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SecondSlip

What if the Kashmir conflict never existed?

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LOL No

 

No going back after what happened in 1946-48, even if you forget Kashmir the partition riots saga has no equal in modern world history. Besides after what we did to them in 1971 (had to happen sooner or later) no way would they have tried for good relations...breaking the country into two, one of the most crushing ass kickings in modern military history, splitting their population/area 50:50->destroyed their psyche and made Pak state/army lose its mental balance even more. And their identity is based on hate for India/kafirs, without having India as enemy how could they justify their existence and the Pakistan Movement? 

Edited by Gollum

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Our relationship with Pakistan would have been maybe at a similar level to say what we have with Bangladesh today.

 

A few Bollywood types also known as pieces of garbage would have their wet dreams come true though. You will see a lot of musicians, actors from across the border get opportunities. I mean a lotttt of them.

 

We helped liberate Bangladesh but still it’s not like we have a lovey- dovey relationship with them.

 

How many countries share border or like in India’s case mostly surrounded by  Islamic nations and have a cordial relationship with them?

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Gollum said:

LOL No

 

No going back after what happened in 1946-48, even if you forget Kashmir the partition riots saga has no equal in modern world history. Besides after what we did to them in 1971 (had to happen sooner or later) no way would they have tried for good relations...breaking the country into two, one of the most crushing ass kickings in modern military history, splitting their population/area 50:50->destroyed their psyche and made Pak state/army lose its mental balance even more. And their identity is based on hate for India/kafirs, without having India as enemy how could they justify their existence and the Pakistan Movement? 

Funny thing is the ones who benefitted  from 1971 hate us as well for the most part. May be and hopefully there are a few good ones.

 

This transcends beyond national identity, it is a purely ideological  and that will never let cordial relationship exist with India 
 

 

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Look at Afghanistan and Iran, 2 Islamic states/theocracies....kattar Muslim societies. No major dispute with Pakistan remotely comparable with Kashmir.....hasn't Pak tried to destabilize them? Esp Afghanistan, I mean come on significant number of Pakistanis have cultural/ethinic link with Afg and even name their missiles after Ghori, Ghazni, Abdali->all Afghans. Ask a common Afghan today what his country has gone through because of ISI/PakMil.....will give a clue. 

Edited by Gollum

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1 hour ago, SecondSlip said:

Could India and Pakistan be the best allies because of their shared culture, food and basically every other thing?

In an ideal world yes but think about this in realistic terms, a person leaves your family by saying I don't want to live with you as I think my people are not safe with you. His whole existence is based on the principle that I would do much better without you. If after few years he notices that you are progressing very fast but you also have lot of weak points too, what will he do? To prove that he was right, he will exploit those weak points.

 

To be an Ally, Pakistan will have to accept the current reality which would also mean that they will have to accept that they were wrong which would actually question their whole existence so it's not possible as the leaders of that country will keep their people in dark always.

 

Bangladesh, technically broke from Pakistan and not India therefore we both countries do not have similar feeling towards each other like what we have with Pakistan.

 

So to answer if it was not Kashmir then there would have been some other point of conflict for both countries.

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35 minutes ago, Global.Baba said:

Our relationship with Pakistan would have been maybe at a similar level to say what we have with Bangladesh today.

Doubt it, Bangladeshis are way too timid and don't have any army or intelligence agency to speak of. Also not as radicalized as Pakistani society, there are still many Bangladeshis who are secular in spirit and give precedence to culture over religion. I am not kidding about the last part, there is an atheist undercurrent and many Bangladeshis hate the Islamists more than our so called liberal Indian Muslims....I can't imagine an equivalent of Shahbagh protests (2013) by Indian Muslims, radical Islamists who were influential and also powerful politicians (cabinet rank ministers) got hanged like dogs in the aftermath. Even though it has a state religion, BD constitution talks about secularism, their judiciary has upheld that part at least till now.  More than 20000 Islamists are in jail now after the targeted killing campaign of atheist (and critics of Islam) bloggers, no comparsion with Pakistan.

 

Also Mushfiqur gets a lot of hate on ICF, many here feel he hates India, happy that he got rejected by IPL. Maybe true but I desist from hating someone with a spine. I remember some 5-6 years back he wished Bangladeshi Hindus for Durga Puja with many pics of the Goddess. Some Islamists (JEI) abused him, threatened him, asked him to take down his post. He didn't, instead he used some harsh language (in colloquial Bengali) and said that Bangladeshi Hindus will always be more dear to him that JEI scum or something like that. Bangladeshi Hindus can achieve higher positions compared to kafirs in Pakistan, in Bangladeshi movie industry Hindu actors have been paired up with Muslim actresses (romance) eg Chanchal Chowdhury See the difference? 

Quote

How many countries share border or like in India’s case mostly surrounded by  Islamic nations and have a cordial relationship with them?

None, only comparable country is Israel in terms of history/hostility. Very difficult to survive with such geography. Maybe in Africa...not sure, have to check the map, Kenya has enough problems because of Islamic aggresson, shares border with Somalia...not surrounded by enemies as such. 

Edited by Gollum

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@Global.Baba I have come across inter-religious marriages sans conversion in BD where husband is Hindu, wife Muslim. One step further I have travelled with a couple from Chittagong who came to India for medical treatment, wife who hails from a Muslim family adopted a Hindu name and was practising her husband's religion. BD has a Special Marriage Act like India, Pak will implode if anything close to that is brought into effect. 

Edited by Gollum

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I am not someone who goes on praising BD but when the competition is Pak, need to support them :((

 

Bangladesh's intangible cultural heritage UNESCO:

Baul songs ....many Muslims who take inspiration from Hinduism (bhakti movement) and Buddhism

Quote

Bauls belong to an unorthodox devotional tradition, influenced by Hinduism, Buddhism, Bengali, Vasinavism and Sufi Islam, yet distinctly different from them. Bauls neither identify with any organized religion nor with the caste system, special deities, temples or sacred places. Their emphasis lies on the importance of a person’s physical body as the place where God resides. Bauls are admired for this freedom from convention as well as their music and poetry. Baul poetry, music, song and dance are devoted to finding humankind’s relationship to God, and to achieving spiritual liberation. Their devotional songs can be traced back to the fifteenth century when they first appeared in Bengali literature.

Mangal Shobhajatra on Pahela Baishakh

Quote

mass procession that takes place at dawn on the first day of the Bengali New Year in Bangladesh.[1] The procession is organised by the teachers and students of the Faculty of Fine Arts of Dhaka University.[2] The festival is considered an expression of the secular identity of the Bangladeshi people and as a way to promote unity.

Image result for Mangal Shobhajatra on Pahela BaishakhImage result for Mangal Shobhajatra on Pahela BaishakhImage result for Mangal Shobhajatra on Pahela Baishakh

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15 hours ago, Global.Baba said:

Our relationship with Pakistan would have been maybe at a similar level to say what we have with Bangladesh today.

 

A few Bollywood types also known as pieces of garbage would have their wet dreams come true though. You will see a lot of musicians, actors from across the border get opportunities. I mean a lotttt of them.

 

We helped liberate Bangladesh but still it’s not like we have a lovey- dovey relationship with them.

 

How many countries share border or like in India’s case mostly surrounded by  Islamic nations and have a cordial relationship with them?

 

 

Why do Bollywood directors give those idiots roles but not to actresses from our other neighbours like Bangladesh, Sri Lanka & Nepal. All 3 countries have lots of beautiful women that can easily work as leading actresses in various Bollywood films. What is this love affair with Pakistan that Bollywood has? 
 

I only mentioned actresses because I am a boy, I don’t judge male actors :lol:

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1 hour ago, SecondSlip said:

Why do Bollywood directors give those idiots roles but not to actresses from our other neighbours like Bangladesh, Sri Lanka & Nepal. All 3 countries have lots of beautiful women that can easily work as leading actresses in various Bollywood films. What is this love affair with Pakistan that Bollywood has? 
 

I only mentioned actresses because I am a boy, I don’t judge male actors :lol:

Manisha Koirala and Jacqueline Fernandes say hello to you. None of Pakistani actress is even closer to their popularity.

 

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16 hours ago, Gollum said:

LOL No

 

No going back after what happened in 1946-48, even if you forget Kashmir the partition riots saga has no equal in modern world history. Besides after what we did to them in 1971 (had to happen sooner or later) no way would they have tried for good relations...breaking the country into two, one of the most crushing ass kickings in modern military history, splitting their population/area 50:50->destroyed their psyche and made Pak state/army lose its mental balance even more. And their identity is based on hate for India/kafirs, without having India as enemy how could they justify their existence and the Pakistan Movement? 

Without Kashmir conflict India had not interfer in BD?  Whether BD existed or not is different story but surely India would not be in war without any conflict with Pakistan.

Edited by Singh bling

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Kashmir conflict exists because of Pakistan's decision to attack Kashmir (sent its soldiers disguised as Kabalis), forcing Kashmir to take the decision to join India .... If Pak had not attacked Kashmir, it probably had the option to become an independent country too :dontknow:

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Only possible if both nations follow the true Secular Value. 

 

But just opposite of the Secularism is happening in both countries, and Pakistani society should be blamed for initiating it. 

 

Actually, even the Indian Muslims were unable to show the true secular approach. They believe more in religious values than in the secular values. They don't allow free inter-religion marriages. 

 

In my opinion, different factions in a society get "integrated" only when "marriages" are taking place among those factions. 

 

If marriages don't take place, then these factions could live at same place for hundreds or thousands of years, but they will not "integrate" with each other. 

 

Therefore, I have forgotten to dream about good Pak/Indian relationship, I am not even hopeful for Indian Muslims and Indian Hindus to live with each other with peace and love. 

 

Contrary to India, inter-religion marriages are little more common in some African countries (Muslims marrying with other communities). The situation in those African countries is little better than India. 

Edited by Alam_dar

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15 hours ago, Gollum said:

Doubt it, Bangladeshis are way too timid and don't have any army or intelligence agency to speak of. Also not as radicalized as Pakistani society, there are still many Bangladeshis who are secular in spirit and give precedence to culture over religion. I am not kidding about the last part, there is an atheist undercurrent and many Bangladeshis hate the Islamists more than our so called liberal Indian Muslims....I can't imagine an equivalent of Shahbagh protests (2013) by Indian Muslims, radical Islamists who were influential and also powerful politicians (cabinet rank ministers) got hanged like dogs in the aftermath. Even though it has a state religion, BD constitution talks about secularism, their judiciary has upheld that part at least till now.  More than 20000 Islamists are in jail now after the targeted killing campaign of atheist (and critics of Islam) bloggers, no comparsion with Pakistan.

 

Also Mushfiqur gets a lot of hate on ICF, many here feel he hates India, happy that he got rejected by IPL. Maybe true but I desist from hating someone with a spine. I remember some 5-6 years back he wished Bangladeshi Hindus for Durga Puja with many pics of the Goddess. Some Islamists (JEI) abused him, threatened him, asked him to take down his post. He didn't, instead he used some harsh language (in colloquial Bengali) and said that Bangladeshi Hindus will always be more dear to him that JEI scum or something like that. Bangladeshi Hindus can achieve higher positions compared to kafirs in Pakistan, in Bangladeshi movie industry Hindu actors have been paired up with Muslim actresses (romance) eg Chanchal Chowdhury See the difference? 

None, only comparable country is Israel in terms of history/hostility. Very difficult to survive with such geography. Maybe in Africa...not sure, have to check the map, Kenya has enough problems because of Islamic aggresson, shares border with Somalia...not surrounded by enemies as such. 

Guess that boils down to being Bengalis under the Muslim identity, a culture that doesn't celebrate Wars, Conquets or aspires domination . Bengali Culture is very feminine unlike the Punjabi,  Pashtun,  Haryanvi or Maratha cultures which are too toxic and hyper masculine. Bangaldeshis are content in celebrating Poila Boisakh, listening to Rabindra Sangeet and do not worship Invaders or fantasize about the glorious Islamic past of India  unlike Pakistani or even Indian Muslims. 

 

If we consider Hindu Bengalis and Pakistani ( Punjabi/Pashtun ) Muslims as two ends of the extreme then the Bangaldeshis would be in the middle.  Their Muslimness prohibits  them from being full overblown liberals like Bengali Hindus and their Bengaliness prohibits them from becoming religious zealots like the Pakistanis. 

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3 minutes ago, zen said:

Kashmir conflict exists because of Pakistan's decision to attack Kashmir (sent its soldiers disguised as Kabalis), forcing Kashmir to take the decision to join India .... If Pak had not attacked Kashmir, it probably had the option to become an independent country too :dontknow:

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you go a layer above it exists because of the rabid ideology that doesn’t believe in co existing.

 

Even the so called liberal Muslims would pick India becoming a Islamic nation in a heartbeat. Atleast most of them.

 

 

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22 minutes ago, Singh bling said:

Without Kashmir conflict India had not interfer in BD?  Whether BD existed or not is different story but surely India would not be in war without any conflict with Pakistan.

BD liberation had to happen at some point, not like there wasn't resentment in East Pakistan, and what about the refugee crisis? Kashmir had very little to do with what happened in 1971. Starting from '47->Racism, geography, indifference, economic exploitation, political sidelining, Urdu vs Bengali, Bengali Muslims not Muslim enough, genocide......chronology samajh lijiye. 

Edited by Gollum

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25 minutes ago, Global.Baba said:

If you go a layer above it exists because of the rabid ideology that doesn’t believe in co existing.

 

Even the so called liberal Muslims would pick India becoming a Islamic nation in a heartbeat. Atleast most of them.

 

 

I agree that there are multiple layers. Which is why the thread question, which assumes that the conflict is only because of Kashmir,  is not straight forward to answer as Kashmir itself would have had options. Other factors could determine the direction as well.
 

For e.g. if the the king is overthrown and killing of Hindus becomes a policy in Kashmir, Ind would have to get involved anyways. On the other hand, if Kashmir remained under the Maharaja, it would enjoy great relationships with India

 

PS not to forget the issues in BD/East Pakistan

Edited by zen

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9 minutes ago, javier26 said:

Guess that boils down to being Bengalis under the Muslim identity, a culture that doesn't celebrate Wars, Conquets or aspires domination . Bengali Culture is very feminine unlike the Punjabi,  Pashtun,  Haryanvi or Maratha cultures which are too toxic and hyper masculine. Bangaldeshis are content in celebrating Poila Boisakh, listening to Rabindra Sangeet and do not worship Invaders or fantasize about the glorious Islamic past of India  unlike Pakistani or even Indian Muslims. 

 

If we consider Hindu Bengalis and Pakistani ( Punjabi/Pashtun ) Muslims as two ends of the extreme then the Bangaldeshis would be in the middle.  Their Muslimness prohibits  them from being full overblown liberals like Bengali Hindus and their Bengaliness prohibits them from becoming religious zealots like the Pakistanis. 

Hahah what an absolute piece of drivel. 

Here's a list of prominent revolutionaries from Bengal: 

Bagha Jatin, Surya Sen, Khudiram Bose, Ghosh Brothers, Jatin Das, Prafulla Chaki, Pulin Das, Sachin Sanyal etc. 

 

Both Subhash Bose and Ras behari Bose , two stalwarts behind Indian National Army were from Bengal. 

So much for effeminate Bengalis, eh? 

Remind me again what has Haryana contributed to deserve this Hyper Masculine tag? 

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1 minute ago, Gollum said:

BD liberation had to happen at some point, not like there wasn't resentment in East Pakistan, and what about the refugee crisis? Kashmir had very little to do with what happened in 1971. Racism, indifference, exploitation, Urdu vs Bengali, Bengali Muslims not Muslim enough, genocide......

If India and Pakistan had no war in 1965 and friendly relations then there was no chance of India interfering in Bangladesh. India hardly interfere in other countries dispute. Yes refugee crissis was an issue but I doubt India would had gone to war to solve that.

 

Also because of enemity over Kashmir India and Pakistan gone to side of Soviet and USA without that it would had been different story. And without Soviet not supporting that war India would not had gone to war

 

 

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1 minute ago, First class said:

 India-Pak , would have been like USA-Canada. 

Usa- Canada are 2 secular democratic countries. 
 

While India is,Pak is not.

 

Ind-Pak Split shouldn’t have happened to begin with but it has happened and you cannot Undo that however the foundation of Pakistan is on the premise that co existing with other religions and cultures is impossible so yeah it’s one of those romantic ideas that are not practical.

 

Let Pak declare itself a secular state then maybe 

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At one point in my life, I was an idealist who dreamt about the subcon becoming a EU like zone (no troops on borders, free movement of ppl and trade, common currency, etc) :((

 

As a cricket fan, I even speculated on how strong a united subcon team be 

 

I am glad to have overcome this period :two_thumbs_up:

Edited by zen

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16 hours ago, Global.Baba said:

Usa- Canada are 2 secular democratic countries. 
 

While India is,Pak is not.

 

Ind-Pak Split shouldn’t have happened to begin with but it has happened and you cannot Undo that however the foundation of Pakistan is on the premise that co existing with other religions and cultures is impossible so yeah it’s one of those romantic ideas that are not practical.

 

Let Pak declare itself a secular state then maybe 

India was, not anymore.

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1 hour ago, First class said:

India was, not anymore.

You mean like how the dictatorship at  BJP has Overruled the public verdict or constitutional framework  in state elections in Maharashtra and Delhi recently?

Edited by Global.Baba

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2 hours ago, Global.Baba said:

You mean like how the dictatorship at  BJP has Overruled the public verdict or constitutional framework  in state elections in Maharashtra and Delhi recently?

Prime examples of India being a secular country was displayed during Modi's tenure as Gujrat's CM and democracy at its best is event in Kasmir, otherwise everything is Kosher. You can talk many other things about India and can be proud of but not these. 

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30 minutes ago, The Realist said:

Image result for pak china bed cartoon

 

Image result for pak china bed cartoon

 

So with this you automatically accept that india is persecuting in Kashmir.

 

By the way, there is alot of coverage for India's involvement in Balochistan unrest and peace. 

 

No one is innocent in this bloody thing. :-)

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15 hours ago, The Realist said:

Image result for pak china bed cartoon

 

Image result for pak china bed cartoon

 

What Pakistan is to do with Muslims in China, its an humanitarian  issue . no doubt, but not a Pakistani issue. Kashimr is not just a humanitarian issue, Pakistan has a claim on it. 

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24 minutes ago, First class said:

Pakistan has a claim on it. 

If by attacking Kashmir, Pak feels it has a claim on it, then any country can lay claim on any by simply attacking it. 

 

The reason Kashmir chose to be a part of Ind is because Pak attacked it. 

Edited by zen

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If Kashmir conflict never existed meaning.

 

After Kashmir ceding Pak never invaded or India repulsed the invasion fully in both frontiers and soundly defeated both pak and china to such an extent that they lost interest in kashmir and did not do any proxy wars there. 

 

Then right now India will have a pipeline from Russia and would have had boots in ground in Afganistan. 

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If by Kashmir conflict never existing it is meant.

 

Pak never invaded kashmir then it gets interesting.

 

Pak never invaded kashmir, then it never had any issues with china ( for it to cede the Karakorum valley or for it to come to India to try and allign in a unified strategy against China initially or India to reject it ). Now in this scenario China and India had problems and fought a war, Pak continued to be US pet and after fall of Soviet union, Afganistan is annexed to pakistan the loyal US/saudi ally ( so complete strategic alignment between pak and US). And after Ind/China war one of two outcomes happened. 

China won in western front ( Karakoram/Askai Chin and lost in eastern front Arunachal/Tibet. Or lost on both or won both ( unlikely due to geography).

 

China won west .

 

Pak is prosperous , predominantly sunni, hates India but feels much superior, did not create terror so has high HDI and US loves it. 

India is similar as today but lost karakoram heights and Askai chin to china but managed to keep control of Gilgit and has a tense corridor and gas pipeline to central asia. India is more pro Russia/China than US which is Anti India.

China ( No impact just regional , does not have Pak as lap dog no CPEC , may be made kazakistan/Iran as its alley and is alied with Iran/Russia against US/Saudi.  

 

China lost both. 

Not much of a difference from above scenario.

But India is more prosperous and is a Russian alley, China due to successive defeats to other countries is in a more retreated state as a nation state. India is the behemoth hegemon in the region ( replaced current reality China)

Pak no change. 

 

China won both, 

Pak no change ( No durand line), full strategic embrace with US. 

India submissive yet very vast middle class nation.

China ( controls full of Kashmir/Tibet and is a super power)

 

 

So basically if Pak had not wanted Kashmir and instead kept to itself , it would have done far better for itself and would have strategic depth vis-a-vis India because Afghanistan would have been annexed to it as a regional stabilizing force. 

 

India would have anyway had to deal with independent chinese aggression to hold all high points in Himalayas and result could have gone either way or been a stale mate as it is now.  

 

 Net net, because of Pakistanis stupid attraction to Kashmir , India and Pak have vacated strategic space to China/Taliban and Iran. And US has lost strategic heft in south Asia, Russia has lost strategic heft in south Asia. Man this is like perfect story for Chinese rise no wonder they love pakistan now. 

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BUMP! 

@Gollum @sandeep @zen

 

If United Kashmir (Indian Kashmir, Pakistani Kashmir & Gilgit-Baltistan) was given independent status from the British similar to Nepal before 1947, then neither us or Pakistan would have had any claim on it. 
 

With Kashmir an independent Himalayan nation like Nepal & Bhutan, there would be no wars between us and Pakistan. 
 

No wars means much better relations. We wouldn’t even get involved during Pakistan’s civil war in 1971. We would have just sat back, relaxed and enjoyed the Sh!tshow as @Singh bling said. 
 

Why do you guys think we would still have hostile relations even without Kashmir!?  

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11 minutes ago, sandeep said:

 

 

My answer is still the same.

This is why I asked this question Sandeep Bhaiya. 
 

The beloved “PakMil Mafia” would have 0 power if Kashmir conflict didn’t exist! 

14 minutes ago, SecondSlip said:

BUMP! 

@Gollum @sandeep @zen

Why do you guys think we would still have hostile relations even without Kashmir!?  

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50 minutes ago, SecondSlip said:

BUMP! 

@Gollum @sandeep @zen

 

If United Kashmir (Indian Kashmir, Pakistani Kashmir & Gilgit-Baltistan) was given independent status from the British similar to Nepal before 1947, then neither us or Pakistan would have had any claim on it. 
 

With Kashmir an independent Himalayan nation like Nepal & Bhutan, there would be no wars between us and Pakistan. 
 

No wars means much better relations. We wouldn’t even get involved during Pakistan’s civil war in 1971. We would have just sat back, relaxed and enjoyed the Sh!tshow as @Singh bling said. 
 

Why do you guys think we would still have hostile relations even without Kashmir!?  

In simple terms - People know why and how Pak was formed. Its military leadership thrives on presenting India as a threat. To have India as a threat, a conflict (or an idea of it) is needed 

 

Also I am not sure about the assumption that if not for Kashmir, India would not have taken part in the formation of BD. East Pakistan suffered severe human rights violations and India had to deal with humanitarian crisis created because of it  


 



The conflicts exist  because of the mindset of certain sections following an Islamic line of thinking and undermining people of non-Islamic religions and within Islamic religions, people who follow a different version and/or have a different background 


If Kashmir was independent, the Hindu king could have been assassinated with Pak’s help and the Pandits (representing people of non Islamic background) forced out of their homes to flee to other countries, Ind would still have to get involved in Kashmir like it did in BD. In a India-Kashmir war,  Pak would be involved for its backIng of the Islamic elements in Kashmir .... Kashmir was in fact attacked by Pakistan through Kabalis as it did not want it to remain independent or join India 
 

There are too many factors involved. Elimination of a current battleground does not eliminate the possibility of the conflict emerging through other battlegrounds. If the region is such peace loving like you believe, why even fight on Kashmir?  LoC can be seen as international border if the countries want to.  Kashmir conflict exists because Pakistan attacked Kashmir (through Kabalis) 


 

 

Edited by zen

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42 minutes ago, SecondSlip said:

BUMP! 

@Gollum @sandeep @zen

 

If United Kashmir (Indian Kashmir, Pakistani Kashmir & Gilgit-Baltistan) was given independent status from the British similar to Nepal before 1947, then neither us or Pakistan would have had any claim on it. 
 

With Kashmir an independent Himalayan nation like Nepal & Bhutan, there would be no wars between us and Pakistan. 
 

No wars means much better relations. We wouldn’t even get involved during Pakistan’s civil war in 1971. We would have just sat back, relaxed and enjoyed the Sh!tshow as @Singh bling said. 
 

Why do you guys think we would still have hostile relations even without Kashmir!?  

1400 yo civilizational war, dharmic religions are the final frontier. How many countries with 40% Muslim pop have known peace? Had Bengal been one, I know what would have happened to my parents and me, won't spell it out here obviously to maintain decency.

 

Problem with many here is they haven't lived in areas with significant Muslim population. Only when you live in such areas will your eyes open, otherwise you are insulated from real world problems. Those who want to pretend all is right, why don't you rent a flat in a locaility with significant M pop and then tell me your experience. Send your son to the local school/playground, your daughter to tuition at 8 pm in those areas. Do you *ers realize the precautions to be taken in such situations, the constant sense of fear? My father was brought up in a house in Bhopal in front of Taj-ul-Masjid, in the 50s it was 50:50, by the 70s theirs was the only Hindu/Sikh/Jain family left, they saved lives of Muslim neighbors in 1984 gas tragedy, in 1986 in the form of return gift driven out of that ancestral house by local extremists for measly compensation. Suresh Pachouri who is my father's close friend (MACT mate) and a powerful Congress leader had to convince him to not be stubborn, that advice probably saved their lives. There are pockets in Bengal where women (sometimes even men) in our family can't step out post sunset. 

 

Dharmics have been getting slaughtered like goats for centuries, we have been fighting for our survival all this time, still your eyes won't open or what? As long as a ratio of 3: 1 can be maintained, Hindus can somehow survive, otherwise phat ke haath mein aa jayega. Wanna dispute my assertion, move out from your dharmic majority areas for a few months. 

 

Thank Jinnah for the partition, curse those who have little loyalty towards India (not a religious thing, many Hindus included and many Muslims excluded) after eating food here their entire lives, curse Gandhi every night before you sleep who put his selfish interests above everything else. 

Edited by Gollum

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