 3 against weaker teams.

Ganguly said the same thing when talking about youngsters, and promoting Dhoni to #3 when he was new - He said the only way to find out if what stuff the player is made of, and what he can do, is to give them chances early in the game.  You're not going to find new talent by making them bat at #6 and 7.  

 

Sorry to say, but Kuptaan Wrogn is more concerned about maintaining his monopoly on brand endorsements than promoting talent.  After all, if Shreyas Iyer starts scoring centuries in ODIs, there's every reason to worry that brands will start flocking to the new young kid on the block - get him early and cheap - instead of bidding higher and higher for Virat's services.   

 

Virat Rohit and Dhawan have a boa-constrictor grip on the top 3 slots in ODIs - and that's the reason India did not win a  WC that was there for the taking.  

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6 minutes ago, ShoonyaSifar said:

Just watch this team play on the field and observe the players. All seems way too mechanical and the whole ‘team bond‘ feels flaky. 

 

As a youngster in the current setup, you are unwelcome. Not one youngster looks naturally happy, all of them are forced to ‘fit in’, else be ready to lose your spot and career. If you have a natural flair and try to show that on the field, a ‘rap on the knuckles’ including public humiliation by captain, coaches, selectors await.

 

No wonder that in the last 5 years or so, not one talented young player, batsman or bowler, has been properly groomed. Bumrah is only an exception.

Bumrah wasn't 'groomed'.  He burst onto the scene.  

 

The current team management have a very "in" crowd vibe to it - if you are considered part of the cool club, you will get extra long ropes.  Dhawan will get to be test match opener in SA and England, even if that means benching a Pujara or a Rahane.  Rohit will come into the test team ahead of Pujara and Murali Vijay.  Dhawan gets first dibs on T20 slots too.  Who cares what's best for the team.  The rest?  Manish Pandey, Kedar Jadhav, Shreyas Iyer - anyone and everyone, is treated as disposable commodity.  To be used as needed and pushed around when inconvenient.

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25 minutes ago, sandeep said:

Bumrah wasn't 'groomed'.  He burst onto the scene. 

Yeah...he had already made a name in  ipl.

Besides I feel he is a  strong character who has a clear mind about what to do and how to progress .He is mature for his age. He also has a pleasant personality and can probably  avoid the usual experimentation without offending the key people.

 

Khaleel seems to get too influenced .

 

Pant is immature. The guy called the egomaniac kohli...chacha in his birthday wishes on insta :facepalm:

I hope he is not calling Anushka aunty :p:

 

Edited by beetle

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59 minutes ago, beetle said:

Yeah...he had already made a name in  ipl.

Besides I feel he is a  strong character who has a clear mind about what to do and how to progress .He is mature for his age. He also has a pleasant personality and can probably  avoid the usual experimentation without offending the key people.

 

Khaleel seems to get too influenced .

 

Pant is immature. The guy called the egomaniac kohli...chacha in his birthday wishes on insta :facepalm:

I hope he is not calling Anushka aunty :p:

 

Not when he plays for Delhi, India A or for IPL. Takes responsibility and sees his side home. In LOIs however, he looks so much under pressure all the time whether keeping or batting. 

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1 hour ago, ShoonyaSifar said:

Not when he plays for Delhi, India A or for IPL. Takes responsibility and sees his side home. In LOIs however, he looks so much under pressure all the time whether keeping or batting. 

Immature in personal conduct ...not cricket.:p:

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On 11/8/2019 at 11:55 AM, beetle said:

Immature in personal conduct ...not cricket.:p:

 

Like not greeting Mr.Gavaskar with , " Respectaid Saaar, I am hhonoured to mit u today "  every time he sees him.   :phehe:

 

SMG seems to dislike the very sight of Pant on TV and is at him all the time.

 

 

 

 

Edited by express bowling

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2 hours ago, sandeep said:

Bumrah wasn't 'groomed'.  He burst onto the scene.  

 

The current team management have a very "in" crowd vibe to it - if you are considered part of the cool club, you will get extra long ropes.  Dhawan will get to be test match opener in SA and England, even if that means benching a Pujara or a Rahane.  Rohit will come into the test team ahead of Pujara and Murali Vijay.  Dhawan gets first dibs on T20 slots too.  Who cares what's best for the team.  The rest?  Manish Pandey, Kedar Jadhav, Shreyas Iyer - anyone and everyone, is treated as disposable commodity.  To be used as needed and pushed around when inconvenient.

Bumrah already had 4-5 years of FC and IPL experience.

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3 hours ago, beetle said:

Yeah...he had already made a name in  ipl.

Besides I feel he is a  strong character who has a clear mind about what to do and how to progress .He is mature for his age. He also has a pleasant personality and can probably  avoid the usual experimentation without offending the key people.

 

Khaleel seems to get too influenced .

 

Pant is immature. The guy called the egomaniac kohli...chacha in his birthday wishes on insta :facepalm:

I hope he is not calling Anushka aunty :p:

 

Did he? wow nice, can we have that tweet here, awsome..... waisey bhi pant ki lagi padi hai achha hai tweetar per likh k aatma ko kuch shanti mil jayegi.

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4 minutes ago, raki05 said:

Did he? wow nice, can we have that tweet here, awsome..... waisey bhi pant ki lagi padi hai achha hai tweetar per likh k aatma ko kuch shanti mil jayegi.

It was on his insta story I think.

Rehne do....he is in enough trouble waisay bhi ...:roti:

 

 

 

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Totally agree with your overall point, not nearly enough opportunities given to younger players when their can and should be... but not sure about this, in the end it was our ordinary middle and lower order that cost us it as we always knew it would....it was there that more opportunities should have been given to other contenders

 

19 hours ago, sandeep said:

 

Virat Rohit and Dhawan have a boa-constrictor grip on the top 3 slots in ODIs - and that's the reason India did not win a  WC that was there for the taking.  

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I think adaptability is the key in such a scenario.  Try to make the most of the role you play. Suresh Raina never had complaints about the role he played. Yuvraj didn't either. Both played the tough role of finishing the innings. Somebody has to do the dirty job of finishing the innings.  KL Rahul should have adapted himself to that role. But he relies on fielders standing up.  Only reason KKD was still hanging around because he was doing the dirty job reasonably well for a brief period. Guys like Nitish Rana should be given an opportunity. Hardik is injured half the time. India should look for potential finishers.

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14 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

I think adaptability is the key in such a scenario.  Try to make the most of the role you play. Suresh Raina never had complaints about the role he played. Yuvraj didn't either. Both played the tough role of finishing the innings. Somebody has to do the dirty job of finishing the innings.  KL Rahul should have adapted himself to that role. But he relies on fielders standing up.  Only reason KKD was still hanging around because he was doing the dirty job reasonably well for a brief period. Guys like Nitish Rana should be given an opportunity. Hardik is injured half the time. India should look for potential finishers.

 

Finishers typically bat at No.5 to No.7.

 

Till the WC 19, we had Dhoni, Kedar and Pandya in these spots in ODIs. 

 

Not many youngster got chances for this role.

 

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One of the problem is fan expectation. Everyone expected Pant to be a match winner like Dhoni of 2007 completely forgetting Dhoni also took time to settle down. 

 

Same for khaleel. He was supposed to be a Zaheer avatar, he will be there but needs a few years. 

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3 hours ago, Sooda said:

Totally agree with your overall point, not nearly enough opportunities given to younger players when their can and should be... but not sure about this, in the end it was our ordinary middle and lower order that cost us it as we always knew it would....it was there that more opportunities should have been given to other contenders

 

It was failure of our top order that lost us the WC and not middle and lower order. Lower order actually brought us back in the game.  See our top order has been so good that they hardly let middle and lower order bat when it is flat but slight help and our top order crumbles and then you expect your middle and lower order to suddenly win you games when they have barely got the chance to bat.

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2 minutes ago, jf1gp_1 said:

One of the problem is fan expectation. Everyone expected Pant to be a match winner like Dhoni of 2007 completely forgetting Dhoni also took time to settle down. 

 

Same for khaleel. He was supposed to be a Zaheer avatar, he will be there but needs a few years. 

Pant has already done as good as Dhoni in tests and T20s.   It is not like Dhoni was a great T20 batsman.

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2 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Pant has already done as good as Dhoni in tests and T20s.   It is not like Dhoni was a great T20 batsman.

Pant is a keeper batsman dont know why everyone only talks about his batting.

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4 hours ago, Sooda said:

Totally agree with your overall point, not nearly enough opportunities given to younger players when their can and should be... but not sure about this, in the end it was our ordinary middle and lower order that cost us it as we always knew it would....it was there that more opportunities should have been given to other contenders

 

Well, our problems with the middle and lower order were well known for years - Hardik Pandya's emergence mitigated the lower order issue to an extent.  But the team should have done a much more effective job at addressing the hole in the middle order.  Guys like KL Rahul, Karthik, Rayudu, Shankar, Iyer, Rishabh, whoever - should have gotten a dozen games each starting in 2017 - not just in the middle order, but at #3 and #4.  So that they would have had opportunities to build long innings and personal confidence.  Come the WC semi-final, we ask guys like Rishabh, Rahul, Karthik etc to win us the game, but they had not gotten the experience they needed.  They were not put in positions that gave them best chance to succeed.  They were treated as 2nd class accessories, to be used and thrown around the line-up as and when required.  

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If i may say so Pant's unnatural game (which he played in Tests) will make him a permanent fixture than his natural game. Even in Tests in Australia every time he brought up his "natural game" he got out to Lyon or someone else. Dhoni when he started out hitting sixes for fun and always showed intent. Moment he became the captain he started playing percentage cricket.  Always hard to dismiss him in the one dayers. I think Pant has such a game.  Pant needs some tinkering. His off-balance natural game can invite more scrutiny.  For one thing he has no concept of placement. That is the most important thing for risky stroke players. Even if you miscue it won't get to fielders. He has to develop a stable  stroke play.

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Khaleel Ahmed went back to bowling using his original style in the 3rd T20I  ... that is hitting the deck hard at 137 k to 145 k while trying to hit a good length usually  ... and not bowling too many slower balls or trying too many variations.

 

He kept things simple for a change.

 

Result ...  excellent economy rate of 6.75 in a T20 ... could have had a wicket when an easy catch lobbed off a good surprise bouncer but there was no one to catch it.

 

This should be thè way forward for him and he will gain confidence. And he will pick more skills with time as he plays more.

Edited by express bowling

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