Afghan embassy raises concern over portrayal of Ahmad Shah Abdali in Ashutosh Gowariker's 'Panipat'

[Singh bling]

What a shame. These people worship a mass murderer and even wants Bollywood not to portray him bad. Can't they understand that he invaded India and killed it's people. What they want to portray him as kabuliwala

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/entertainment/hindi/bollywood/news/afghan-embassy-raises-concern-over-portrayal-of-ahmad-shah-abdali-in-ashutosh-gowarikers-panipat/articleshow/71963300.cms

 

[sandeep]

Tons of Pakistanis - even the "liberal" ones who know that their military is to blame for a lot of the Ind-Pak issues, even those guys, are whining about "negative" portrayal of Abdali.  Crying about making villains out of muslims.  There's a Professor of Mughal history who pointed out that the real Abdali had a big fat rotting tumor on his nose, and his ears were mutilated when he was young - so claiming that bollywood is making a handsome 'hero' look bad because India is anti-muslim is ridiculous.  If anything, portraying him this way is historically inaccurate, but making him look a lot better than he really did.

[MechEng]

Good going Afghans! I would even want Pakistanis and uighurs to join against this. Inshallah don't let kafir qaum make movies making them look bad. Do everything to stop RSS ki saazish.

[Muloghonto]

Abdali gets too much credit for creating modern day Afghanistan. IMO the real father of modern day Afghanistan is Mirwais Hotaki. Till Mirwais Hotaki’s time, Afghan history had followed a predictable pattern for nearly 2000 years: be ruled by steppe nomads invading ( Turks, mongols, Shakas, huns), be rules by Persians completely or have it’s eastern third ruled by Indians( Mauryas, Guptas, Palas, Delhi Sultans, Mughals ), with Kandahar being the border hot potato between India and Persia.

 

Mirwais Hotak changed all that: in the dying days of Safavid empire, the shah of Iran stupidly sent a Georgian shia nobleman to Afghanistan, to force convert Afghans from Sunni to Shia Islam. 

 

Afghans being Afghans and since they love so much to be told what to do by outsiders, united under Mirwais Hotak, deposed the Georgian and went on to form the brief Hotaki dynasty, going as far as to sack the Persian capital of Ishfahan. 

 

The destruction of Safavid power was complete at the hands of Mirwais Hotak and the dynasty managed to officially limp on another 20 years as puppets under Nader Shah and the power of the Afsharid Turks. But since Nader Shah died a paranoid man who killed his own heir coz he was suspicious, after his death the Afsharid empire descended into anarchy, in midst of which a cavalry officer of Nader shah, who used to command his left flank ( the right flank was held by Naders own tribesmen) , names Ahmed Shah Abdali rose to fill the power vacuum and made Afghanistan independent.

 

But real credit for it lies to Mirwais Hotak and I am surprised that Afghans don’t celebrate him much. 

[Muloghonto]

And also, Abdali deserves all the hate he gets. Not only was he an extremely brutal man, he slaughtered the civilians the Marathas brought with them to war ( dumbest and most ch00tiya move I know of in history of warfare) and he specifically slaughtered cows in the Harimandir Sahib to mock the Sikhs.

 

Edited November 14, 2019 by Muloghonto

[vayuu1]

6 hours ago, Singh bling said:

What a shame. These people worship a mass murderer and even wants Bollywood not to portray him bad. Can't they understand that he invaded India and killed it's people. What they want to portray him as kabuliwala

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/entertainment/hindi/bollywood/news/afghan-embassy-raises-concern-over-portrayal-of-ahmad-shah-abdali-in-ashutosh-gowarikers-panipat/articleshow/71963300.cms

 

When he actually was a Bose di wala. 

[Vilander]

5 hours ago, Muloghonto said:

IMO the real father of modern day Afghanistan is Mirwais Hotaki.

[coffee_rules]

Even Wikipedia is brutal to Abdali, makes him real baddie, makes Aurangzeb look like Jallaluddin.

[rahulrulezz]

13 hours ago, Muloghonto said:

And also, Abdali deserves all the hate he gets. Not only was he an extremely brutal man, he slaughtered the civilians the Marathas brought with them to war ( dumbest and most ch00tiya move I know of in history of warfare) and he specifically slaughtered cows in the Harimandir Sahib to mock the Sikhs.

 

He gave his armymen free reign to do whatever they want. This was their so called revenge to their loss at Kunjpura. Supposedly most women were raped, and were taken as sex slaves back to Afghanistan. I remember reading few years back that wife of a famous high army general was also captured and taken, I can’t find her name anymore on the net. I still am not sure of the role of Holkar. Did he actually run away or did he go to save the civilians. 

[velu]

its all fair in love and war ..

 

if abdali was brutal , what about gengis khan ?

[Gollum]

Even Indian Muslims and Pakistanis are losing their * over this. Abdali screwed the Mughal empire first under Nader Shah and later acting on his own, made Punjabi Muslims suffer, looted/massacred/burnt modern day Pakistan for fun....I know most SC Muslims are not just stupid but also absolutely shameless but why are they disowning their own Muslim ancestors? If Afghans have a problem they can make their own movies and serials to interpret us 'daalkhors' the way they see fit...don't bite the hand that feeds you. 

[sandeep]

4 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Even Indian Muslims and Pakistanis are losing their * over this. Abdali screwed the Mughal empire first under Nader Shah and later acting on his own, made Punjabi Muslims suffer, looted/massacred/burnt modern day Pakistan for fun....I know most SC Muslims are not just stupid but also absolutely shameless but why are they disowning their own Muslim ancestors? If Afghans have a problem they can make their own movies and serials to interpret us 'daalkhors' the way they see fit...don't bite the hand that feeds you. 

Its the insecurity that drives the persecution complex.  "Oh, look we are being portrayed as bad guys and villains again".  

 

To a small degree I understand - think about how Indians in the west react to stereotyping as "Apu", cab drivers, accents etc.  

[Gollum]

38 minutes ago, sandeep said:

Its the insecurity that drives the persecution complex.  "Oh, look we are being portrayed as bad guys and villains again".  

 

To a small degree I understand - think about how Indians in the west react to stereotyping as "Apu", cab drivers, accents etc.  

But these are historical characters, can't change history, it is what it is. Bollywood has always presented Akbar positively (ignoring some uncomfortable facts esp in his early life), there was a DD serial about Tipu Sultan by Sanjay Khan IIRC, MB Tughlaq as the lovable fool in regional cinema etc. So our guys have gone out of their way to highlight the good in Muslim (minority as extension) rulers....obviously the likes of Mahmud of Ghazni, Ghori, Alauddin Khilji, Taimur, Vasco Da Gama, Aurangzeb, Robert Clive, Nader Shah, Abdali won't be portrayed well because their ills (directed towards our ancestors) far outweigh the good they did. Likewise if Muslims feel the on screen treatment of Afzal Guru or Abdul Latif is going to be similar to that of APJ/Ashfaqullah Khan they are delusional. 

 

Big B portrayed kirdaar of an honorable Afghan in Khuda Gawah, we have had many versions of Kabuliwala right from Balraj Sahni's 1961 classic, I think Big B and SLB have teamed up to make the biopic of Frontier Gandhi which will portray him in positive light. Stereotypes of Muslims in Indian movies aren't bad, some kind hearted chacha or loyal friend of the hero, sometimes social justice warrior or wronged person who emerges triumphant from within the system....unlike Apu/accent/cuisine our stereotypes of minorities reinforce positive traits in them. Besides how many Muslim bad guys/villains have been there in our movies? I am not an expert of Indian cinema but my intuition tells me it is rare, Zamindars and Brahmins have historically been easier punching bags in our movies. There was a Bengali movie called Zulfiqar (director/producer LW activist Srijit Mukherji) a couple of years back with Muslim villains, the state govt banned it to maintain 'communal harmony' after protests and threats of violence. 

Edited November 15, 2019 by Gollum

[jf1gp_1]

I wonder how much he paid afghan embassy to raise this issue.  Bansali has mastered the art of creating controversy around his movies thus making loads of money. Gowarikar has also done it a few times the only difference is we have now gone global.  

[Mariyam]

Its quite clear to me that the bravest person in Panipat is neither the Peshwa nor Abdali.

Its the producer of the movie. He decided to make a big budget movie with Arjun Kapoor as the lead. That is very brave.

[Reddysaab]

On 11/14/2019 at 3:51 PM, Muloghonto said:

Abdali gets too much credit for creating modern day Afghanistan. IMO the real father of modern day Afghanistan is Mirwais Hotaki. Till Mirwais Hotaki’s time, Afghan history had followed a predictable pattern for nearly 2000 years: be ruled by steppe nomads invading ( Turks, mongols, Shakas, huns), be rules by Persians completely or have it’s eastern third ruled by Indians( Mauryas, Guptas, Palas, Delhi Sultans, Mughals ), with Kandahar being the border hot potato between India and Persia.

 

Mirwais Hotak changed all that: in the dying days of Safavid empire, the shah of Iran stupidly sent a Georgian shia nobleman to Afghanistan, to force convert Afghans from Sunni to Shia Islam. 

 

Afghans being Afghans and since they love so much to be told what to do by outsiders, united under Mirwais Hotak, deposed the Georgian and went on to form the brief Hotaki dynasty, going as far as to sack the Persian capital of Ishfahan. 

 

The destruction of Safavid power was complete at the hands of Mirwais Hotak and the dynasty managed to officially limp on another 20 years as puppets under Nader Shah and the power of the Afsharid Turks. But since Nader Shah died a paranoid man who killed his own heir coz he was suspicious, after his death the Afsharid empire descended into anarchy, in midst of which a cavalry officer of Nader shah, who used to command his left flank ( the right flank was held by Naders own tribesmen) , names Ahmed Shah Abdali rose to fill the power vacuum and made Afghanistan independent.

 

But real credit for it lies to Mirwais Hotak and I am surprised that Afghans don’t celebrate him much. 

really impressed by your knowledge. these days i am researching about Turks and other steppe nomads who really are the reason how Islam came to india. can u confirm that the early Turks before admixture with Persians, greeks etc, were Mongoloid race people with slanted, slit eyes? i believe the Oghuz Turks who invaded Byzantine Anatolia were Central asian mongoloid race people. then they just mixed with the anatolian greeks and produced the modern turkish race. can u confirm that? I am amazed that how most modern turks do not retain any mongoloid features. is it a true statement that the people of turkey are mostly greek, and balkan ppl who were assimilated by the invading oghuz turks. and very few ppl from turky actually are ethnically turkish. then in that case, calling this country as turkey is a huge misnomer! these are my thoughts

Edited November 18, 2019 by Reddysaab

[Mariyam]

@Reddysaab

I don't think the Turkic people brought Islam to India. Some of the earliest mosques in India (Kerala) were built by the Arab traders who were contemporaries of the prophet (PBUH). And then with a few decades of his death there was the conquest of Sindh.

 

The Turks were a good 2-3 centuries after all this. 

I'm no expert at this.

Help @Muloghonto @sandeep@Stradlater

[Reddysaab]

20 minutes ago, Mariyam said:

@Reddysaab

I don't think the Turkic people brought Islam to India. Some of the earliest mosques in India (Kerala) were built by the Arab traders who were contemporaries of the prophet (PBUH). And then with a few decades of his death there was the conquest of Sindh.

 

The Turks were a good 2-3 centuries after all this. 

I'm no expert at this.

Help @Muloghonto @sandeep@Stradlater

ya arab traders came in etc etc.  but they are not main reason for Islam spread in SC

 

but  the main spread of Islam in a large scale in India was heralded by the Turkic ppl only initially like Qutibuddin aibak who was a turkic mamluk ( slave) who established delhi sultanat and then after him khiljis ( who were turko afghan) and then finally the main guys Turko-Mongols called Mughals. glad all that ended and now atleast we were able to save Hinduism. unlike other parts were indigenous faiths like Zoroastrinism were almost completely wiped out.

Edited November 18, 2019 by Reddysaab

[sandeep]

1 hour ago, Mariyam said:

@Reddysaab

I don't think the Turkic people brought Islam to India. Some of the earliest mosques in India (Kerala) were built by the Arab traders who were contemporaries of the prophet (PBUH). And then with a few decades of his death there was the conquest of Sindh.

 

The Turks were a good 2-3 centuries after all this. 

I'm no expert at this.

Help @Muloghonto @sandeep@Stradlater

In terms of "bringing" Islam at the earliest date to India, yes.  That is correct.  But its an obvious artefact of history that the masses in the plains past the Khyber Pass converted in the hope that as co-religionists they would be spared the fate of the Kufr at the hands of the Marauders that repeatedly rode down the Khyber pass to 'Hindustan'.   

 

IIRC the 'first' mosque in India was built in Malabar, potentially while the Prophet was still alive?? Indians were highly active in oceanic trade, especially between the middle-east and India.  Desi masala definitely launched a thousand ships, even if Helen of Troy's beauty may not have outside of Poetic license.

[sandeep]

1 hour ago, Reddysaab said:

ya arab traders came in etc etc.  but they are not main reason for Islam spread in SC

 

but  the main spread of Islam in a large scale in India was heralded by the Turkic ppl only initially like Qutibuddin aibak who was a turkic mamluk ( slave) who established delhi sultanat and then after him khiljis ( who were turko afghan) and then finally the main guys Turko-Mongols called Mughals. glad all that ended and now atleast we were able to save Hinduism. unlike other parts were indigenous faiths like Zoroastrinism were almost completely wiped out.

Islam is not unique in how it grants religious permission to treat 'non-believers' as children of a lesser god.  The Christian conquistadors didn't treat pagan natives any different.  Its just a combination of how the Islamic faith neatly dovetailed with the lifestyles of the Central Asian Steppe tribes - whose existence depended on raiding caravans along the silk road, and seizing what they could.  If you look at the map, the Central Asians were always in the business of collecting tolls along the silk road, official and unofficial (i.e. loot) - to whatever geographical extent they could muster.  That aspect pre-dates their conversion to Islam.