Have our LOI teams moved forward after last 6 months of our home season?

[ShoonyaSifar]

Post the WC, we have now had a tour to WI and a home season that nearly ran for 6 months starting with the series vs SA in August. While the results have been great (we won everything except for a drawn T20 series vs SA), has the home season helped moved our LOI teams move forward? Has it helped answer any of the concerns from the WC disaster

1. Reliance on a very heavy top 3

2. Middle order not getting consistent opportunities to bat higher up and bat many overs

3. Younger players not getting settled batting spots

4. A settled wk-batsman

5. Our lead pacers (other than Bumrah) and spinners (other than Jadeja)

 

IMO the answer to all of the above is a big NO. If Bhuvi was fit Shami wouldn't even have played LOI, if Dhoni was available, Pant/Rahul wouldn't even have got a chance. Dube did not get a game this series, we instead preferred to pick Pandey as the number 6.

 

Great to win a bilateral series which this team has been winning even before the WC. But I don't think enough been done to show 'the new approach' can win us an ICC trophy? So at the end of the 6 months, we seem to back to square one.

 

[mani sha]

1 hour ago, ShoonyaSifar said:

Post the WC, we have now had a tour to WI and a home season that nearly ran for 6 months starting with the series vs SA in August. While the results have been great (we won everything except for a drawn T20 series vs SA), has the home season helped moved our LOI teams move forward? Has it helped answer any of the concerns from the WC disaster

1. Reliance on a very heavy top 3

2. Middle order not getting consistent opportunities to bat higher up and bat many overs

3. Younger players not getting settled batting spots

4. A settled wk-batsman

5. Our lead pacers (other than Bumrah) and spinners (other than Jadeja)

 

IMO the answer to all of the above is a big NO. If Bhuvi was fit Shami wouldn't even have played LOI, if Dhoni was available, Pant/Rahul wouldn't even have got a chance. Dube did not get a game this series, we instead preferred to pick Pandey as the number 6.

 

Great to win a bilateral series which this team has been winning even before the WC. But I don't think enough been done to show 'the new approach' can win us an ICC trophy? So at the end of the 6 months, we seem to back to square one.

 

I beg to differ 

 

think no 1 - dada is on kohli with no trophy comment . Kohli is desperate l feel 

 

chances have been given to pant rahul saini dubey Shami to cement places . Shardul yadav look like confident chaps now . 
 

Kohli too is trying to play t20 aggressively - more sixes longer batting 

 

think dhoni not being around has freed up Kohli mind . I have a feeling we will be in t20 finals if pandya is back ( still need firepower in Lower order ) 

hoping to see shaw in the mix

[prudent_kreeda]

 Think WI & AUS  series were positive .

There seems to be some answers  found for our issues . 

1. What is the best combination for India -?   I think these series have shown that 3 out & out pacers with very good skills at death bowling is the go to option.

2. Looks like we have found a right  3rd  pacer who can bowl at  any stage of the match in Navdeep Saini.  THIS IS the BIGGEST PLUS for me . His performance in first 3 50 overs against a side like AUS was very good , needs some more work re: control 

3.  With KL keeping wickets and with PANT , its almost  certain  we need not endure the torture of MSD any more . ANOTHER BIG PLUS .

4. One of the slots in the lower middle seem to  have been filled up - KL at 5 if Dhawan  maintains his form throughout  till 2023. But personally i want a change .

5. We have a very good opening pair in Rohit & KL if needed . So one of the opener slot is filled in when needed by KL .

6. No.4  - Though Iyer not cemented his place  ,there were positive signals esp. the way he approached last ODI with a counter strategy against Short stuff. 

What we need now is- 

1. Identify second opener -  Selectors should bring in Shaw .

2. Alternative #4 for 50 overs - Test Gill esp if KL moves to opening slot , so that Iyer can move to 5. Also if Iyer fails at 4 gill comes in. 

3.  Help Pant to get to the groove  by giving him some matches in atleast one of the shorter version till he finds back his confidence with better shot selection & execution. 

4. Develop 2nd seam all rounder - Test Dubey 

5. Find an alternative for Chahal -

6. Drop - Kedar & Shardul .

7. Drop Dhawan from T20 and play Shaw at the top .

 

 

 

 

Edited January 20, 2020 by prudent_kreeda

[Cricwala]

Some positive signs in ODIs if captain CONTINUES with these players 

 

Top 3 is locked, no point fighting it

Iyer at 4 (ideally i wld swap Kohli and iyers position)

KL at 5 (give him gloves, send Pant back to domestics and bring Samson as reserve - Pant needs a patient, supportive captain to work out issues in his game, he's not going to get that from Kohli so best he goes back to domestics and comes back as finished product)

Pandya at 6 

Jadeja 7 (if Kohli trusts him, he should just back him)

Kuldeep, Saini, Bumrah, Shami shld be first choice attack (yes, Kuldeep has been sub-par, but still has that x-factor, he needs to work hard on both bowling and fielding though..give him this full year)

 

Samson, pandey, R chahar, Bhuvi, Shaw shld complete squad of 16 

 

T20s squad is still in chaos.

 

[CoverDrive]

29 minutes ago, Cricwala said:

Some positive signs in ODIs if captain CONTINUES with these players 

 

Top 3 is locked, no point fighting it

Iyer at 4 (ideally i wld swap Kohli and iyers position)

KL at 5 (give him gloves, send Pant back to domestics and bring Samson as reserve - Pant needs a patient, supportive captain to work out issues in his game, he's not going to get that from Kohli so best he goes back to domestics and comes back as finished product)

Pandya at 6 

Jadeja 7 (if Kohli trusts him, he should just back him)

Kuldeep, Saini, Bumrah, Shami shld be first choice attack (yes, Kuldeep has been sub-par, but still has that x-factor, he needs to work hard on both bowling and fielding though..give him this full year)

 

Samson, pandey, R chahar, Bhuvi, Shaw shld complete squad of 16 

 

T20s squad is still in chaos.

 

This is a good summary of situation as of now. Big positives were the three pacers bowling in death. Shami has that something extra needed to take wickets and Saini is very good complement to Bumrah who can now be used more to attack in middle overs

[ShoonyaSifar]

2 minutes ago, CoverDrive said:

This is a good summary of situation as of now. Big positives were the three pacers bowling in death. Shami has that something extra needed to take wickets and Saini is very good complement to Bumrah who can now be used more to attack in middle overs

Once Bhuvi and Pandya are back, will Kohli even play these three seamers? Bhuvi was preferred over a red hot Shami in a WC semis. Don't think the situation has changed much. Due to his lack of batting skills, Saini will always be a couple of matches away from being discarded (will not go by what Shastri said in the PC). 

[ShoonyaSifar]

 

54 minutes ago, Cricwala said:

Some positive signs in ODIs if captain CONTINUES with these players 

 

Top 3 is locked, no point fighting it

Iyer at 4 (ideally i wld swap Kohli and iyers position)

KL at 5 (give him gloves, send Pant back to domestics and bring Samson as reserve - Pant needs a patient, supportive captain to work out issues in his game, he's not going to get that from Kohli so best he goes back to domestics and comes back as finished product)

Pandya at 6 

Jadeja 7 (if Kohli trusts him, he should just back him)

Kuldeep, Saini, Bumrah, Shami shld be first choice attack (yes, Kuldeep has been sub-par, but still has that x-factor, he needs to work hard on both bowling and fielding though..give him this full year)

 

Samson, pandey, R chahar, Bhuvi, Shaw shld complete squad of 16 

 

T20s squad is still in chaos.

 

A permanent top 3, with all of them 31+,  will continue to hurt us. Between 4, 5 and 6 the musical chair will continue. Kohli is not gong to let any one of them settle. Likewise with Saini, Shami and Kuldeep. Kohli will keep rotating them at his whim. Only Jadeja and Bumrah have a fixed spot and when fit, {andya, Bhuvi 

 

So basically out LOI team looks like Top 3, batsman 4, batsman 5, Pandya, Jadeja, Bhuvi, spinner 2, Bumrah, pacer 2. Which is exactly how the WC team was. Wigth that same approach, well be having the same results.

[Ankit_sharma03]

Positives

1. Saini
2. KL 
3. Iyer
4. Thakur- yup even is a positive....not a bad backup
5. Deepak chahar
6. kuldeep finding some form 

Negatives

1. Still jadhav finds a place
2. KL still doesnt knw his batting position
3. After messing KL now its will be pant
4. Dubey not given chances
5. Iyer issues have also been found out
6. Keeper kon?

 

But to sum it up we now have more options but its doesnt end there its also about choosing right option n clearly thats not kohli's forte. He is a reactive captain not a visionary even if has vision he has no patience. Ajay jadeja once rightly said bout him- Dont give kohli to many option he is better when he doesnt have much .

Eg-One day Thakur is 1st choice next day he isnt

[Cricwala]

9 minutes ago, ShoonyaSifar said:

 

A permanent top 3, with all of them 31+,  will continue to hurt us. Between 4, 5 and 6 the musical chair will continue. Kohli is not gong to let any one of them settle. Likewise with Saini, Shami and Kuldeep. Kohli will keep rotating them at his whim. Only Jadeja and Bumrah have a fixed spot and when fit, {andya, Bhuvi 

 

So basically out LOI team looks like Top 3, batsman 4, batsman 5, Pandya, Jadeja, Bhuvi, spinner 2, Bumrah, pacer 2. Which is exactly how the WC team was. Wigth that same approach, well be having the same results.

Thats why I said the magic word in caps - CONTINUITY....all this unsolicited analysis is only useful assuming the captain has matured and starts exhibiting consistency in his decision-making. If he doesn't enter the upcoming tournaments with a settled squad, chances of success are slim.

[prudent_kreeda]

15 minutes ago, Cricwala said:

Thats why I said the magic word in caps - CONTINUITY....all this unsolicited analysis is only useful assuming the captain has matured and starts exhibiting consistency in his decision-making. If he doesn't enter the upcoming tournaments with a settled squad, chances of success are slim.

      For that need a good selectors who include players based on potential with long term outlook. No favourites of TM. 

[Shaukat]

Indians Folks...You would be Naive to have your hopes high in kohli. He is wicked mind He will play the manish's jadhav's shreyas and so on here and there coz they dont pose too great of threat to his image 

If he was interested he would have straight away drafted Gill and Rahul in and made them feel at home by now Instead he found ways to keep them out one way or another . He will do that Until he feels he has had enough with game .

[putrevus]

6 hours ago, ShoonyaSifar said:

 

A permanent top 3, with all of them 31+,  will continue to hurt us. Between 4, 5 and 6 the musical chair will continue. Kohli is not gong to let any one of them settle. Likewise with Saini, Shami and Kuldeep. Kohli will keep rotating them at his whim. Only Jadeja and Bumrah have a fixed spot and when fit, {andya, Bhuvi 

 

So basically out LOI team looks like Top 3, batsman 4, batsman 5, Pandya, Jadeja, Bhuvi, spinner 2, Bumrah, pacer 2. Which is exactly how the WC team was. Wigth that same approach, well be having the same results.

Say you were the selector who had the say in everything.What would have done differently  during the homeseason and how would it change this team now and future.

[ShoonyaSifar]

25 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Say you were the selector who had the say in everything.What would have done differently  during the homeseason and how would it change this team now and future.

Lots of things

1. Only one out of top 3 would have played at a time with no place for Dhawan in T20s (played and wasted 11 T20s) with Rohit doing bulk of LOI captaincy vs stronger teams

2. KL Rahul and Gill would have opened in every match across LOIs, occasionally trying out Pant as T20 opener

3. Iyer would have got more opportunities at number 3 especially during chases (esp in ODIs)

4. SKY would have played at least some T20s

5. Dube would have bowled a few more overs

6. In T20s vs BD and SL Rahul would have been the captain

7. Pant Would have played every match with Samson as the T20 backup 

8. KulCha would have played together as much as possible, if not them then Rahul Chahar or Mayank Markande, no going back to defensive SLA (and no place for Jadeja, Gopal as his LOI replacement)

9. Saini, Siraj, Warrier, Rajpoot would have played more matches. Only one out of  Bhuvi/Shardul/Chahar would play, if possible none

 

Above all Kohli and Bumrah would have got a 3-4 month break after the WC

 

Instead what we got was top 3 filling their boots (like always) and not many attacking young spinners or pacers getting chances

[putrevus]

2 minutes ago, ShoonyaSifar said:

Lots of things

1. Only one out of top 3 would have played at a time with no place for Dhawan in T20s (played and wasted 11 T20s) with Rohit doing bulk of LOI captaincy vs stronger teams

2. KL Rahul and Gill would have opened in every match across LOIs, occasionally trying out Pant as T20 opener

3. Iyer would have got more opportunities at number 3 especially during chases (esp in ODIs)

4. SKY would have played at least some T20s

5. Dube would have bowled a few more overs

6. In T20s vs BD and SL Rahul would have been the captain

7. Pant Would have played every match with Samson as the T20 backup 

8. KulCha would have played together as much as possible, if not them then Rahul Chahar or Mayank Markande, no going back to defensive SLA (and no place for Jadeja, Gopal as his LOI replacement)

9. Saini, Siraj, Warrier, Rajpoot would have played more matches. Only one out of  Bhuvi/Shardul/Chahar would play, if possible none

 

Above all Kohli and Bumrah would have got a 3-4 month break after the WC

 

Instead what we got was top 3 filling their boots (like always) and not many attacking young spinners or pacers getting chances

Let us examine your points rationally.

 

1. Who among those top three which would have played and when they are not playing what are they supposed to do?

 

2. Gill and Rahul say did marvellous thruout homeseason as openers? what happens to NZ tour and beyond, what exactly has your plan accomplished then?

 

3.Why give Iyer no3 spot only in chases??

 

4. Why should Kohli and Bumrah take 3-4 month break? Did they do anything wrong?

 

5. What are you accomplishing by having Rahul as captain??????

 

6.Pant did play all matches except ones he was injured?

 

Let us examine these first then we will go with bowlers in next part.

 

[Kohlifan]

as long as Rahul is keeping the wickets in LOI's I think we are in good shape. I still don't get confidence on Pant. Every now n then this guy plays a shot out of no where to get out & look silly.