Is this the greatest NZ test side of all time?

[Gollum]

They have been phenomenal in all formats in recent years, they made the last 2 WC Fs and last WT20 SF. 

 

Talking about the ultimate format...has there ever been a better NZ side?

#2 rank in tests (first time this high LINK), they have a shot at becoming #1 next year, IMO our biggest threat since we face them in their backyard. 

 

Firstly this is my all time NZ XI without including any of their active players

 

Turner

Wright 

Sutcliffe

Crowe 

Fleming (c)

McCullum (wk)

Cairns

Vettori

Hadlee

Bond

Chris Martin

 

You may not agree with this XI, probably you have more knowledge about old era players. Fleming gets the nod ahead of Crowe as my skipper. 

 

Current NZ team has probably its greatest batting unit. Their greatest batsman in Williamson, his 'Robin' Ross Taylor, Latham who might turn out to be their greatest opener in a few years time, an outstanding keeper-bat in Watling, another solid test batsman in Nicholls. CDG isn't that good but Santner might be the closest player to Vettori...I feel his batting ceiling is higher. 2 gun test quicks in Boult, Wagner with Southee as well albeit he has declined. The likes of Henry, Ferguson and Milne are waiting on the sidelines, exciting quicks. All in all this does look like the GOAT Kiwi team.

 

IMO Williamson, Taylor, Boult are already part of AT NZ XI...they will take the places of Sutcliffe, Fleming and Chris Martin respectively...not only is Boult better but he adds variety when partnered with Bond, Hadlee, Cairns, Vettori. I would be tempted to play Watling as the keeper and make Baz play as pure batsman maybe even as opener in place of Wright....he did much better when he left the gloves. So that's 4 current NZ players who walk into the AT side. Perhaps in spinning conditions Santner takes the place of Cairns. Other spots more difficult to breakthrough but don't rule out Latham 6-7 years from now, even the great Glenn Turner may find it difficult to hold on to his spot. 

 

Doubt any other current side has >=4 players who would make it to their all time XI. Bangladesh doesn't count and India will have a few players (4-5?) who might walk into AT side in specific conditions (still debatable), not in all conditions like NZ.

 

What say folks? Have any other NZ side in mind, from the past? 

Edited November 28, 2019 by Gollum

[Gollum]

CDG's stats are misleading, a proper railu katta esp outside 1st 2 days of NZ greentops. Santner has developed his batting enough to come at #7, hope they drop CDG/Southee and bring in Henry/Ferguson for the upcoming Australia tour. Milne is another option.

 

The quartet of Boult/Henry/Ferguson/Wagner is . Santner the bowler will be a weak link however and the 2 lefties (+Starc) will create a huge rough for Lyon to work with. 

 

 

Edited November 28, 2019 by Gollum

[Gollum]

The 2009 NZ side we beat was a joke, weakest side representing them this millennium. From that XI only Vettori, Ryder and Martin will make the current XI. A drawn series next year will be a good accomplishment, of course we have to aim higher but being realistic here. 

Edited November 28, 2019 by Gollum

[Nikhil_cric]

They are overrated in white ball cricket. Losing to them in the semis was disgraceful . In tests they are a quality side and I think this is the best NZ test team ever. 

[Gollum]

@sandeep seriously? Which one will it be then?

[Vijy]

On 11/28/2019 at 11:39 AM, Gollum said:

They have been phenomenal in all formats in recent years, they made the last 2 WC Fs and last WT20 SF. 

 

Talking about the ultimate format...has there ever been a better NZ side?

#2 rank in tests (first time this high LINK), they have a shot at becoming #1 next year, IMO our biggest threat since we face them in their backyard. 

 

Firstly this is my all time NZ XI without including any of their active players

 

Turner

Wright 

Sutcliffe

Crowe 

Fleming (c)

McCullum (wk)

Cairns

Vettori

Hadlee

Bond

Chris Martin

 

You may not agree with this XI, probably you have more knowledge about old era players. Fleming gets the nod ahead of Crowe as my skipper. 

 

Current NZ team has probably its greatest batting unit. Their greatest batsman in Williamson, his 'Robin' Ross Taylor, Latham who might turn out to be their greatest opener in a few years time, an outstanding keeper-bat in Watling, another solid test batsman in Nicholls. CDG isn't that good but Santner might be the closest player to Vettori...I feel his batting ceiling is higher. 2 gun test quicks in Boult, Wagner with Southee as well albeit he has declined. The likes of Henry, Ferguson and Milne are waiting on the sidelines, exciting quicks. All in all this does look like the GOAT Kiwi team.

 

IMO Williamson, Taylor, Boult are already part of AT NZ XI...they will take the places of Sutcliffe, Fleming and Chris Martin respectively...not only is Boult better but he adds variety when partnered with Bond, Hadlee, Cairns, Vettori. I would be tempted to play Watling as the keeper and make Baz play as pure batsman maybe even as opener in place of Wright....he did much better when he left the gloves. So that's 4 current NZ players who walk into the AT side. Perhaps in spinning conditions Santner takes the place of Cairns. Other spots more difficult to breakthrough but don't rule out Latham 6-7 years from now, even the great Glenn Turner may find it difficult to hold on to his spot. 

 

Doubt any other current side has >=4 players who would make it to their all time XI. Bangladesh doesn't count and India will have a few players (4-5?) who might walk into AT side in specific conditions (still debatable), not in all conditions like NZ.

 

What say folks? Have any other NZ side in mind, from the past? 

this is the best NZ squad of all time, that is beyond a doubt in my mind. my all-time XI would be as follows ignoring current players:

 

Glenn Turner

Andrew Jones (don't forget Andrew Jones with a very fine 44+ avg in that era)/ Richardson is a decent alternative

Stewie Dempster (regarded, perhaps rightly, as NZ's greatest batsman barring Kane)

Martin Crowe

Martin Donnelly (another prodigal talent, who got to play very few matches) - can be substituted with Bert Sutcliffe in which case Crowe can move down to 5

McCullum

Cairns

Vettori

Hadlee

Bond

Jack Cowie (superb fast-medium bowler, who was one of the best in the world in his era)

 

When the current squad is included, I would replace Donnelly with Taylor, Jones with Williamson, and maybe Turner with Latham. Watling would take over the gloves from Bazzie. Boult is a fine, fine bowler but the real question is whether he is better than Hadlee, Bond and Cowie. Hadlee was far better, and so was arguably Bond (because his extra pace adds that dimension). this brings it down to cowie vs boult. From what I have read and stats-wise, Cowie seems to be better than Boult. so, my final lineup would be:

 

Turner/Latham

Stewie Dempster

Williamson

Crowe

Taylor

Watling

Cairns

Vettori

Hadlee

Bond

Cowie

 

this is quite a fearsome NZ lineup. first, they bat till 9 comfortably and even 10 and 11 are not dummies. there are 3 diff types of pacers - genuine express pace (Bond), fast-medium with swing (cairns + hadlee), almost-fast with swing (cowie). and vettori is a very able bkacup bowler. what's more, both williamson and crowe are useful part-timers.

 

[Gollum]

@Vijy I am sure you have great knowledge about the old era NZ players but don't you think the sample size for many of those guys is too less to make them part of an AT XI? 

[putrevus]

They are best odi team from NZ.Other than Glenn Turner , Martin Crowe and Richard Hadlee in tests and Baz in odis.Their all time test team and odi teams will have most of these players.

Edited November 30, 2019 by putrevus

[Vijy]

1 hour ago, Gollum said:

@Vijy I am sure you have great knowledge about the old era NZ players but don't you think the sample size for many of those guys is too less to make them part of an AT XI? 

well, we can only make do with what we have... and their FC records also give us a bit (not a lot) of info. if you look at the final XI, I have only two genuine oldies - cowie and dempster. if I had to choose more modern players, it will be boult and jones, respectively.

[Vilander]

In tests yes. They are a very good side. Fun to watch. 

 

Thank ful that they emerged to replace the ailing SA.

[Vk1]

Its Neil Wagner who is the real deal in their side.. he is winning them tests on those highways on day 4 & 5.  Wonder how they would fare once he goes away even at home.

[Nikhil_cric]

5 hours ago, Vk1 said:

Its Neil Wagner who is the real deal in their side.. he is winning them tests on those highways on day 4 & 5.  Wonder how they would fare once he goes away even at home.

They have quite a few Saffer imports in their domestic and Wagner himself is one . They can bring in another. 

[Gollum]

Aus is a mental block for them, home and away. Otherwise a very good team this bunch of Kiwis. Humiliated the #1 side, series won in <6 days of cricket. 

[Gollum]

A few months back they crushed Eng at home as well. In these conditions Poms will be tricky to handle for any side. Before that series draw in SL, 2-1 win in UAE. 

[Adi_91]

NZ outside of their home country are just as pathetic as we are.

[Sgattick10]

Werent they hammered by the Aussies couple of weeks back? 

[Gollum]

2 minutes ago, Sgattick10 said:

Werent they hammered by the Aussies couple of weeks back? 

Yeah but Aus is a mental block for them. Apart from that, and when you look at their personnel a pretty darn good side. It is not like they had ATG teams in the past. 

[Sandeep99]

I'm not sure a win against a mediocre middling Indian side is really a great pointer.

[Frustrated]

This Nz side got whitewashed 0-3 to Aussies few weeks ago.  

[Gollum]

#1 ranked test side for the first time ever in their cricket history