zen Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 (edited) How do you rate Lillee among ATG pace bowlers? Stats (though not everything) are below too for reference. Recently, I have been reconnecting with the "classic" cricketers by watching videos - Lillee is fun. He runs in like a train. Is quick. Competes with the best (Sobers and Richards for e.g.) .... Known as a complete bowler .... Brings intensity to the game .... And also said to be one of the most charamaristic cricketers .... Usually compared with Marshall and Hadlee .... Was amazing bowler with the X-factor in his prime inspiring a lot of bowlers .... And his contributions to the MRF pace foundation. Tests View overall figures [change view] Opposition team Australia or England or India or New Zealand or Pakistan or South Africa or Sri Lanka or West Indies Start of match date greater than or equal to 1 Jan 1970 Type of bowler (by style) pace bowler Qualifications wickets taken greater than or equal to 100 and bowling average less than or equal to 25 Ordered by bowling average (ascending) Page 1 of 1 Showing 1 - 21 of 21 First Previous Next Last Return to query menu Cleared query menu Overall figures Player Span Mat Inns Balls Runs Wkts BBI BBM Ave Econ SR 5 10 MD Marshall (WI) 1978-1991 81 151 17584 7876 376 7/22 11/89 20.94 2.68 46.7 22 4 J Garner (WI) 1977-1987 58 111 13169 5433 259 6/56 9/108 20.97 2.47 50.8 7 0 CEL Ambrose (WI) 1988-2000 96 175 21641 8401 397 8/45 11/84 21.16 2.32 54.5 22 3 PJ Cummins (AUS) 2011-2020 28 53 6383 2947 137 6/23 10/62 21.51 2.77 46.5 5 1 GD McGrath (AUS) 1993-2007 120 235 28485 11930 549 8/24 10/27 21.73 2.51 51.8 29 3 VD Philander (SA) 2011-2020 60 113 10935 4828 219 6/21 10/102 22.04 2.64 49.9 13 2 Sir RJ Hadlee (NZ) 1973-1990 86 150 21918 9611 431 9/52 15/123 22.29 2.63 50.8 36 9 AA Donald (SA) 1992-2002 69 123 14906 7113 316 7/84 12/139 22.50 2.86 47.1 19 2 Imran Khan (PAK) 1971-1992 88 142 19458 8258 362 8/58 14/116 22.81 2.54 53.7 23 6 CEH Croft (WI) 1977-1982 27 52 6165 2913 125 8/29 9/95 23.30 2.83 49.3 3 0 RJ Harris (AUS) 2010-2015 27 52 5736 2658 113 7/117 9/106 23.52 2.78 50.7 5 0 DW Steyn (SA) 2004-2019 86 159 17426 9507 403 7/51 11/60 23.59 3.27 43.2 24 5 MA Holding (WI) 1975-1987 60 113 12680 5898 249 8/92 14/149 23.68 2.79 50.9 13 2 SM Pollock (SA) 1995-2008 100 186 22964 9238 389 7/87 10/147 23.74 2.41 59.0 15 1 Wasim Akram (PAK) 1985-2001 92 160 20096 8728 367 7/119 11/110 23.78 2.60 54.7 21 4 DK Lillee (AUS) 1971-1984 70 132 18467 8493 355 7/83 11/123 23.92 2.75 52.0 23 7 K Rabada (SA) 2015-2020 40 72 7579 4319 179 7/112 13/144 24.12 3.41 42.3 7 3 IR Bishop (WI) 1989-1998 43 76 8407 3909 161 6/40 8/57 24.27 2.78 52.2 6 0 Mohammad Asif (PAK) 2005-2010 23 44 5171 2583 106 6/41 11/71 24.36 2.99 48.7 7 1 CA Walsh (WI) 1984-2001 130 238 29536 12554 510 7/37 13/55 24.61 2.55 57.9 22 3 BA Reid (AUS) 1985-1992 27 42 6244 2784 113 7/51 13/148 24.63 2.67 55.2 5 2 ODIs View overall figures [change view] Opposition team Australia or England or India or New Zealand or Pakistan or South Africa or Sri Lanka or West Indies Start of match date greater than or equal to 1 Jan 1970 Type of bowler (by style) pace bowler Qualifications wickets taken greater than or equal to 100 and bowling average less than or equal to 25 Ordered by bowling average (ascending) Page 1 of 1 Showing 1 - 15 of 15 First Previous Next Last Return to query menu Cleared query menu Overall figures Player Span Mat Inns Balls Runs Wkts BBI Ave Econ SR 4 5 J Garner (WI) 1977-1987 97 97 5288 2739 144 5/31 19.02 3.10 36.7 2 3 DK Lillee (AUS) 1972-1983 61 61 3467 2075 101 5/34 20.54 3.59 34.3 5 1 MA Holding (WI) 1976-1987 101 101 5401 3001 140 5/26 21.43 3.33 38.5 5 1 Sir RJ Hadlee (NZ) 1973-1990 114 111 6110 3397 158 5/25 21.50 3.33 38.6 1 5 SE Bond (NZ) 2002-2010 73 71 3875 2866 128 6/19 22.39 4.43 30.2 5 4 AA Donald (SA) 1991-2003 148 147 7749 5454 242 5/29 22.53 4.22 32.0 9 1 GD McGrath (AUS) 1993-2007 218 216 11443 7594 333 5/14 22.80 3.98 34.3 9 6 B Lee (AUS) 2000-2012 193 190 9918 7946 337 5/22 23.57 4.80 29.4 11 9 MA Starc (AUS) 2010-2020 82 82 4251 3664 155 6/28 23.63 5.17 27.4 8 7 C Pringle (NZ) 1990-1995 64 64 3314 2459 103 5/45 23.87 4.45 32.1 2 1 Waqar Younis (PAK) 1989-2003 233 231 11440 9051 377 7/36 24.00 4.74 30.3 13 13 NW Bracken (AUS) 2001-2009 102 102 5228 3862 159 5/47 24.28 4.43 32.8 5 2 Wasim Akram (PAK) 1984-2003 314 310 16234 10711 439 5/16 24.39 3.95 36.9 15 4 CEL Ambrose (WI) 1988-2000 169 168 9008 5305 216 5/17 24.56 3.53 41.7 6 4 CJ McDermott (AUS) 1985-1996 133 133 7233 4892 197 5/44 24.83 4.05 36.7 4 1 Edited March 24, 2020 by zen Link to comment
Gollum Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 Didn't prove himself in SC and WI. For all we know he might have been the Ashwin/Jadeja equivalent of fast bowling in those days. Great bowler nonetheless but not tier I great, that tier has Marshall, Ambrose, McGrath, Hadlee, Steyn etc. But he was a trendsetter, flame passed from him to Andy Roberts to others. Link to comment
zen Posted March 21, 2020 Author Share Posted March 21, 2020 1 hour ago, Gollum said: Didn't prove himself in SC and WI. In the supertests in WI, Lillee took a lot of wkts against WI .... Supertests do not count as official tests but the series was highly competitive - Link In SC, I won't be surprised if tracks were prepared to blunt likes of Lillee out esp. considering that Aus would not have a quality spinner. In Pak, no quick bowler made a big impact including Imran Khan, who does "special things" in Pak View overall figures [change view] Primary team Australia or Pakistan Opposition team Australia or Pakistan Host country Pakistan Start of match date between 1 Jan 1980 and 1 Jan 1981 Type of bowler (by style) pace bowler Ordered by wickets taken (descending) Page 1 of 1 Showing 1 - 11 of 11 First Previous Next Last Return to query menu Cleared query menu Overall figures Player Mat Inns Overs Mdns Runs Wkts BBI BBM Ave Econ SR 5 10 Imran Khan (PAK) 2 3 56.0 14 144 6 2/28 4/116 24.00 2.57 56.0 0 0 GS Chappell (AUS) 3 3 34.0 9 74 3 3/49 3/49 24.66 2.17 68.0 0 0 DK Lillee (AUS) 3 4 102.0 19 303 3 3/114 3/114 101.00 2.97 204.0 0 0 Sarfraz Nawaz (PAK) 3 5 111.0 30 255 2 2/119 2/119 127.50 2.29 333.0 0 0 G Dymock (AUS) 3 4 51.0 13 129 1 1/49 1/49 129.00 2.52 306.0 0 0 Ehteshamuddin (PAK) 1 1 18.0 2 59 1 1/59 1/59 59.00 3.27 108.0 0 0 Taslim Arif (PAK) 3 1 5.0 0 28 1 1/28 1/28 28.00 5.60 30.0 0 0 KJ Hughes (AUS) 3 1 8.0 1 19 0 - - - 2.37 - 0 0 Mudassar Nazar (PAK) 3 4 12.0 1 46 0 - - - 3.83 - 0 0 GN Yallop (AUS) 3 2 5.0 0 29 0 - - - 5.80 - 0 0 Haroon Rasheed (PAK) 2 - - - - - - - - - - - - Above there is hardly any recognizable Aus bowler apart from Lillee .... a couple of close LBWs not given by Pak umpires could make a big difference on such surfaces .... Knowing the exceptional quality of Lillee, I would give him a benefit of doubt in SC. Link to comment
zen Posted March 21, 2020 Author Share Posted March 21, 2020 (edited) After looking a what Lillee did to Pak below .... Not surprised to see pitches made to blunt Lillee (as seen in my last post) and highly defensive attitude from Pak in Pak: Edited March 21, 2020 by zen Link to comment
rtmohanlal Posted March 22, 2020 Share Posted March 22, 2020 what ever said & done he remains over rated...not enough sample size in sub continent... Link to comment
Suhaan Posted March 22, 2020 Share Posted March 22, 2020 (edited) Had great footwork Edited March 22, 2020 by Suhaan nevada and Jimmy Cliff 1 1 Link to comment
zen Posted March 22, 2020 Author Share Posted March 22, 2020 Looking at factors such as pace, skills, X factor, ability to intimidate the opposition, etc., along with that train like run up and charisma (though not related to skills but can get bonus points in a subjective discussion as many Australian cricketers can be uncharismatic and since all great players have good stats), Lillee, imo, continues to be Australia’s greatest pace bowler! Link to comment
zen Posted March 22, 2020 Author Share Posted March 22, 2020 My world 11 bowlers/ARs Tests * Sobers - the batting great and a bowler who can bowl both pace and spin * Gilly (WK AR) * Hadlee - not only among the greatest bowlers but can lend depth to batting as well .... among the greatest cricketers * Marshall - the premier test match fast bowler * Warne - the premier test match spinner * Ambrose - a bowling great and compliments the bowling line up well with his ability to generate bounce. Can run through sides and be unplayable in the 4th inning. The type of bowler to defend 150 or less Without looking at batting skills, Lillee can be a great contender for a spot in the playing 11 for his bowling skills - rated as a “complete” bowler Link to comment
zen Posted March 22, 2020 Author Share Posted March 22, 2020 Lillee has a great record in ODIs too. The video below appears to be from the last part of his career but his bowling is still sharp: https://youtu.be/pWfeHOjHZxQ Link to comment
zen Posted March 22, 2020 Author Share Posted March 22, 2020 (edited) Watched some more videos today .... like the atmosphere .... the crowd clapping when Lillee is running to bowl: Good to see a bowler engage the crowd in such a fashion Edited March 22, 2020 by zen Link to comment
Straight Drive Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 (edited) He and Thomson were one of the best bowling pair ever. Thomson being the most brutal of pace bowlers with little mercy for batsmen whom he injured. Lillee and Jeff could have been more dangerous if the Aussie team of that times had a good 3rd pacer. Edited March 23, 2020 by Straight Drive zen 1 Link to comment
zen Posted April 4, 2020 Author Share Posted April 4, 2020 Lillee's monument at MCG Front Inscription DENNIS LILLEE With menacing speed and bounce, Lillee burst onto the international scene when he took 8/29 against a powerful World XI at Perth in 1971. On return from a serious back injury in 1974, his slightly reduced pace was offset by a compelling mix of guile and perseverance and he became a legend of Australian cricket, retiring in 1984 as the highest Test wicket-taker with 355 victims at 23.92. Many regard Lillee as the greatest fast bowler of any era. Link to comment
Jimmy Cliff Posted April 5, 2020 Share Posted April 5, 2020 Great bowler. How did some of the best batsmen of his time fare against him? I am specially interested in how Indian batsmen measured up to him in Tests. Asking for a friend. Link to comment
Gollum Posted April 5, 2020 Share Posted April 5, 2020 The pioneers of that era, Andy Roberts and Lillee both rated Vishy above Gavaskar. Link to comment
Jimmy Cliff Posted April 5, 2020 Share Posted April 5, 2020 5 hours ago, Gollum said: The pioneers of that era, Andy Roberts and Lillee both rated Vishy above Gavaskar. Roberts is probably biased towards Vishy since he was at the receiving end of couple of ATG match-winning performances by Vishy in 1974-75 when India were down 2-0. Can't blame Lillee though as Gavaskar was woeful against him in 1971 as a part of the World XI as well as in 1981. Gollum 1 Link to comment
Gollum Posted April 7, 2020 Share Posted April 7, 2020 On 4/5/2020 at 10:09 PM, Jimmy Cliff said: Can't blame Lillee though as Gavaskar was woeful against him in 1971 as a part of the World XI as well as in 1981. Also Vishy's ATG match-winning 100 in 1981 MCG test. Jimmy Cliff 1 Link to comment
Real McCoy Posted April 7, 2020 Share Posted April 7, 2020 When lillee was bowling, he ran through the batting lineup like a billie amongst pigeons Link to comment
rkt.india Posted April 7, 2020 Share Posted April 7, 2020 On 3/22/2020 at 6:39 PM, zen said: Looking at factors such as pace, skills, X factor, ability to intimidate the opposition, etc., along with that train like run up and charisma (though not related to skills but can get bonus points in a subjective discussion as many Australian cricketers can be uncharismatic and since all great players have good stats), Lillee, imo, continues to be Australia’s greatest pace bowler! Lillie had lost his pace quite early in his career due to a stress fracture in the back. Link to comment
rkt.india Posted April 7, 2020 Share Posted April 7, 2020 On 4/5/2020 at 10:09 PM, Jimmy Cliff said: Roberts is probably biased towards Vishy since he was at the receiving end of couple of ATG match-winning performances by Vishy in 1974-75 when India were down 2-0. Can't blame Lillee though as Gavaskar was woeful against him in 1971 as a part of the World XI as well as in 1981. In 71, he was express but by 1981, he was past it, had lost pace as well. Link to comment
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