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What if the Kashmir conflict never existed?


SecondSlip

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LOL No

 

No going back after what happened in 1946-48, even if you forget Kashmir the partition riots saga has no equal in modern world history. Besides after what we did to them in 1971 (had to happen sooner or later) no way would they have tried for good relations...breaking the country into two, one of the most crushing ass kickings in modern military history, splitting their population/area 50:50->destroyed their psyche and made Pak state/army lose its mental balance even more. And their identity is based on hate for India/kafirs, without having India as enemy how could they justify their existence and the Pakistan Movement? 

Edited by Gollum
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Our relationship with Pakistan would have been maybe at a similar level to say what we have with Bangladesh today.

 

A few Bollywood types also known as pieces of garbage would have their wet dreams come true though. You will see a lot of musicians, actors from across the border get opportunities. I mean a lotttt of them.

 

We helped liberate Bangladesh but still it’s not like we have a lovey- dovey relationship with them.

 

How many countries share border or like in India’s case mostly surrounded by  Islamic nations and have a cordial relationship with them?

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Gollum said:

LOL No

 

No going back after what happened in 1946-48, even if you forget Kashmir the partition riots saga has no equal in modern world history. Besides after what we did to them in 1971 (had to happen sooner or later) no way would they have tried for good relations...breaking the country into two, one of the most crushing ass kickings in modern military history, splitting their population/area 50:50->destroyed their psyche and made Pak state/army lose its mental balance even more. And their identity is based on hate for India/kafirs, without having India as enemy how could they justify their existence and the Pakistan Movement? 

Funny thing is the ones who benefitted  from 1971 hate us as well for the most part. May be and hopefully there are a few good ones.

 

This transcends beyond national identity, it is a purely ideological  and that will never let cordial relationship exist with India 
 

 

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Look at Afghanistan and Iran, 2 Islamic states/theocracies....kattar Muslim societies. No major dispute with Pakistan remotely comparable with Kashmir.....hasn't Pak tried to destabilize them? Esp Afghanistan, I mean come on significant number of Pakistanis have cultural/ethinic link with Afg and even name their missiles after Ghori, Ghazni, Abdali->all Afghans. Ask a common Afghan today what his country has gone through because of ISI/PakMil.....will give a clue. 

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1 hour ago, SecondSlip said:

Could India and Pakistan be the best allies because of their shared culture, food and basically every other thing?

In an ideal world yes but think about this in realistic terms, a person leaves your family by saying I don't want to live with you as I think my people are not safe with you. His whole existence is based on the principle that I would do much better without you. If after few years he notices that you are progressing very fast but you also have lot of weak points too, what will he do? To prove that he was right, he will exploit those weak points.

 

To be an Ally, Pakistan will have to accept the current reality which would also mean that they will have to accept that they were wrong which would actually question their whole existence so it's not possible as the leaders of that country will keep their people in dark always.

 

Bangladesh, technically broke from Pakistan and not India therefore we both countries do not have similar feeling towards each other like what we have with Pakistan.

 

So to answer if it was not Kashmir then there would have been some other point of conflict for both countries.

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35 minutes ago, Global.Baba said:

Our relationship with Pakistan would have been maybe at a similar level to say what we have with Bangladesh today.

Doubt it, Bangladeshis are way too timid and don't have any army or intelligence agency to speak of. Also not as radicalized as Pakistani society, there are still many Bangladeshis who are secular in spirit and give precedence to culture over religion. I am not kidding about the last part, there is an atheist undercurrent and many Bangladeshis hate the Islamists more than our so called liberal Indian Muslims....I can't imagine an equivalent of Shahbagh protests (2013) by Indian Muslims, radical Islamists who were influential and also powerful politicians (cabinet rank ministers) got hanged like dogs in the aftermath. Even though it has a state religion, BD constitution talks about secularism, their judiciary has upheld that part at least till now.  More than 20000 Islamists are in jail now after the targeted killing campaign of atheist (and critics of Islam) bloggers, no comparsion with Pakistan.

 

Also Mushfiqur gets a lot of hate on ICF, many here feel he hates India, happy that he got rejected by IPL. Maybe true but I desist from hating someone with a spine. I remember some 5-6 years back he wished Bangladeshi Hindus for Durga Puja with many pics of the Goddess. Some Islamists (JEI) abused him, threatened him, asked him to take down his post. He didn't, instead he used some harsh language (in colloquial Bengali) and said that Bangladeshi Hindus will always be more dear to him that JEI scum or something like that. Bangladeshi Hindus can achieve higher positions compared to kafirs in Pakistan, in Bangladeshi movie industry Hindu actors have been paired up with Muslim actresses (romance) eg Chanchal Chowdhury See the difference? 

Quote

How many countries share border or like in India’s case mostly surrounded by  Islamic nations and have a cordial relationship with them?

None, only comparable country is Israel in terms of history/hostility. Very difficult to survive with such geography. Maybe in Africa...not sure, have to check the map, Kenya has enough problems because of Islamic aggresson, shares border with Somalia...not surrounded by enemies as such. 

Edited by Gollum
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@Global.Baba I have come across inter-religious marriages sans conversion in BD where husband is Hindu, wife Muslim. One step further I have travelled with a couple from Chittagong who came to India for medical treatment, wife who hails from a Muslim family adopted a Hindu name and was practising her husband's religion. BD has a Special Marriage Act like India, Pak will implode if anything close to that is brought into effect. 

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I am not someone who goes on praising BD but when the competition is Pak, need to support them :((

 

Bangladesh's intangible cultural heritage UNESCO:

Baul songs ....many Muslims who take inspiration from Hinduism (bhakti movement) and Buddhism

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Bauls belong to an unorthodox devotional tradition, influenced by Hinduism, Buddhism, Bengali, Vasinavism and Sufi Islam, yet distinctly different from them. Bauls neither identify with any organized religion nor with the caste system, special deities, temples or sacred places. Their emphasis lies on the importance of a person’s physical body as the place where God resides. Bauls are admired for this freedom from convention as well as their music and poetry. Baul poetry, music, song and dance are devoted to finding humankind’s relationship to God, and to achieving spiritual liberation. Their devotional songs can be traced back to the fifteenth century when they first appeared in Bengali literature.

Mangal Shobhajatra on Pahela Baishakh

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mass procession that takes place at dawn on the first day of the Bengali New Year in Bangladesh.[1] The procession is organised by the teachers and students of the Faculty of Fine Arts of Dhaka University.[2] The festival is considered an expression of the secular identity of the Bangladeshi people and as a way to promote unity.

Image result for Mangal Shobhajatra on Pahela BaishakhImage result for Mangal Shobhajatra on Pahela BaishakhImage result for Mangal Shobhajatra on Pahela Baishakh

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15 hours ago, Global.Baba said:

Our relationship with Pakistan would have been maybe at a similar level to say what we have with Bangladesh today.

 

A few Bollywood types also known as pieces of garbage would have their wet dreams come true though. You will see a lot of musicians, actors from across the border get opportunities. I mean a lotttt of them.

 

We helped liberate Bangladesh but still it’s not like we have a lovey- dovey relationship with them.

 

How many countries share border or like in India’s case mostly surrounded by  Islamic nations and have a cordial relationship with them?

 

 

Why do Bollywood directors give those idiots roles but not to actresses from our other neighbours like Bangladesh, Sri Lanka & Nepal. All 3 countries have lots of beautiful women that can easily work as leading actresses in various Bollywood films. What is this love affair with Pakistan that Bollywood has? 
 

I only mentioned actresses because I am a boy, I don’t judge male actors :lol:

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1 hour ago, SecondSlip said:

Why do Bollywood directors give those idiots roles but not to actresses from our other neighbours like Bangladesh, Sri Lanka & Nepal. All 3 countries have lots of beautiful women that can easily work as leading actresses in various Bollywood films. What is this love affair with Pakistan that Bollywood has? 
 

I only mentioned actresses because I am a boy, I don’t judge male actors :lol:

Manisha Koirala and Jacqueline Fernandes say hello to you. None of Pakistani actress is even closer to their popularity.

 

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16 hours ago, Gollum said:

LOL No

 

No going back after what happened in 1946-48, even if you forget Kashmir the partition riots saga has no equal in modern world history. Besides after what we did to them in 1971 (had to happen sooner or later) no way would they have tried for good relations...breaking the country into two, one of the most crushing ass kickings in modern military history, splitting their population/area 50:50->destroyed their psyche and made Pak state/army lose its mental balance even more. And their identity is based on hate for India/kafirs, without having India as enemy how could they justify their existence and the Pakistan Movement? 

Without Kashmir conflict India had not interfer in BD?  Whether BD existed or not is different story but surely India would not be in war without any conflict with Pakistan.

Edited by Singh bling
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Kashmir conflict exists because of Pakistan's decision to attack Kashmir (sent its soldiers disguised as Kabalis), forcing Kashmir to take the decision to join India .... If Pak had not attacked Kashmir, it probably had the option to become an independent country too :dontknow:

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Only possible if both nations follow the true Secular Value. 

 

But just opposite of the Secularism is happening in both countries, and Pakistani society should be blamed for initiating it. 

 

Actually, even the Indian Muslims were unable to show the true secular approach. They believe more in religious values than in the secular values. They don't allow free inter-religion marriages. 

 

In my opinion, different factions in a society get "integrated" only when "marriages" are taking place among those factions. 

 

If marriages don't take place, then these factions could live at same place for hundreds or thousands of years, but they will not "integrate" with each other. 

 

Therefore, I have forgotten to dream about good Pak/Indian relationship, I am not even hopeful for Indian Muslims and Indian Hindus to live with each other with peace and love. 

 

Contrary to India, inter-religion marriages are little more common in some African countries (Muslims marrying with other communities). The situation in those African countries is little better than India. 

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15 hours ago, Gollum said:

Doubt it, Bangladeshis are way too timid and don't have any army or intelligence agency to speak of. Also not as radicalized as Pakistani society, there are still many Bangladeshis who are secular in spirit and give precedence to culture over religion. I am not kidding about the last part, there is an atheist undercurrent and many Bangladeshis hate the Islamists more than our so called liberal Indian Muslims....I can't imagine an equivalent of Shahbagh protests (2013) by Indian Muslims, radical Islamists who were influential and also powerful politicians (cabinet rank ministers) got hanged like dogs in the aftermath. Even though it has a state religion, BD constitution talks about secularism, their judiciary has upheld that part at least till now.  More than 20000 Islamists are in jail now after the targeted killing campaign of atheist (and critics of Islam) bloggers, no comparsion with Pakistan.

 

Also Mushfiqur gets a lot of hate on ICF, many here feel he hates India, happy that he got rejected by IPL. Maybe true but I desist from hating someone with a spine. I remember some 5-6 years back he wished Bangladeshi Hindus for Durga Puja with many pics of the Goddess. Some Islamists (JEI) abused him, threatened him, asked him to take down his post. He didn't, instead he used some harsh language (in colloquial Bengali) and said that Bangladeshi Hindus will always be more dear to him that JEI scum or something like that. Bangladeshi Hindus can achieve higher positions compared to kafirs in Pakistan, in Bangladeshi movie industry Hindu actors have been paired up with Muslim actresses (romance) eg Chanchal Chowdhury See the difference? 

None, only comparable country is Israel in terms of history/hostility. Very difficult to survive with such geography. Maybe in Africa...not sure, have to check the map, Kenya has enough problems because of Islamic aggresson, shares border with Somalia...not surrounded by enemies as such. 

Guess that boils down to being Bengalis under the Muslim identity, a culture that doesn't celebrate Wars, Conquets or aspires domination . Bengali Culture is very feminine unlike the Punjabi,  Pashtun,  Haryanvi or Maratha cultures which are too toxic and hyper masculine. Bangaldeshis are content in celebrating Poila Boisakh, listening to Rabindra Sangeet and do not worship Invaders or fantasize about the glorious Islamic past of India  unlike Pakistani or even Indian Muslims. 

 

If we consider Hindu Bengalis and Pakistani ( Punjabi/Pashtun ) Muslims as two ends of the extreme then the Bangaldeshis would be in the middle.  Their Muslimness prohibits  them from being full overblown liberals like Bengali Hindus and their Bengaliness prohibits them from becoming religious zealots like the Pakistanis. 

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