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Prudent franchises reaping dividends

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JAIPUR: After the IPL auctions earlier this year, Rahul Dravid had wished that players were never 'sold' again. Strangely enough, before the next edition of the IPL, he himself could be put up for sale. When the trading window opens in February next year, icon players like Dravid and Sourav Ganguly could well find themselves on the transfer list. According to sources, some of the franchisees are unhappy with the performance of their icon players and are even exploring avenues to 'sell' them off. IPL commissioner Lalit Modi informed TOI that although the icon players had been given special status, the franchises would be permitted to trade their 'non-performing assets'. According to BCCI sources, some of the franchisees have indicated that they be allowed to trade below-par performers for those the owners feel might be quality replacements. But Modi made it clear on Wednesday that "if the franchisees want to dispose off the icon players or the underperformers in the team, the owners will have to pay off the three-year contract money to them". Or else, they can be traded to some other teams when the IPL trading window opens next February. "This format is quite unpredictable. The top team in the first seven matches may not be the same when the league finishes. But if some franchisee wants new players and wants to dispose off their icon, they will have to pay the three-year contract money. If some other teams are willing to buy them, then those players' salaries will have to be paid by the new owners. In fact, the trading window opens next year in February," Modi said. "The IPL rule is fixed for next three years. There will be eight foreign players in the team out of which four can be inducted in the playing XI. On top of this, if the franchisees want to sign up new players, they are welcome to do so. But in that case, you will have to pay that player's salary. But the rule to have eight of them in the team and four on the field will remain," Modi said. There are some franchisees like team Mohali and Delhi Daredevils, though, who are quite happy with their icons Yuvraj Singh and Virender Sehwag.

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can these people first come up with better euphemistic words?? 'underperformers', 'auction', 'slap', etc... jeez, they could've just called it 'trades'..........

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..nothing abt Sachin yet but Ambani is not one of those to complain about it anyways Besides, who will not be happy with viru and yuvi anyways

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..nothing abt Sachin yet but Ambani is not one of those to complain about it anyways Besides, who will not be happy with viru and yuvi anyways
i know u r smart rajeev but lot of people r not, for eg. yuvi haters here lol

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The franchisees better not complain. In the original deal, they agreed to pay the Icons the million dollar deal per year. But what beats me is why whould ANYONE want to pay $ 1 millions for Dravid or Ganguly's T20 skills in the year 2011 ?? How can such rules and deals be frozen for 3 years in such a short format of the game , especially when these players are already not part of the ODI team , and are likely to be dropped / retired from cricket in a year. This reinforces my conviction that the Gangulys, Dravids, Kumbles etc just strong armed the BCCI into ensuring their sale for preposterous amounts, and have laughed all the way to the bank. Next year, if there is a free matket situation, these players wont go for even $ 10,000, and most probably be ignored totally. But there is no free market for them.

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The franchisees better not complain. In the original deal, they agreed to pay the Icons the million dollar deal per year. But what beats me is why whould ANYONE want to pay $ 1 millions for Dravid or Ganguly's T20 skills in the year 2011 ?? How can such rules and deals be frozen for 3 years in such a short format of the game , especially when these players are already not part of the ODI team , and are likely to be dropped / retired from cricket in a year. This reinforces my conviction that the Gangulys, Dravids, Kumbles etc just strong armed the BCCI into ensuring their sale for preposterous amounts, and have laughed all the way to the bank. Next year, if there is a free matket situation, these players wont go for even $ 10,000, and most probably be ignored totally. But there is no free market for them.
For me, what's crazy is Dravid's statement "I'm beginning to learn T20"?!? Dude you don't get paid over $1 million just so that you can BEGIN to learn the T20 game...if you knew you were gonna suck at the format initially (due to this so-called learning curve) then you could have saved yourself the embarrassment (like VVS) and rejected the icon status... See I'm no Rohan, but yes I'm beginning to see why VVS is so awesome. Besides, I met him in person (since he went to our school and had come back to visit) and he's really a gentleman as all other cricketers put it.

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Prudent franchises reaping dividends Franchises of teams like Bangalore and Hyderabad, which spend a lot of money on players, are not fairing well in compared to the relatively lightweights like Jaipur and Mohali. Subhash Rajta examines... See graph. More... Prudent franchises reaping dividends Subhash Rajta , Hindustan Times Chennai, May 09, 2008 First Published: 00:55 IST(9/5/2008) Last Updated: 01:21 IST(9/5/2008) If money could fix results, the teams's standing at the half-way mark of the IPL should have been the opposite of what it is. The supposed heavyweights ‘Mumbai, Bangalore and Hyderabad, bought for whopping $111.9 million, $111.6 million and $107 million respectively’ should have been in the top half instead of languishing among the bottom four. By that logic, the relatively lightweights, Mohali ($76 million) and Delhi ($84 million), and Jaipur ($67 million), should have been fighting for survival. But that’s not how it is. The least expensive teams are perched at the top and it’s the heavyweights that are vying with each other in the fight to avoid being at rock bottom. See the graph. The situation they are in has a lot do with how their potential match-winners, on whom the franchise spent big money, have fared so far. Being thrifty pays The Jaipur story is the most interesting. They refrained from spending huge amounts on any individual, so much so that at one stage they were facing the prospect of incurring a penalty for not spending the required $5 million on buying players. They spent the maximum on Mohammed Kaif ($675000) and snared up a champion like Shane Warne for just $450,000. In what would arguably be the best buy of the league, they bought Shane Watson for mere $125,000 and Pakistan left-arm seamer Sohail Tanvir for just $100,000. Mohali, too, seemed to have got it right. They shelled out the maximum amount to book Irfan Pathan and Brett Lee after their icon player and skipper Yuvraj Singh. Though Lee left after playing four matches, Pathan is giving them value for money, leading the wicket takers's chart. Delhi are another team who seem to have spent their money well. Virender Sehwag, the icon, and Gautam Gambhir, their most expensive players, are among the top run getters and have been giving them a flying start. But their best buy would be Glenn McGrath (he was picked up from the reserve pool after no one bid for him). McGrath has proved his weight with his superb showings. Money for nothing? When it comes to money not well spent, Mumbai top the list what with Sachin Tendulkar, their icon player, not taking the field so far owing to injury; Sanath Jayasuriya not living up to expectations and Harbhajan Singh making a disgraceful exit. As for Kolkata, their big buy Chris Gayle hasn't played owing to injury and Brandon McCullum left too early to make a lasting impression. As for their biggest buy, Ishant Sharma ($ 9,50,000), the sum was perhaps too big for the youngster to justify. Bangalore too are struggling. Jacques Kallis, their biggest buy ($900,000) after icon Rahul Dravid, has been disappointing and Dravid too has proved to be ineffective. The Hyderabad mystery Amid all this, Hyderabad present a strange picture. They spent a packet on Andrew Symonds, Gilchrist, RP Singh and Rohit Sharma and all of them have performed well. Yet, they are struggling at the bottom, something quite inexplicable.

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For me, what's crazy is Dravid's statement "I'm beginning to learn T20"?!? Dude you don't get paid over $1 million just so that you can BEGIN to learn the T20 game...if you knew you were gonna suck at the format initially (due to this so-called learning curve) then you could have saved yourself the embarrassment (like VVS) and rejected the icon status... See I'm no Rohan, but yes I'm beginning to see why VVS is so awesome. Besides, I met him in person (since he went to our school and had come back to visit) and he's really a gentleman as all other cricketers put it.
lol, dude i was invited to his marriage i could have been kicking it with all the cricket players.My dad is very close to VVS. You guys misinterpret me. People love Sachin, People love ganguly, People love dravid. The same way i feel about VVS not only for his stylish and sublime batting but for the person he is, i know i may praise him a little too much sometimes, but hes a great person and the most humble sportsman you will ever meet. If you ever knew Laxman you would realize that he is not all about money like these stupid cricketers in india, hes all about performance. People got blind love in India thats all i gotta say. They still complain and biitch about his perfomance in the IPL, in all honesty whats wrong with his performance?, why are people biitching about it. Look at the players making millions, mad shameful. This is a test cricketer whose been out of the limited over scheme of things for years now but yet he is sublime i dont know about you guys but i feel like VVS has been more than a capable 2020 player and hes only going to get better.

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Why Laxman is never a star: -------------------------- He looks lazy. He never plays for crowd He never looks aggreesive. He never a Ad endorsement for himself. He dont earn much. His own city/state never supports him (as Dada gets from Calcutta) And unfortunately thats what people in India judge crickters by, you guys all know it.

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VVS Rocks. Sachin owns. Dravid is a legend. and Dada is a prince. And all you fickle minded members one here support sh!t players that can hit the ball hard, forgetting everything these great cricketers have done for the Indian team, and are continuing to do for the nation and sides. Dravid is batting WELL. Under circumstances of his team and other pressures around him, an average of 23 ish is GREAT. Did any of you loser Dravid haters watch that innings? VVS has been good and I don't know why anyone is complaining. An average of 32 and a strike rate of 120 is awesome especially for someone who isn't a slogger. His captaincy has been decent as well, so just shove it. Ganguly has batted on crap pitches and/or been done by some good bowling. His captaincy makes him worth it, and his bowling has come good as well. So to everyone: :finger:

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Oh well, it isn't just the icon players who are not giving richly back to the franchises who've got them for over million dollars for their teams. There are many other expensive players who've didsappointed their owners no ends, for example Harbhajan, who was banned after just three matches, Jayasurya whose price is nearly a million but hasn't delivered anything substantial as yet, Robin Uthappa who has underperformed for the price which were dished out for him. You can take a look yourself at such players: prudent.jpg Secondly a line for Hari: Why is it irking you so much that Sachin has not played a match despite being an icon player or Dravid has not delivered as an icon player should have? They are not your employees, nor are YOU paying for them. Ambani and Mallya are paying for them and if they think that they're not worth it, they'll fire them--simple! It is they who hired them for millions and it is they who can fire them whenever they want. You don't have to go in an overdrive criticising the icon players for their million dollar contracts.

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About firing: All the players have a 3-year contract. If a franchise wants to fire, they have to pay the entire 3 years. A franchise can trade players with other franchise provided the other franchise is going to absorb the player and compensate for the payment.

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Seconly a line for Hari: Why is it irking you so much that Sachin has not played a match despite being an icon player or Dravid has not delivered as an icon player should have? They are not your employees, nor are YOU paying for them. Ambani and Mallya are paying for them and if they think that they're not worth it, they'll fire them--simple! It is they who hired them for millions and it is they who can fire them whenever they want. You don't have to go in an overdrive criticising the icon playersfor their million dollar contract.
Why do you criticise cricketers at all....how many players are employed by you to play for India ? I never knew criticism needs to have an eligibility factor like "employing " the players.... Ambani, Mallaya and other franchisees DID NOT pay these icons by choice for your kind information. The "icons" were fixed by the BCCI ( where these same icons have an iron fist of clout) who then TOLD the franchises that they "have to pay the icons 15% more than the next highest player"....and these ICONS then decided themselves who taht "next highest player was and how much they will bid for them"...in short the Icons fixed their own prices with help from the BCCI; franchises had NO choice. And your take on the right to criticising is solely restricted to to those who "pay" is childish, to say the least....incidentally do you know that I dont own stock in United breweries or Reliance for that matter?? maybe I do :giggle:

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About firing: All the players have a 3-year contract. If a franchise wants to fire, they have to pay the entire 3 years. A franchise can trade players with other franchise provided the other franchise is going to absorb the player and compensate for the payment.
Exactly...that is how Dravid, Ganguly and Sachin were ENSURED of $ 3.5 millions even before a ball was bowled in the IPL....and naturally Dravid and Ganguly wont say no, after all they got it fixed that way. Look at the amounts of money the "senior " players have guaranteed themselves through the BCCI. Dravid : 3.3 millions Ganguly : 3 .5 millions Kumble : 1.5 millions and many many others...the franchisees were sold this deal, and the seniors planned it this way because NO WAY will Dravid or Ganguly or Kumble be able to get those millions if the franchisees were given a choice..and the franchisees just signed it as part of the total cost of the franchise. Its like selling a Lemon car for $100,000 , and saying it may not run at all, but you still have to pay...its your baby and you maintain it at those costs whether you like it or not....if you want a drivers licence you GOT TO buy this lemon at the price we fix. And then if you want to cut your losses and sell the car at $ 50,000...well you cant...you HAVE to sell it for the same price you bought it for..and if there are no takers...tough luck, its a bad world.

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Why do you criticise cricketers at all....how many players are employed by you to play for India ? I never knew criticism needs to have an eligibility factor like "employing " the players....
Exactly! Why would you criticise a player? You are just a spectator and you can just express whether you liked his game or not. If you liked it, why or if you didn't like it then why. You are not concerned with whatever he is earning. How many times have you sympathised with a FC bowler who gets injured bowling for his state and goes income less for years? How many times have you come up with your ideas about how to help them? If you are not concerned with their lack of income, you have NO RIGHT to be critical of how much they earn! You can criticise a player's performance but you are absolutely no one to say whether is certain player is right for such and such amount of contract which is paid by his employer.
Ambani, Mallaya and other franchisees DID NOT pay these icons by choice for your kind information. The "icons" were fixed by the BCCI ( where these same icons have an iron fist of clout) who then TOLD the franchises that they "have to pay the icons 15% more than the next highest player"....and these ICONS then decided themselves who taht "next highest player was and how much they will bid for them"...in short the Icons fixed their own prices with help from the BCCI; franchises had NO choice.
Very wrong. In fact these franchises are not concerned just by cricket and they want these players for various ads of their products as well. In other words, they would prefer a glamorous and popular under performing star to a performing unknown. IPL is not just about cricket if you haven't understood it as yet! And these franchises wanted these players to be in their team exclusively and hence they requested BCCI well before to not put those four stars of each city on sale. So much so that Ambani was not interested in who else was bought for his franchise after getting Sachin. After that Delhi and Hyderabad also requested for Viru and Laxman's icon status for their own franchises. I hope you've understood it now.
And your take on the right to criticising is solely restricted to to those who "pay" is childish, to say the least....incidentally do you know that I don't own stock in United breweries or Reliance for that matter?? maybe I do :giggle:
I hope you get this point cleared after I replied to your point earlier. And even if you belong to any of the franchise you have NO RIGHT to pull down these players on the basis of money earned, on a public forum.

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Exactly! Why would you criticise a player? You are just a spectator and you can just express whether you liked his game or not. If you liked it, why or if you didn't like it then why.
I have every right to criticise a player for his cricket as well as the money paid to him. If you dont understand this....its called "sports following" , meaning any fan of any game can express any opinion about the player, his team, what the player is being paid, whether he is worth it or not, whether he has contrived to get the amount and all else connected with the sport. You know why ?? Bevcause eventually the game is played for fans..and if there was not even one person watching a game...that game will have NO following, and player will get NO money...so you and I following the game are DIRECTLY responsible for the stars making millions...so you and I have every right to applaud AND criticise..
You are not concerned with whatever he is earning. How many times have you sympathised with a FC bowler who gets injured bowling for his state and goes income less for years? How many times have you come up with your ideas about how to help them ?If you are not concerned with their lack of income, you have NO RIGHT to be critical of how much they earn!
Now...you are getting a bit ahead of yourself...arent you ? Do you know the number of FC cricketers I have helped to get a job, or league contract in England or just to help setup a sports shop ? Why do I have to provide all these stats to you ? Just to clear up any doubt you may have...I had been one of the foremost votaries of equal pay for all cricketers playing a test/ODI and had been a scating critic of the "guaranteed graded pay" system where "stars" rake in huge amounts and performing youngsters get far less. In fact in 2002, when Krish Srikkanth was supporting the senior players in a very big manner for this system, I had a long public debate with him on his website and other sites as well, and was totally critical of that sysytem he was supporting foolishly ( which is what we have now)....
You can criticise a player's performance but you are absolutely no one to say whether is certain player is right for such and such amount of contract which is paid by his employer.
In the Indian cricket scheme of things, BCCI is the employer of players in Tests and ODIs...just to clarify my position, here is a small extract of what I think of the performance pay system ....from an article I wrote years back..
Nowadays there are efforts to "grade" a player based on past experience and performance. Among others,my good friend of 2 decades and former India captain Kris Srikkanth too has been an advocate of this system, arguing that " a player who has played a 100 tests cannot be expected to be paid the same amount as a player playing in his first series". My dear Cheeka, I beg to differ.... try saying this to the umpires!! “A player who has played 100 tests cannot be given leg before the same way as a debutant. A seasoned veteran should not be clobbered for a six for bowling a full toss, but a rookie canâ€. Cricket disagrees! A debutante's run is the same as a Star's run, as are the wickets. If a debutant takes 6 wkts or scores a 100 and wins a match for India today, why should he be paid lesser for the day's work, when the star batsman or bowler , having miseraby failed is raking in 10 times more money ?? Imagine the complacency this promotes in so called established stars, and the despondency among the aspiring stars. The solution? For winning games, have an overall pay packet, and divide it after the game based on performances that contributed to the win, based on evaluation. A crucial 35 notout by a new player when the side is chasing 190 to win and is 120-7 is far more valuable than a 60 made by a star coming in at 285-4 in the first innings. Same is the case with bowling and getting 2 wickets when defending 150, as opposed to getting 4 wkts when the opposition side is slogging to declare the innings. Who gives a damn whether Dravid or Sachin has played more and is paid more based on that , if India doesn't win. All of Sachin's 29 past hundreds couldn't save India yesterday. One single 200 from a new player could well have done so. Why all this ? Because like 1 billion other Indian fans... I care..
I hope this clarifies my position....and the last line clarifies why I have a position at all...and as all players have their name and fame and money by performing on a public stage...I have every right to express my opinion on a public forum...just as anyone else too. Hope it answers your comment below.
I hope you get this point cleared after I replied to your point earlier. And even if you belong to any of the franchise you have NO RIGHT to pull down these players on the basis of money earned, on a public forum.

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Very wrong. In fact these franchises are not concerned just by cricket and they want these players for various ads of their products as well. In other words, they would prefer a glamorous and popular under performing star to a performing unknown. IPL is not just about cricket if you haven't understood it as yet! And these franchises wanted these players to be in their team exclusively and hence they requested BCCI well before to not put those four stars of each city on sale. So much so that Ambani was not interested in who else was bought for his franchise after getting Sachin. After that Delhi and Hyderabad also requested for Viru and Laxman's icon status for their own franchises. I hope you've understood it now.
You have got things TOTALLY mixed up Chandan. The IPL FIRST fixed the Franchises based on city and also the "icon players" who will be part of that franchise ( City franchises and the city stars were fixed as unauctionable BEFORE the team auction)...AND their prices ( this was fixed between the franchise auction and the player auctions, but franchises had NO say in it)...much before the city franchises were bid for by the Ambanis and the Mallayas..so when these business houses bid for the city franchise rights they HAD to take the Icons as part of the deal AND had to pay the amounts fixed...please understand facts and put them in their proper sequence before shooting off wild and misinformed statements here...for someone who I thought was well versed with Indian cricket...your comments are way too uninformed ....and disappointing.

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I have every right to criticise a player for his cricket as well as the money paid to him. If you dont understand this....its called "sports following" , meaning any fan of any game can express any opinion about the player, his team, what the player is being paid, whether he is worth it or not, whether he has contrived to get the amount and all else connected with the sport. You know why ?? Bevcause eventually the game is played for fans..and if there was not even one person watching a game...that game will have NO following, and player will get NO money...so you and I following the game are DIRECTLY responsible for the stars making millions...so you and I have every right to applaud AND criticise..
Oh really?? The employees are not forcing you to watch the game. You can stop watching the game from today itself, if you like. BUT YOU ARE NOT PAYING the cricketers. Hence please stop getting on the high horse about whether Dravid is worth million dollars or not. That is not you business. Stay out of it. You and I have every right to applaud or criticise a players performance, not his income!
Now...you are getting a bit ahead of yourself...aren't you ? Do you know the number of FC cricketers I have helped to get a job, or league contract in England or just to help setup a sports shop ? Why do I have to provide all these stats to you ? Just to clear up any doubt you may have...I had been one of the foremost votaries of equal pay for all cricketers playing a test/ODI and had been a scating critic of the "guaranteed graded pay" system where "stars" rake in huge amounts and performing youngsters get far less. In fact in 2002, when Krish Srikkanth was supporting the senior players in a very big manner for this system, I had a long public debate with him on his website and other sites as well, and was totally critical of that sysytem he was supporting foolishly ( which is what we have now)....
Sorry Hari. But I don't believe you. If you want us to believe that, then you must give some proof. Like even a timely concern or thread or showing your disgust at certain players' misery would do. I'm really sorry to say that I haven't read even one post of yours addressing that problem. And hence I'll maintain that you have no business to pull down players who are earning more because of their selfless service to Indian cricket since decades.
In the Indian cricket scheme of things, BCCI is the employer of players in Tests and ODIs...just to clarify my position, here is a small extract of what I think of the performance pay system ....from an article I wrote years back.. I hope this clarifies my position....and the last line clarifies why I have a position at all...and as all players have their name and fame and money by performing on a public stage...I have every right to express my opinion on a public forum...just as anyone else too. Hope it answers your comment below.
Ummm.. no. I suppose that performance based payment is useless. Cricket is not an office work. And we are talking about IPL here, not BCCI. Here different franchise are paying the players at their own will. Hence let us stick to IPL here. And I still maintain that you have no right to criticise a player, on the basis of whatever they are being paid by their employers, on a public forum. If you are so disgusted why don't you contact few of the franchisees and express your disgust and advice them to sack such players? You're pretty influential, aren't you? Hence please stop pulling down these players on public forum.
You have got things TOTALLY mixed up Chandan. The IPL FIRST fixed the Franchises based on city and also the "icon players" who will be part of that franchise ( City franchises and the city stars were fixed as unauctionable BEFORE the team auction)...AND their prices ( this was fixed between the franchise auction and the player auctions' date=' but franchises had NO say in it)...much before the city franchises were bid for by the Ambanis and the Mallayas..so when these business houses bid for the city franchise rights they HAD to take the Icons as part of the deal AND had to pay the amounts fixed...please understand facts and put them in their proper sequence before shooting off wild and misinformed statements here...for someone who I thought was well versed with Indian cricket...your comments are way too uninformed ....and disappointing.[/quote'] Sorry Hari, but it is you who is uninformed here. The Mumbai, Bangalore, Mohali and Kolkata franchise wanted Sachin, Dravid, Yuvi and Ganguly as their players. Icon status was given by BCCI and franchisees agreed. In fact after getting Kolkata franchise, Shah Rukh khan said on NDTV that even if BCCI had not given iconic status to Ganguly, he'd have been the first player in SRK's list who would have been bought for any cost. Mukesh Ambani said that we've got Sachin, who else do we want? What are these statements saying? Accepting something which had been thrust upon them and paying them over one million dollars unwillingly? I'd suggest you to get you IPL information dusted and clear your doubts!

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Take a look at how the Icons were fixed along with their pays BEFORE the city teams were even bought by the Mallayas and Ambanis......'nuff said about your ignorance of facts . Now just accept that you were plain wrong when you said that the franchise owners like Mallaya and Ambani wanted these players in their gteams and also the prices they were willing to pay. It is as clear as daylight that the "icons" were fixed FIRST and then stuffed down the throats of the bidders of all city teams duh

'Icons' Dravid, Sourav to be best paid in IPL 23 Jan, 2008 0005hrs IST, TNN / Indranil Basu NEW DELHI, January 22: Sourav Ganguly and Rahul Dravid may have been axed from the One-day team for Australia, but there is some good news for them. In the inaugural Indian Premier League (IPL) which starts from April 18, BCCI has decided to pay them and some other senior cricketers 10-15% more money than the highest auctioned player of the Twenty20 event. Sources said BCCI has shortlisted five cricketers — Sachin Tendulkar, Sourav Ganguly, Rahul Dravid, MS Dhoni and Yuvraj Singh — who will be called "icon players" and will be the highest paid players in the league. They will not be auctioned if they have a city team. IPL chairman Lalit Modi confirmed, "This is one of the BCCI suggestions and it awaits the nod of the IPL board. The player bids will take place next month." A top BCCI official added that regular members of the Indian team will probably make Rs 1.2 crore to Rs 2 crore from the 44-day event, with the icon players getting the highest amount. BCCI is expecting Kolkata, Mumbai and Bangalore to host teams for IPL. If Chandigarh doesn't have a city team, Yuvraj will be open for auction. Dhoni too will probably be auctioned.

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Sources said BCCI has shortlisted five cricketers — Sachin Tendulkar, Sourav Ganguly, Rahul Dravid, MS Dhoni and Yuvraj Singh — who will be called "icon players" and will be the highest paid players in the league. They will not be auctioned if they have a city team. You're telling me believe these ill informed articles of india times Hari? The first loophole bulged out from this sentence only---was Dhoni given a icon status? No. He was very much up for sale as all of us know. I had been posting the news about IPL ever since it began. You can go and read the thread "All news about IPL". Of course only those were posted which appeared in feed and which the forummers posted. Still you'll get a lot of information about IPL from there.

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You have got things TOTALLY mixed up Chandan. The IPL FIRST fixed the Franchises based on city and also the "icon players" who will be part of that franchise ( City franchises and the city stars were fixed as unauctionable BEFORE the team auction)...AND their prices ( this was fixed between the franchise auction and the player auctions, but franchises had NO say in it)...much before the city franchises were bid for by the Ambanis and the Mallayas..so when these business houses bid for the city franchise rights they HAD to take the Icons as part of the deal AND had to pay the amounts fixed...please understand facts and put them in their proper sequence before shooting off wild and misinformed statements here...for someone who I thought was well versed with Indian cricket...your comments are way too uninformed ....and disappointing.
You're funny, Hari. It's not like Ambani and Mallaya had a gun pointing at their heads that they HAD to buy a franchise with icon players in it. There are franchises without icons as well. Why didn't they buy those? Simple. Commercial interest for the star value of the icon players. And you can accuse Mallaya and Ambani of picking dud sides, but you can't accuse them of being poor businessmen.

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Most of the icon players have fared poorly in 20/20. They have been a drag on their team (Dravid probably more so since he had a big hand in team selection with selection of Jaffer and Kallis being the feathers in his cap). However, at the end of the day this was a win-win. BCCI needed the support of these senior players to make IPL successful (and to keep them from joining ICL). However, the market value of the icon players would have been low so the pay off was the icon rule. The teams got stuck with the price tag of these non performing assets (on the cricket field). However, they made a conscious choice to take on this cost because overall they anticipated to make a profit + the icon players have helped in giving the teams a name/personality to market around. SO from a cricketing perspective the icons are a flop but from a business perspective they have not been as much of a drag.

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It's quite silly of the media and fans to question a player's worth. I agree with Chandan the worth was decided by the owners and they are the ones to reap the benefits or bear the burden. That said people are mising the point if the franchises did not pick these icon players the fans would not have followed IPL as they are doing right now. Without the presence of the international cricket stars IPL would be no good and franchises did not buy these players just because they are good players. They bought them because they bring in the crowd and the stakes for selling the broadcast rights go up by heaps If Tendulkar, Rahul, Ganguly, Ponting, Kallis and the rest were not in the mix, the TV right would not have sold for as much as it has. It's so stupid of the media to calculate a players performance against the money that has been spent on the player. How about the gate collections or the TV rights IPL was able to sell for huge prices only because these popular players were present in the mix? If only the likes of Watson, Marsh, Badrinath type of players were chosen because they fit the format well the TV rights would have sold for nothing and franchses would have made nothing despite their huge investments. IPL would then have ended in a failure and would have been no better than ICL. 50% of the success should be attributed to the presence of the likes of Tendulkar, Rahul, Gangly, Ponting, Symonds, Warne, Gilly, Sehwag, Jayasuriya and the likes. Without these IPL is as good as English county cricket.

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Absolutely nothing wrong in criticizing duds who are raking in millions for doing $hit. Robbery it is, by our icons. (legal robbery) SRT has not yet played, so he is left out of this discussion of SG, RD, VVS, + nonicon duds Afridi, Gibbs, Jayasuriya et al if ur an icon, to get 15% over next highest, BCCI shud have tied perf criteria to it. u get 15% higher, only if u score this avg atleast at this strike rate with these min# of runs etc Useless duds in 2020 shud not be icons. They belong in Tests and shud stay there.

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Absolutely nothing wrong in criticizing duds who are raking in millions for doing . Robbery it is, by our icons. (legal robbery) SRT has not yet played, so he is left out of this discussion of SG, RD, VVS, + nonicon duds Afridi, Gibbs, Jayasuriya et al
If none of these featured in the IPL we will not have followed IPL as vigorously and IPL would never have been this successful. It's as simple as that. They are not just paid to perform but also bring in millions/billions in terms of TV rights, audience and gate collections. The amount of contribution to IPL by these stars whether they are performing or not is unimaginable and could even be about 50 times as much as they are paid. The players can be criticized but why are you guys annoyed at what they are paid? They are paid that kind of sum because they are salable. Don't reckon a Vidhyut or S.Marsh is capable enough to bring in spectators in big numbers or rake in millions for IPL for the TV rights.

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It is absurd to claim that we do not indirectly pay for these stars. TV rights money is a big part of the income for the IPL and the franchises. As long as you are paying for any form of legal TV coverage you are contributing to the player salaries. Regarding questioning how much they make, that is standard practice. What a player makes and what he performs are things fans discuss world over. May be it is new for some folks in India who have never witnessed any pro sports. For those who have followed any pro sports, they know that player money discussions are part of the debate amongst fans.

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It is absurd to claim that we do not indirectly pay for these stars. TV rights money is a big part of the income for the IPL and the franchises. As long as you are paying for any form of legal TV coverage you are contributing to the player salaries. Regarding questioning how much they make, that is standard practice. What a player makes and what he performs are things fans discuss world over. May be it is new for some folks in India who have never witnessed any pro sports. For those who have followed any pro sports, they know that player money discussions are part of the debate amongst fans.
In the same breath you are welcome not to follow IPL don't you think so that you are not contributing to their salaries? It's all about demand and supply. People want to see the stars and that is what they get.

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In the same breath you are welcome not to follow IPL don't you think so that you are not contributing to their salaries? It's all about demand and supply. People want to see the stars and that is what they get.
I want to follow it, so I pay for it. Since I am paying for it I also discuss their salaries. Don't see what the issue is there. Just because I don't like how the contract aspect of the game has been handled so far doesn't mean I shouldn't follow the game or talk about the disparity in money and/or icon player selection, etc.

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There are a few interesting sub discussions here: 1) Icon Players I dont believe the respective teams would have been less marketable without the icon players. Nor do i believe the fans would have deserted the teams had there not been a local star. a) The T20 team that won the world cup was well received & was the darling of the nation for quite sometime. The victory parade in Mumbai, saw perhaps the biggest crowd for a cricket team. The team that drew that kind of fan response, did not have any of the old icon players in its ranks. b) Chennai's adopted son Dhoni, is another example. He has proved that if you can keep winning, you will be hailed as a superstar, no matter where you are from. c) Sachin hasnt even played a game yet and still Mumbai fans are passionate about their team, hoping for a turnaround in their fortunes. Suffice to say that this concept of icon players & their hypothetical value to the resp teams, is flawed -- a small blunder, one that we can excuse Modi for. However I'll agree that if you lineup a team full of regional dodos, with some international stars such as Gilly, Symonds, Ponting and Watson, such a team would have no identity. Modi must have sold all the star players just the way Dhoni was sold. Just set a base price & let the teams that want the stars bid for them. The icons still could have been given a choice to play for their local teams, taking lower bids, if they wished. Such an auction would have been fair for everyone involved -- the icons, the franchise owners & the fans. 2) Franchise Owners I dont have any sympathy for any of the franchise owners. They are all successful businessmen, to boot. Dont they have the common sense to research a venture, before making an investment ? Bangalore RYC dont suck just because of one icon player. They suck because of their collective team. If Bangalore RYC picked a test team to play T20 league, the fault squarely lies with Mallya. Either, Mr. Mallya does not have a clue about cricket (in which case he shouldnt have invested such a large sum of money) or that he simply didnt care about the results (and is only in it for the pride of ownership of a team representing one of the largest metros in the country). In either case, Mallya has nothing to complain. The teams that have done well so far, arent the ones with the big names gleaned off the auctions., rather, the ones with the best regional players (because of the simple reason that the regional players outnumber the international stars). And among these regional players, barring one or two Indian stars, every team has 3 to 4 no namers making up the roster. More often than not, these no namers make or break the team. So inspite of the non performance of the icons, the franchises could have still found a way to put together a winning XI. The fact that they havent, means they have only themselves to blame.

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Sources said BCCI has shortlisted five cricketers — Sachin Tendulkar' date= Sourav Ganguly, Rahul Dravid, MS Dhoni and Yuvraj Singh — who will be called "icon players" and will be the highest paid players in the league. They will not be auctioned if they have a city team. You're telling me believe these ill informed articles of india times Hari? The first loophole bulged out from this sentence only---was Dhoni given a icon status? No. He was very much up for sale as all of us know. I had been posting the news about IPL ever since it began. You can go and read the thread "All news about IPL". Of course only those were posted which appeared in feed and which the forummers posted. Still you'll get a lot of information about IPL from there.
"ill informed" ? what exactly do you mean. That article almost perfectly got it and specifically speaks about the subject of "icon players", refers to these players and also most correctly speaks about the amount of money they are going to be paid. i.e 15% above the highest player in the team. The only thing was Dhoni was classified as an icon status player, but at that time BCCI had not yet decided ( or disclosed) whether Dhoni would be "assigned" to any city franchise as he himself did not have his own city franchise..thats NO loophole. You need to note that the article also says that players without city teams in this list would be auctioned , which is what happened to Dhoni. Moreover the BCCI had obviously wanted to leave the Dhoni question hanging for one more day in order to boost bidding interest in the franchises as Dhoni was obviously the most sought after player in the country. But still it has been established beyond doubt that it was the BCCI which fixed the Icons and their salaries and NOT the specific franchises as the franchises were not even chosen at the time BCCI fixed the city Icons. And....yes, I DO believe that a publication like Times of India would get its facts correct...if you dont think so, tell me ANY one which will do so. Almost all publications for that matter carried stories of "icon players and their salaries" much before the franchises were won in bidding by the business people. And I dont see anywhere in your IPL thread that the Franchises , that is Mallaya, Ambani and Co. wanted to retain the Icons and also wanted to pay them 15% more pay than the highest paid cricketer in heir sides...which is what you have been claiming all along...so show me proof of this outrageous claim of yours. But I have provided more than sufficient proof that the entire "icon scam" was the doing of the BCCI before Mallaya and Ambani came into the picture.

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If none of these featured in the IPL we will not have followed IPL as vigorously and IPL would never have been this successful. It's as simple as that. They are not just paid to perform but also bring in millions/billions in terms of TV rights' date=' audience and gate collections. The amount of contribution to IPL by these stars whether they are performing or not is unimaginable and could even be about 50 times as much as they are paid. The players can be criticized but why are you guys annoyed at what they are paid? They are paid that kind of sum because they are salable. Don't reckon a Vidhyut or S.Marsh is capable enough to bring in spectators in big numbers or rake in millions for IPL for the TV rights.[/quote'] I disagree that it is just these 4-5 icons who have made the IPL successful or for that matter bring the crowds in. In my view it is the presence of the foreign stars that has brought the interest to this IPL , combined with the Indian ODI players/T20 players. NOT the Dravids and Gangulys ( because we cannot combine these 2 along with the other icons who would have fetched high prices anyways). If you think that these Indian seniors can bring millions to the Tv sets/grounds in T20 you are way off track with reality. These same players had been playing other tournaments like One day Ranji, Deodhar trophy etc for ages and hardly anyone takes a second glance. The IPL has been "internationalised" by the presence of the Warnes , Symonds, Gillys, McGraths, Pollocks , Haydens and Muralis, and the T20 champs like the Dhonis , Yuvrajs and Sehwags thrown in...its got a "world cup " feel. That is the one and only key to its success. Among all the icons, Tendulkar , Sehwag, Yuvraj and ganguly are the only ones who can be said to possess strong "local following" as well as a star value as far as a limited overs situation is concerned. Even here, Ganguly makes the cut because no other player identifies with his city as much as Saurav ganguly....in Kolkatta , Ganguly = Cricket. period. And he has a better than average one day performance and image , and so any franchise would have wanted him in their team and not allow him to other teams ...( because it makes sense, otherwise if ganguly plays for some other ciy, it would probably be a much costlier affair to reconstruct a burnt down Eden gardens :--D ). Even Tendulkar doesnt have this kind of a "local following" in Mumbai...he is a more pan national figure. In my view, this IPL could have well been a success without any one or more of the stars because there have been simply too many stars playing....and IF at all one player gained in a huge way because BCCI fixed his status....and also his pay...it is ONLY Rahul Dravid, because by himself he could not have achieved ANY of the above. He sucks big time in T20 , he has no great "local support" or passionate Bangalore following, he has no big "limited overs " image , and with or without him IPL would have gone on...just as any one else....but he is the one whose absence would have hardly been noticed in IPL, and so I say he has raked in the millions while not deserving a single cent.

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Hari' date=' you are once again evading the point I made - even if we accept your arguments that the Icon players were decided beforehand, no one forced Mallaya and Ambani to buy those franchises with the Icons.[/quote'] I had dealt with it completely when I posted elsewhere on why these franchises bid and what sort of a business this is to them, elsewhere, but anyways here goes. Yes NO ONE forced mallaya and ambani to buy these "icons"...they fully knew what they were going in for. And to any franchise spending $ 80-100 millions for rights, paying a few millions extra to a useless T20 player like Dravid is peanuts....no businessman will back out of it. My point is that IF they had a choice ( that is if they as franchisees could have decided) then NO WAY Dravid would have been assured $ 3.5 millions for a 3 year contract. The franchise as a business is actually a MUCH larger scam as I had posted in detail elsewhere. Its all a question of corporate accounting. These corporate houses/business people have so many unaccounted millions , that they routinely re-cycle the same within their own parent-subsidiary companies all the time, create shell companies , create losses on paper, gain market positioning etc by associating with such ventures. They also funnel personal unaccounted money into their official corporate holdings, write off profit/loss balances, claim tax breaks for new venture capital, non matured investments, projected devaluation of long term investments, opportunity to show a profit/loss in any particular year to stock holders by cross written expenses, claim stock upgradation based on what is called in professional circles as "crystal ball projections" etc. The list is way too long here , and as a policy consultant for corporates with one of the world's leading stock indices / finacial analysts ,Standard and Poor, I can tell you in my professional capacity that the Mallayas and Ambanis would hardly bat an eyelid to pay useless players a few extra millions if they are in a forced situation because for them those few millions is a drop in the bucket as the real deal is getting the franchise . I can assure you that it is an industry standard in the corporate world that when $ 100 millions is cycled 3 times within, and incurs a loss of , say 10% on paper , the actual / real gain would be in the range of 30% oevrall for the corporate in terms of the abovementioned tax/stock/value advantages. To make things much simpler for the layperson...If I had a company that has a turnover of $ 1 billion , a real estate/construction company , lets assume...and then I get an opportunity to bid for/buy a property in Mumbai for $100 millions. Now if the Govt insists that if I have to get that property at that price, I have to pay for a small govt owned dilapidated house within the property at a rate of $10 millions which it is hardly worth...I would happily do so, because that $10 millions is nothing to me compared to what the property value of $100 millions brings me. AND...even the $100 millions is an investment where I am not exactly seeking huge profits...I would even be satisfied if I lost 10% on it annually, because as part of my $ 1 billion corporate, this 100 million company helps me gain/not lose 30% a year by the various other manipulations. But..The point is IF I had a choice not to buy that dilapidated govt house over priced at $10 millions, if I were still assured of buying that property at $ 100 millions, I would certainly NOT waste my 10 millions, because I am a businessman and wont spend a cent extra than absolutely required. The property here is the franchise, the dilapidated house being Dravid and BCCI is the Govt.

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Am I on Hari's ignore mode - gibberish after gibberish and no answer to the question - even if icons were decided beforehand why did shrewd businessmen like Mallaya and Ambani buy Icon teams?
Never, never, never, ever...prof...No One...least of all you, would be on my ignore mode :--D

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The property here is the franchise, the dilapidated house being Dravid and BCCI is the Govt.
That's where you arer completely wrong. There were franchises on sale which did not have icon players but Mallaya and Ambani CHOSE to buy the ones with star value at much higher prices.

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That's where you arer completely wrong. There were franchises on sale which did not have icon players but Mallaya and Ambani CHOSE to buy the ones with star value at much higher prices.
Thats because of the bidding dynamics and also because the city franchises in those cities were what mattered to their business interests. Same way India cements bid for Chennai and Deccan chronicle for Hyd franchise.

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Thats because of the bidding dynamics and also because the city franchises in those cities were what mattered to their business interests. Same way India cements bid for Chennai and Deccan chronicle for Hyd franchise.
See you have you answer. Despite the presence of icon players, or rather partly because of their presence the franchises are more marketable in certain cities, thus a profit making exercise. Having Ganguly as your icon player in Calcutta or Tendulkar in Bombay is huge in terms of commercial interest and well worth the million bucks paid for them even if they don't score a single run. These shrewd businessmen realized it and happily put down the money.

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See you have you answer. Despite the presence of icon players' date=' or rather partly because of their presence the franchises are more marketable in certain cities, thus a profit making exercise. Having Ganguly as your icon player in Calcutta or Tendulkar in Bombay is huge in terms of commercial interest and well worth the million bucks paid for them even if they don't score a single run. These shrewd businessmen realized it and happily put down the money.[/quote'] This is what I've been saying all along. IPL is NOT just about cricket. There are many other things through which IPL has to market itself and make itself popular, then create a fan base. And then only it'll enter the ruthless world of all the franchises demanding victories only. That day is quite far from now and by then Sachin or Dravid or Ganguly might have stopped playing cricket.

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See you have you answer. Despite the presence of icon players' date=' or rather partly because of their presence the franchises are more marketable in certain cities, thus a profit making exercise. Having Ganguly as your icon player in Calcutta or Tendulkar in Bombay is huge in terms of commercial interest and well worth the million bucks paid for them even if they don't score a single run. These shrewd businessmen realized it and happily put down the money.[/quote'] No No..you got me wrong, when I referrd to city bases and these companies, I was referring to the fact that these companies are based from those cities, like Reliance in Mumbai, UB in Bangalore etc, It was not because Tendulkar is from Mumbai or Dravid is from Bangalore that these companies bid for the city franchises, but because these companies were from those cities.... ( Note : If any further proof is needed, just see Mallya talking about Dravid openly...if at all the Franchises thought that these Icons were the "star crowd pullers" for their city teams , this theory is out of the window...Mallya doesnt give a damn about Dravid being from Bangalore or anything, he just wants his team to win and he is openly saying his "icon" Dravid has screwed up bigtime and he sucks" )

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This is what I've been saying all along. IPL is NOT just about cricket. There are many other things through which IPL has to market itself and make itself popular, then create a fan base. And then only it'll enter the ruthless world of all the franchises demanding victories only. That day is quite far from now and by then Sachin or Dravid or Ganguly might have stopped playing cricket.
Chandan, Just see the ugly public spat in the BRC team where the owner Mallya has called Dravid being entrusted with team building as his biggest mistake and has squarely blamed him for BRC's dismal performance. Do you think Mallya will speak in such a tone about his "star" publicly if he and his company were dependent on Dravid's "star value" or for that matter his advertising potential ? NO. To Vijay Mallya his company and team representing his company is far more important than the locally based Dravid....and it appears as if he had the choice he would have gladly got rid of Dravid....all that he wanted was a T20 Bangalore franchise...and because Dravid was forced down his throat by BCCI he swallowed it, but now it is absolutely clear that Mallya would have happily gone for a Bangalore MINUS Dravid, rather than being forced to take Dravid for 3 million dollars plus. IPL franchises are NOT based on the local star / city concept alone...they are dependent on the Local company/city team / winning concept.....and as I had mentioned earlier in this thread...NO player in India has a city connect among the Icons EXCEPT Sourav Ganguly in Kolkatta....the local boy/city fan base theory hold no water.

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No No..you got me wrong, when I referrd to city bases and these companies, I was referring to the fact that these companies are based from those cities, like Reliance in Mumbai, UB in Bangalore etc, It was not because Tendulkar is from Mumbai or Dravid is from Bangalore that these companies bid for the city franchises, but because these companies were from those cities....
So what you are saying is that these companies shelled out tens of millions of dollars to buy franchises which might suck just for the reason that they are based out of the cities they are from? I'd give them a bit more business sense that that. True, their franchises would be more marketable in certain in certain geographies compared to others but most of these companies have enough presence throughout in India that they would not suffer losses just for the sake of it. And icon players are part of their success strategy. These are hugely popular cricketers who bring a lot of crowds in, and although a million bucks might sound a lot to pay for the T20 skills of Ganguly and Dravid, in the end its a tiny fraction of the cost on purchasing the franchise and they might not bring a lot in terms of cricket but will bring in the crowds making these franchises profitable. It's wrong to think of the million bucks as being paid to these icon players only for their cricketing skills.

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Why did Mallaya want only the Bangalore franchise? He could have easily taken Jaipur's for a substanially lower cost and no icon player. He wanted the draw of Dravid and Kumble on home ground and saw it as a good investment and happily shelled out the money. Everyone will complain and not be happy when the team does not do well. Mallaya has fired Charu Sharma. Why doesn't he go ahead and fire Dravid if he thinks his franchise can retain the same popularity without Dravid?

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Mallya bid for both Bangalore and Mumbai.
Which only underlines my point that he wanted star power to make the franchise popular and the million bucks e would shell out for an icon player would help in making the team popular be it Dravid or Tendulkar.

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