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Harsh Thakor

Who was the most lethal West Indian paceman of all after Malcolm Marshall?

Who was the most lethal West Indian paceman of all after Malcolm Marshall?  

14 members have voted

  1. 1. Who was the most lethal West Indian paceman of all after Malcolm Marshall?

    • Curtly Ambrose
    • Andy Roberts
    • Courtney Walsh
      0
    • Michael Holding
    • Joel Garner
      0
    • Ian Bishop
      0
    • Patrick Paterson
      0
    • Sylvetser Clarke
      0
    • Wes Hall
      0
    • Colin Croft
      0
    • Charlie Griffith
      0
    • Gary Sobers


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Without doubt Malcolm Marshall was the most lethal right arm pace bowler,let alone West Indian pace bowler of all.No pace bowler from the Carribean was as complete or as creative or could conceal his deliveries to such a degree.

To me the most fascinating question is which West Indian pacemen came closest to Marshall in all-round cricketing skill,creativity or in terms of hostility.

Michael Holding was marginally quicker with a more perfect action .Curtly Ambrose and Joel Garner were even more accurate.Courtney Walsh was more of a metronome with more stamina .

To me the one who came closest to Marshall was Andy Roberts.In the classical sense Andy was more complete and posessed greater mastery in varying pace of bouncers.No bowler ever disguised his bouncers as well .Andy was regarded as the most complete paceman of his day by none other than Dennis Lillee .Sunil Gavaskar,Barry Richards and the Chappell brothers felt he was the best fast bowler they faced with Lillee with Gavaskar even ranking him ahead.Sunny felt no paceman could cut back a 120 over old ball in hi s time or was as intelligent.The others felt even if Holding was quicker,it was Roberts who had the greater variety and was more unpredictable.His bouncer at different speeds was often unreadable.Any mastered the bouncer,oustwinger and slower ball with an occasional off cutter.For sheer craftsmanship he was in the Wasim Akram class.Worth seeing his successive dismissal of the Chappell brothers at Adelaide in 1979-80 as well as those of Sunil Gavaskar earlier.

Classically Holding had the best action and has the credit of bowling the best over ever and best overall spell ever in a test.For sheer sustained pace or straight pace bowling no pacemen equalled Holding's effort at the Oval in 1976 or in the over at Barbados in 1981 when he dislodged Boycott.No pacemen ever posessed as much speed through the air as Holding who resembled a Rolls Royce car.Holding's throat ball was more devastating than anyone and he had a better inswinger than even Roberts.In Australia in 1981-82 he was arguably even the equal of Marshall blending pace with movement.Holding could obtain pace even from a slow surface which was remarkable.Few pacemen ever could galvanize as much energy in their delivery stride as Michael or bamboozle batsmen with sheer space as Holding.Significant that Imran Khan rates Holding at the top while Mike Procter chooses him in his all-time xi and so does Asif Iqbal and Majid Khan.Holding was not as crafty or versatile as partner Andy but in a total package may have been more lethal at his best.Cricket writer John Woodcock placed Holding at the very top of Carribean pacemen.


Joel Garner had the best yorker and was at the helm in terms of accuracy.With his great height his disconcerting bounce could be unplayable.For a time in the 1980's he was the best pace bowler,more relentless and accurate than even Richard Hadlee.Arguably we hardly saw enough of Joel with the new ball which may have done injustice to his capability.Garner bowled some great spells towards the end opening his attack.

Courtney Walsh was the ultimate metronome and close to the most intelligent who could be more deceptive than even Ambrose.Not as quick as Marshall or Holding,but his oustwinger could be lethal as well as his short balls.

Finally let us come to Curtly Ambrose.At his best even Marshall was not as explosive,destructive or volatile as Curtly who could rip of the flseh of a batting line up more than anyone.In full throttle no paceman resembled a cowboy mowing down his opponents with a revolver as much as Ambrose.No pacemen was as relentless or accurate apart from Garner. Ambrose hardly swung or did so much with the ball but crated more vertical bounce than anyone .No batsmen resembled a robotic machine or a combing operation carried on by an army as Curtly.On a broken track he would mesmerize batsmen with the hostility of a swordsman piercing flesh.To me in his best spells at Trinidad in 1994 and Perth in 1992-93 he was arguably harder to tackle than any pacemen ever.However Ambrose was not at his best on the slower wickets or genuine cricket tracks and could become predictable.On flat tracks it was Walsh who had more of an armoury,particularly on the sub-continent.Ambrose was a more fiery version of Garner with a wider armoury.

Taking all factors into consideration I would choose Andy Roberts as he proved himself on the slower sub-continent tracks and posed a greater threat to the best batsmen of his day after Marshall.Holding and Ambrose at their best in a spell on a certain day or in given conditions may have been right up there ,but consistently did not equal Roberts overall skill.It is strange as Holding had the most classically correct action of all while Ambrose could take hostility to heights never traversed.

If I had to choose 2 great West Indian pacemen who when moulded into one could match or surpass Marshall more than anyone then it would be Roberts and Ambrose.The guile of Roberts with the accuracy or Andy could make the ultimate pacemen.

In the end it was a photo-finish to decide Marshall's runner up berth in the Carribean pace battery.

Edited by Harsh Thakor

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3 hours ago, Harsh Thakor said:

For sheer craftsmanship he was in the Wasim Akram class.

 

3 hours ago, Harsh Thakor said:

.Significant that Imran Khan rates Holding at the top while Mike Procter chooses him in his all-time xi and so does Asif Iqbal and Majid Khan.


Even on a topic on WI bowlers, you still somehow have to insert Pak players  :facepalm: 

Edited by zen

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3 hours ago, Harsh Thakor said:

Significant that Imran Khan rates Holding at the top while Mike Procter chooses him in his all-time xi and so does Asif Iqbal and Majid Khan.

Thats decided then. Its Maajid Khan he is the most lethal pakiatani batsman after wi bowler malcom marshal.

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On 2/14/2020 at 5:59 PM, Harsh Thakor said:

Without doubt Malcolm Marshall was the most lethal right arm pace bowler,let alone West Indian pace bowler of all.No pace bowler from the Carribean was as complete or as creative or could conceal his deliveries to such a degree.

To me the most fascinating question is which West Indian pacemen came closest to Marshall in all-round cricketing skill,creativity or in terms of hostility.

Michael Holding was marginally quicker with a more perfect action .Curtly Ambrose and Joel Garner were even more accurate.Courtney Walsh was more of a metronome with more stamina .

To me the one who came closest to Marshall was Andy Roberts.In the classical sense Andy was more complete and posessed greater mastery in varying pace of bouncers.No bowler ever disguised his bouncers as well .Andy was regarded as the most complete paceman of his day by none other than Dennis Lillee .Sunil Gavaskar,Barry Richards and the Chappell brothers felt he was the best fast bowler they faced with Lillee with Gavaskar even ranking him ahead.Sunny felt no paceman could cut back a 120 over old ball in hi s time or was as intelligent.The others felt even if Holding was quicker,it was Roberts who had the greater variety and was more unpredictable.His bouncer at different speeds was often unreadable.Any mastered the bouncer,oustwinger and slower ball with an occasional off cutter.For sheer craftsmanship he was in the Wasim Akram class.Worth seeing his successive dismissal of the Chappell brothers at Adelaide in 1979-80 as well as those of Sunil Gavaskar earlier.

Classically Holding had the best action and has the credit of bowling the best over ever and best overall spell ever in a test.For sheer sustained pace or straight pace bowling no pacemen equalled Holding's effort at the Oval in 1976 or in the over at Barbados in 1981 when he dislodged Boycott.No pacemen ever posessed as much speed through the air as Holding who resembled a Rolls Royce car.Holding's throat ball was more devastating than anyone and he had a better inswinger than even Roberts.In Australia in 1981-82 he was arguably even the equal of Marshall blending pace with movement.Holding could obtain pace even from a slow surface which was remarkable.Few pacemen ever could galvanize as much energy in their delivery stride as Michael or bamboozle batsmen with sheer space as Holding.Significant that Imran Khan rates Holding at the top while Mike Procter chooses him in his all-time xi and so does Asif Iqbal and Majid Khan.Holding was not as crafty or versatile as partner Andy but in a total package may have been more lethal at his best.Cricket writer John Woodcock placed Holding at the very top of Carribean pacemen.


Joel Garner had the best yorker and was at the helm in terms of accuracy.With his great height his disconcerting bounce could be unplayable.For a time in the 1980's he was the best pace bowler,more relentless and accurate than even Richard Hadlee.Arguably we hardly saw enough of Joel with the new ball which may have done injustice to his capability.Garner bowled some great spells towards the end opening his attack.

Courtney Walsh was the ultimate metronome and close to the most intelligent who could be more deceptive than even Ambrose.Not as quick as Marshall or Holding,but his oustwinger could be lethal as well as his short balls.

Finally let us come to Curtly Ambrose.At his best even Marshall was not as explosive,destructive or volatile as Curtly who could rip of the flseh of a batting line up more than anyone.In full throttle no paceman resembled a cowboy mowing down his opponents with a revolver as much as Ambrose.No pacemen was as relentless or accurate apart from Garner. Ambrose hardly swung or did so much with the ball but crated more vertical bounce than anyone .No batsmen resembled a robotic machine or a combing operation carried on by an army as Curtly.On a broken track he would mesmerize batsmen with the hostility of a swordsman piercing flesh.To me in his best spells at Trinidad in 1994 and Perth in 1992-93 he was arguably harder to tackle than any pacemen ever.However Ambrose was not at his best on the slower wickets or genuine cricket tracks and could become predictable.On flat tracks it was Walsh who had more of an armoury,particularly on the sub-continent.Ambrose was a more fiery version of Garner with a wider armoury.

Taking all factors into consideration I would choose Andy Roberts as he proved himself on the slower sub-continent tracks and posed a greater threat to the best batsmen of his day after Marshall.Holding and Ambrose at their best in a spell on a certain day or in given conditions may have been right up there ,but consistently did not equal Roberts overall skill.It is strange as Holding had the most classically correct action of all while Ambrose could take hostility to heights never traversed.

If I had to choose 2 great West Indian pacemen who when moulded into one could match or surpass Marshall more than anyone then it would be Roberts and Ambrose.The guile of Roberts with the accuracy or Andy could make the ultimate pacemen.

In the end it was a photo-finish to decide Marshall's runner up berth in the Carribean pace battery.

You clearly haven't watched Croft bowl. Croft could bowl many variations in bouncers than Marshall did. And Croft disguised them much better as well than Marshall. marshall was better bowler but Croft was better in the highlighted aspect.

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