Why Sachin is a legend

[patriot]

Losing 3-0 in Australia in 1999 and what' date=' 4-0 in 1992. Sounds pretty diabolical to me. Sure we had some very good individuals but as a team we couldn't stick it to 'em. Tendulkar did, and often. Again statguru won't tell you everything. You're adamant that his legacy be diluted because he hasn't sustained his brilliant best for twenty years. Ten years not enough for you?[/quote'] Goose, Australia was the top team starting late 90's, that team under Steve Waugh started the world record winning streak. They whitewashed teams everywhere they went. They even beat lanka 3-0 in Lanka ! How could we not expect to get whitewashed in their own backyard ? Often I have felt that he has not shown the mental fortitude to go much beyond a 100 in a crisis situation. What I am saying is that, he has never played a any epic knock against major odds to either win or draw India a match or even in a losing match guts it out till the very end. I am not seeing statsguru, I don't need to. But I know, Sunny did see India through against the most vicious and wicked attacks, right through the very end, many times and that toofacing them first up. I have no doubt that had Sunny played iin the decade of 2000 where tracks have become more docile and the bowlers more friendly and teams like Zimbabwe and Bangladesh in the test arena, he would have averaged 65+ and held all the test batting records. I totally agree with what Tony Greig ( who was at one time his greatest fan ) and Shastri have had to say about him. His legacy will be how his 3-4 golden years ( 95/96-98) , where he had a really good run on subcontinental wickets and dominated Australia at home . There can be no doubt that he was a child prodigy and played those 2 good knocks in England and Australia in losing causes. But that is just for the romantics. Like I said earlier, once he retires and all his test records are overcome people will remember Tendulkar only for those 3 years in the mid to late 90's, because that's when he performed his best and we won. Apart from that for most part of the decade of 2000's he has played for a very very good INdian team with many greats and just built on his array of statistics out of longetivity and done nothing exceptional that other successful batters in the 2000's haven't done.

[goose]

To save you the suspsense i shall i revert in approx 12 hours.

[patriot]

Patriot' date=' Tendulkar's legacy goes far beyond numbers, no matter what the fan says. He is THE person all Indians identified with during the 90s - regardless of caste, religion, region, etc. He was the face of India in front of all the cricketing nations. There's a reason why Steve Waugh said, India celebrates Tendulkar scoring - instead of India winning. And that has changed by SO much today. We [i']demand that India win all of its encounters. Do you think people in the 1990s were stupid as opposed to today? Why then would they take joy in Sachin scoring centuries and dominating the opposition, in spite of India losing a lot of those games? I alluded to this in the other thread comparing Sehwag's S/R to that of Sachin's, Sachin is more than just a insipid run scorer, as you keep claiming. From a cricketing standpoint, he is a mix of Gavaskar and Richards, and from a personal standpoint, he is absolutely the best sportsman the world has seen - the way he has handled fame, fortune, obsessive supporters, scathing critics, etc. Coming to the point about other good players alongside Sachin - if you've followed the career of Azhar, he had a very good career and was a very good batsman bordering great. But very inconsistent, and though he has excellent knocks in his resume overseas, one could definitely say that his record at home is far better than the ones abroad. Ganguly, Dravid, et. al came into the fore only at the turn of the century. Apart from the 2 centuries in '96, Ganguly was a steady player in tests, and a good opening partner in the ODIs - but he doesn't nearly have the same amount of buy on the burning decks knocks that Sachin does (ex: WC '96 Semi Final). Dravid did more - he gave it his all every single time, but even he took time to get used to the one-dayers. In the tests, he was very good until the turn of the century, and he became a great player in his own right in both the formats. That Tendulkar considers Kumble to be the best cricketer of his generation to represent India must tell you something.. What Sachin was to batting, Kumble was to Indian bowling. Of course, Kumble had a mediocre/below-average record away from India, whereas Sachin batted with flair everywhere against everyone. Srinath was a very good paceman from India, but it is his misfortune that he had no one other than Venkatesh Prasad to support him at the other end. In spite of this, he came up with some terrific spells like the one vs. SA in 1996 at Ahmedabad. But apart from shining here and there, none of these players (barring Kumble.. again), they didn't do too much to change the results that we got.

Sorry, boss. I do agree that he had captured the imagination of the people. But alot of it is pure romanticism because of a few superb ODI performances, even with the ball ( That hero CUP against RSA, where he balled the last over ). That ODI in Kochi against Aus in 1998 where he took a 5fer out of nowhere. Then that Sharjah Cup against Aus in 1998 . For his test legacy, read my last reply to goose.

[vvvslaxman]

He became a legend as early as in the 90s. Why is it even a discussion now. Best batsman in our era by a country mile.

[graphic23]

Goose, Australia was the top team starting late 90's, that team under Steve Waugh started the world record winning streak. They whitewashed teams everywhere they went. They even beat lanka 3-0 in Lanka ! How could we not expect to get whitewashed in their own backyard ? Often I have felt that he has not shown the mental fortitude to go much beyond a 100 in a crisis situation.

That is actually not true. Australia had won against almost every major team (Pakistan the exception, :hmmm:) after they finally won a series vs. West Indies in West Indies under Mark Taylor in 1995. You may check Mark Taylor's recollection of the same in a recent (about 1-2 year span) in Cricinfo.

[zubinpepsi]

:wall:

[Three'sACrowd]

No player other than Boss has been involved in the most matches, runs and 100's in tests+odis together at the same time even in cases like... http://stats.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=11;filter=advanced;orderby=runs;result=2;template=results;type=batting 237 matches. Hmm...here is a record that is as unbreakable as Bradman's average. I am certain that in my lifetime...this bold and daring new India( getting better each passing day), even with players with the longest career span won't end up with a such dubious distinction.

The 237 matches lost by SRT does not give the entire picture, if you're using them to make a point. Analyze the data a little more: Of the 442 ODIs Tendulkar has played, he was in losing teams 237 times, or 53%. Lara has been in losing teams in 207 of the 299 ODIs he played, which is 69%. In fact, Lara's record may turn out to be "as unbreakable as Bradman's average" as you put it.

[IKnowU]

MY onlly regret is Sachin getting out on 96 at CB series in Australia. I was there at the ground watching his whole innings and thinking I will see Sachin getting a century in front of my very own eyes. But sadly he got out on 96. I wept a tear. :((

[Sooda]

Patriot, As Graphy and goose point out the team SRT played in for much of his career WAS very much below par. The fact that you disagree for me backs up what goose said about you only following cricket since 2000. (you responded to none of the specific points Gra23 made about individual players for instance) The period you talk about in the mid to late 90's when Tendulkar was 'at his best' -we won a few ODI tournos at home, but jack **** in tests overseas. he was MoTS in the 99 tour to Aus (wrongly so, it should have been Ponting) he had a pretty good series as Captain (btw- I think everyone agress he's a crappy captain, yes he had some rubbish players playing for him that tour to Aus being case in point; but nobody here anyway ignores his fallacies on that front) India were a poor team. trust me man. Ganguly and Dr only really emerged as world class performers in the early 00's. Azhar was a fine bat, but as Gra pts out, not consistent enough. That tour we had the likes of Kanitkar, Vijay Bharadwaj, Debang Gandhi (who wouldnt get into an Aussie club side) playing for us. MSK Prasad! In that period (a little earlier, more like mid 90s) we had Mongia opening the batting in tests, as did Vikram Rathore. The following 'pace bowlers' played TEST cricket in the mid to late 90's: David Johnson, Dodda Ganesh, Paras Mhambrey (LOL!! I remember following the tour to Eng in 96. club class was how one newspaper described him), Iqbal Siddiqui, Tinu Yohanan, T Kumaran (:wall:). Venky Prasad was good in the right conditions but Srinath was our only genuine strike bowler away from home, in relative terms we are BLESSED with out current pace crop. They dont say bowlers win matches for nothing. The likes of Rajesh Chauhan and Venkatpathy Raju (who could be a decent ODI player to be fair) were Kumbles support at home. Kumble is a legend, but did very little overseas in those days. As poor as people like say VRV Singh were/can be they are far more professional, and just BETTER than the guys who played for us back then. Coming back however to your 'legacy' point, What I am saying is that, he has never played a any epic knock against major odds to either win or draw India a match or even in a losing match guts it out till the very end. No maybe he didnt to be fair, I can only think of Chennai vs Pak and the knock vs England recently- he certainly did set up a fair no of potential wins with great knocks versus some of the greatest bowlers ever though. And we would have won more matches then if we had other players to help drive the advantage home This where even Lara had Ambrose and Walsh for much of his career (I do Agree with you when you point to Lara and his magical innings and for that reason I for one rate Lara a bit higher.) Anyway as goose says it IS in fact why we is held dear by so many growing up in the 90's. There is no comparision with regards to him in terms of sheer quality of batmans ship versus others- i.e he has hammered some pretty good bowlers, alot of all time greats even. much better than any batsman today has to contend with.

[patriot]

Sooda, Thank you, Sire. I agree 100%, with all that you have just written.

[Rajiv]

I promise you all of SRT's personal milestones in tests, would be overcome within 15 years. ( Hopefully by an Indian ) ?

On the contrary, it's a big full stop from here on With the amount of T20's and fewer tests, the average batsmen can go up as 8k in the future It took these greats as long as 20 year to accomplish these huge runs 10 Years from now, the interests in tests would deplete 10 yeras back, stadiums used to be packed for tests and now, its dead But thats the way it goes, why would a kid play a board game when he has a Wii to play with ( knaw what I mean )

[nospam]

Sachin Tendulkar ki balle balle... baki sab thalle thalle VmNix-T8xU4

[Sooda]

Sooda, Thank you, Sire. I agree 100%, with all that you have just written.

Excellent! Good to see not a single moment of my writing that lengthy post- which you read all of -was a wasted one And good to see weve got another addition to the legion of Tendulkar adorers. I rejoice... :aha:

[patriot]

On the contrary, it's a big full stop from here on With the amount of T20's and fewer tests, the average batsmen can go up as 8k in the future It took these greats as long as 20 year to accomplish these huge runs 10 Years from now, the interests in tests would deplete 10 yeras back, stadiums used to be packed for tests and now, its dead But thats the way it goes, why would a kid play a board game when he has a Wii to play with ( knaw what I mean )

Not happening. UNfortunately, India may get sucked into it, because of IPL, but cricket boards of Australia , England and South Africa are still traditional and care about cricket unlike BCCI chewtiya babus. There was a time when " experts " said the same thing about test cricket getting effected because of 40 - 45 ODIS being played each year. Test cricket survived that and teams are playing on an average 10-12 tests and batsmen are plundering runs by the bucketful. I think next year, we are scheduled to play like 15 tests.

[Guest BossBhai]

-- Removed on request of the user --

[Gunner_Mania]

Patriot - Here is a thought for you. You can keep crowing as much as you like, the world and history in years to come will record that SRT was a legend and one of the greatest this game has ever produced and a model for generations to follow and that is not goign to change in spite of all the statistics you keep producing as per your convinience.

[zubinpepsi]

And then theres this little other thing ... patriot conviniently declares which inngs is more important depending on the player he choses to compare SRT against ... if its Sehwag then Matches are supposedly set up in the first inngs. If its Ponting then its the 2nd inngs. That pretty much sums up the intent behind all this.

haha this is so true..:cantstop:

[patriot]

Excellent! Good to see not a single moment of my writing that lengthy post- which you read all of -was a wasted one And good to see weve got another addition to the legion of Tendulkar adorers. I rejoice... :aha:

Haha, Sooda. I greatly admire SRT's ambition and drive. That greed is good to have. That is something everyone can take a lesson from. But I am not a fanboy of SRT like most at ICF here are. I prefer being a fanboy of someone who has that " X factor" , that destructive ability to change a test match in a session, someone that is an absolute utter nightmare for opposition teams. That is Sehwag. No one has played test cricket this way, apart from Gilchrist, (who got very inconsistent though in the last 3 years or so ) First up for India - Sehwag is that pain in the @$$ for the other team when he starts off the first over of a test match with 2 demoralizing 4's.:--D. And then after mauling the bowlers, he comes up with gems like. " It's a waste, leaving balls outside off stump" " I feel sorry for the bowlers" " I hit only bad balls" " Bangladesh is an ordinary side" " Brett Lee ko kal phad doonga " ( To Ganguly in the net before WC final ) " Bowling kar raha hai ya bheek mang raha hai " ( To Actor in Multan ) :laugh:

[Rajiv]

Vow, Lara and Captaincy was a good one too http://static.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/1998-99/WI_IN_RSA/SCORECARDS/ Lara's Nightmare Quote: Lara, who has often shown glimpses of his brilliance in this series without ever making a big score, has now gone 13 Tests without a hundred.

[mhr123]

Sachin Tendulkar ki balle balle... baki sab thalle thalle VmNix-T8xU4

:isalute: