Who could be the best bets for 4 & 5 positions for 50 overs

[prudent_kreeda]

Looking at current crop who could be the ideal guys for each of these spots at 4  & 5 in 50 overs match for India .?

Currently looking at Iyer , Pandey , KL, Mayank, Gill, Padikkal , Ruturaj Gaikwad.

Form may be up & down over a period , but what is considered is the game each has against pace , against spin , rotating the strike , Power hitting , Hitting ability against Pace for evaluation. Also it is assumed top 3 remain in good form and hence those are not changed . It is also assumed that Virat will take the mantle of attacking if needed when batting with No. 4 .

It is also assumed KL Rahul will be part of the core group and will always be in the eleven either playing at 4 or 5  if not playing at the top. . 

 

The ideal #4 should have these essential skills : 

> who will play  as an anchor at one end (i.e. will not get out easily )  so that will carry the last  15-20 overs along with lower order hitters. Hence good defense is required .

> They should not have apparent weakness against Pace or spin or Short stuff.

> Can rotate strike 

> Should have ability to play shots against pacers .

> Either hits sixes of spinners easily or good in hitting in gaps , so that can get boundaries often in middle overs .

Other good to have skills --

> Good fielder .

> Can bowl a few overs .

 

1. Players currently playing in MO .

Iyer :- 

 Pluses  -  Good against Spin , rotates the strike ,Can hit Sixes of spinners . 

             OK level skills  - Can play anchor role , ability to play shots vs average  pace 

             Minus - weakness against quality pace , unconvincing game against short stuff and below average attacking shots vs short bowling.     

             

Pandey :-   

Pluses  -  rotates the strike . Top fielder 

             OK level skills  - Can play anchor role , ability to play shots against pace & spin 

             There is not one exceptional ability which we can identify with Pandey based on his performance till last season , required for good No.4

             . (We may have to re look if there is any improvement this season ) .

 

KL Rahul :- 

 Pluses  -  Good against Pace , One of the  best in playing attacking shots against Pace .Power hitter .  No apparent weakness apart from play vs mystery spinners , quality spin at the start of innings .

    Minus - weakness against quality spin.

 

From players currently playing , KL Rahul would no. 1 contender if opposition team attack has more pacers and less quality spinners including mystery type..

 

2. Players yet to play in Middle overs :-

 

Mayank - Can anchor , Decent against Pace & spin , rotates the strike .

 Unknown -  consistency and ability to play in MO., Power hitting  

Gill  - 

No apparent weakness , may be the best to play anchor role at 4 , has ability to play shots against pace and a good player of short stuff. good against spin too.   

Minus - Power hitting

Unknown -  ability to rotate strike easily against quality pace as of now .  

Ruturaj -  Plays spin well  , good at finding gaps against spinners .

Unknown -  ability to Play pace . ability to play anchor role . ability to play attacking shots against pace .

Padikkal -   Power hitter against spin , a left hander .  Seem to have the ability to play as per situation . 

Unknown -  ability to Play short stuff .

Thus as of now if opposition has more pace attack - will play KL Rahul at 4 . 

Among others - Will play Iyer at 4 against  Aus, NZ  & England and if does not show improvement in his game against Pace , will try Mayank & Gill .

 

My hunch is its Gill & Kl Rahul ultimately  and  you will get the best out of both

 - by playing Gill at 4 to bring more stability and to hold one end up ,

  - by playing  KL at 5 , so that he plays more Pace bowling towards end of innings due to his ability to play attacking shots against pace .    

 

Eventually Rahul will move to opener position , hence need to prepare other alternatives - 

1. an improved iyer with better game against pace .

2. Padikkal

3. Ruturaj.

 

We should try  Padikkal in MO in T20s  first and if he plays Pace well then should be drafted in into 50 overs  for No. 5 spot .

Next in line should be  Rurutraj to see if he can be a back up for No. 4 . 

Samson, Pant  should be contenders for WK position. 

 

 

Edited January 18, 2020 by prudent_kreeda

[express bowling]

My choices

 

4. Gill ... because he can play both pace and spin ... can play strokes as well as rotate the strike. And is a proper batsman and top talent.

 

5. Rahul ... because he can hit the big shots against genuine quick bowlers too and can be an ideal finisher.  But because he is a proper batsman, he can stem the rot if a few quick wickets fall. 

 

6. Hardik ... Can play big shots off both pacers and spinners. Is a very high SR batsman. Can be a devastating finisher.  I don't want him at 7 as I want 5 proper bowlers to play  (  the one at 7 with batting and big hitting ability )

 

Iyer ... Many good qualities ... deserves a run, now that he has been trusted with the No.4 position. But his weakness against genuine pace has been a long time issue which he has not yet solved. 

 

Pant ... Top talent. But I would prefer Rahul over him at 5 for the time being. While he hones his skills for some more time and becomes better. 

[Ankit_sharma03]

This is for immediate future so im not considering guys like devdutt

 

At 4- KL, gill, mayank

At 5 - Pant, kishen

 

Let 1st give pant a proper backing n if needed extra. He is the kind of talent that needs extra backing that captains like dhoni n ganguly use to give.

After that lets think of making rahul keep. Also at what point do we start to look at phasing dhawan out

[Sgattick10]

Off topic - I'd like to see Paddikal and Rahul opening in T20.

[saik]

For next match, I would like to see

 

4. Shreyas Iyer/Pandey

5. Rahul

6. Shivam Dubey

[Suhaan]

46 minutes ago, Sgattick10 said:

Off topic - I'd like to see Paddikal and Rahul opening in T20.

Spot on,we need fresh and aggressive approach going forward

Let's see how Paddikal does in IPL

Edited January 18, 2020 by Suhaan

[Ankit_sharma03]

2 hours ago, Suhaan said:

Spot on,we need fresh and aggressive approach going forward

Let's see how Paddikal does in IPL

Im keeping my hopes low as he is in captain fragiles team

[Vijy]

On 1/18/2020 at 8:10 AM, express bowling said:

My choices

 

4. Gill ... because he can play both pace and spin ... can play strokes as well as rotate the strike. And is a proper batsman and top talent.

 

5. Rahul ... because he can hit the big shots against genuine quick bowlers too and can be an ideal finisher.  But because he is a proper batsman, he can stem the rot if a few quick wickets fall. 

 

6. Hardik ... Can play big shots off both pacers and spinners. Is a very high SR batsman. Can be a devastating finisher.  I don't want him at 7 as I want 5 proper bowlers to play  (  the one at 7 with batting and big hitting ability )

 

Iyer ... Many good qualities ... deserves a run, now that he has been trusted with the No.4 position. But his weakness against genuine pace has been a long time issue which he has not yet solved. 

 

Pant ... Top talent. But I would prefer Rahul over him at 5 for the time being. While he hones his skills for some more time and becomes better. 

Pandya should play at 7 if we can find another batting AR at 6. if not, then he should play at 6 and we should find a bowling AR at 7. both are hard to achieve.

 

I don't think Gill should play ahead of Iyer. his form is falling off over the past yr and he was not mentally ready when he played against NZ. Iyer may not be as good as gill is, but he is doing an efficient job. agree about rahul at 5. he can also keep and bring that balance.

 

As a left-field choice, I wonder if Mayank or Shaw have the game to play in middle order. Probably not.

[vishalvirsingh]

No 4...shreyas iyer

 

No 5 ...Gill is first choice..pandey is second 

 

 

[Vijy]

1 minute ago, vishalvirsingh said:

No 4...shreyas iyer

 

No 5 ...Gill is first choice..pandey is second 

 

 

who will keep in the team? I'm guessing you want Pant/KLR at 6?

[express bowling]

36 minutes ago, Vijy said:

Pandya should play at 7 if we can find another batting AR at 6. if not, then he should play at 6 and we should find a bowling AR at 7. both are hard to achieve.

 

We need a bowling all-rounder cum spinner cum big hitter at 7.

 

This allows us to play 3 proper pacers apart from Pandya + 2 proper spinner ... 6 bowling options.

 

Pandya and Bhuvi as 2 of the 3 pacers mean we have just 1 low average pacer and just 1 quick bowler in ODIs, both in the form of Bumrah.

 

For ODIs ... 

 

6.  Pandya / Dube

7. Spinner who can hit big 

8. Kuldeep

9. Shami

10. Saini

11. Bumrah

 

 

We should try Sundar, R.Chahar,  Gowtham, Axar, Gopal, etc.

 

R.Chahar has both batting as well as hitting ability.  Needs to work on his batting.

 

Not sure if Gopal can hit big.

 

[Vijy]

1 minute ago, express bowling said:

 

We need a bowling all-rounder cum spinner cum big hitter at 7.

 

This allows us to play 3 proper pacers apart from Pandya + 2 proper spinner ... 6 bowling options.

 

Pandya and Bhuvi as 2 of the 3 pacers mean we have just 1 low average pacer and just 1 quick bowler in ODIs, both in the form of Bumrah.

 

For ODIs ... 

 

6.  Pandya / Dube

7. Spinner who can hit big 

8. Kuldeep

9. Shami

10. Saini

11. Bumrah

 

 

We should try Sundar, R.Chahar,  Gowtham, Axar, Gopal, etc.

 

R.Chahar has both batting as well as hitting ability.  Needs to work on his batting.

 

Not sure if Gopal can hit big.

 

Gowtham seems too much of a hack bowling-wise; otherwise he would be ideal. of this bunch, I would take gopal. he scores at a SR of nearly 100 in List A. axar is also much improved - people like to diss him, but he has done okay in the chances he got. rahul chahar is a great prospect for the future, but needs more exposure.

 

I don't think we should be necessarily looking for spinner at 7. I am of the opinion that the best XI should play. if, hypothetically, we had a great bowling AR who bowls pace (like mavi and nagarkoti), then we should select him. it does not matter even if there are no spinners - WI dominated cricket without spinners and even Oz after Warne's retirement (Brad Hogg was very good, but not world class IMO).

[express bowling]

14 minutes ago, Vijy said:

Gowtham seems too much of a hack bowling-wise; otherwise he would be ideal. of this bunch, I would take gopal. he scores at a SR of nearly 100 in List A. axar is also much improved - people like to diss him, but he has done okay in the chances he got. rahul chahar is a great prospect for the future, but needs more exposure.

 

Axar 2.0  needs to be given a few chances.

 

Quote

 

I don't think we should be necessarily looking for spinner at 7. I am of the opinion that the best XI should play. if, hypothetically, we had a great bowling AR who bowls pace (like mavi and nagarkoti), then we should select him

 

Absolutely.

 

My suggestion was based on the fact that we don't have a good quality quick bowler who can bat at 7 and deserves a spot as just a bowler too.

 

If Mavi or Nagarkoti or Nalkande can become such players then they can be played at 7.

 

Quote

. it does not matter even if there are no spinners - WI dominated cricket without spinners and even Oz after Warne's retirement (Brad Hogg was very good, but not world class IMO).

 

I don't think that would happen in India. 

[zen]

There is no major ODI tourney till 2023. 2020 and 2021 would be focused on T20 WCs and WTC (Tests). We just played Aus in bilaterals, which ppl will forget/not care about soon. 
 

This is an opportunity to develop upcoming players such Pant, Iyer, Pandya, etc. These players have the potential, they need opportunity and experience of playing at key slots for a relatively longer period in international games 

 

 

[Vijy]

4 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

Axar 2.0  needs to be given a few chances.

 

If Mavi or Nagarkoti or Nalkande can become such players then they can be played at 7.

 

 

I don't think that would happen in India. 

Agree regd Axar.

 

I have not seen Nalkande bat much... and what I saw is rather raw. His bowling is very promising though.

 

With regards to spin, given the massive decline in spin reserves (coinciding with interest in pace bowling), we may even see a shift to all-pace attack in some conditions in the future.

[express bowling]

13 minutes ago, Vijy said:

 

With regards to spin, given the massive decline in spin reserves (coinciding with interest in pace bowling), we may even see a shift to all-pace attack in some conditions in the future.

 

While many of us won't mind that ... looking at the fact that Shami, in red hot form, was dropped in the WC 19 SF being played in England, to play 2 spinners who were not in the greatest of forms ... just shows the mindset of this TM.

[Vijy]

6 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

While many of us won't mind that ... looking at the fact that Shami, in red hot form, was dropped in the WC 19 SF being played in England, to play 2 spinners who were not in the greatest of forms ... just shows the mindset of this TM.

I agree. but it is a pity though that our spin tradition (which stretches back to 50s) is coming to an end.

[express bowling]

9 minutes ago, Vijy said:

I agree. but it is a pity though that our spin tradition (which stretches back to 50s) is coming to an end.

 

Kuldeep, Strong-man Chahal,  Real Chahar, Bishnoi  give us hope.

[Vijy]

Just now, express bowling said:

 

Kuldeep, Strong-man Chahal,  Real Chahar, Bishnoi  give us hope.

Chahal is too 1D as a cricketer, and cannot make it to the cut in Tests. Kuldeep I think will fade away soon if he cannot add more revs and pace to his bowling. Let's see how Real C and Ravi B do.

[prudent_kreeda]

Way back couple of years i thought Ruturaj has something about him and thought he would be good option for MO for 50 overs matches. 

At that time i was convinced that he is very good in playing in gaps and playing over the head for boundaries . Plays late and uses the crease against spinners really well.

But was not sure if he is good against pace and can he play attacking shots against pace.

I think we have the answer now. He plays pace quite well too . Plays sweep and reverse sweep too . Can handle slower ones & Yorkers also decently as he watches till the very last minute and plays .

Still feel he is more suited to 50 overs than T20 . 

I would like to see 2 guys to be backed consistently and groom them -  Padikkal in T20 & Ruturaj in 50 Overs.