Woolmer complained about OTT Islam in team

[yoda]

Re: Woolmer complained about OTT Islam in team

Its not the fact about wether it helps the pak team to win or not. Its the whole morality of forcing people to pray, putting pressure on players to be more islamic and mullah like, pressure on others to convert etc etc. Mullah inzi was leading some kind of islamic fundie course in the pak team. Putting enormous pressure on others to tow the islamic/mullah/taliban line

They represent the Islamic Republic of Pakistan with a capital named Islamabad. What else do you expect?

[kumble_rocks]

Re: Woolmer complained about OTT Islam in team

The irony of all this is ' date=' they had better winning record during the late 80's and early 90's when they were least religious. I guess PCB recognizes this fact and wants to make a changes in the right direction. Malik is a good choice from this POV. No more fatso influence in the team. I hope he gets booted from test squad also.[/quote'] Well as late as the March-April 06 when PAK had defeated ENG, SL and IND this focus towards religion was named as one of the REASONS to team's success as it united the players.

So why don't the same religious cabal attribute this lack of focus during WC 2007 to religion ? Fair game ? That's why , religion should never be a factor in sports. This sh.it is true for all religions. If you win , you thank god, and if you suck , then what ? The same MOYO had an ordinary WC after doing so well before that and he had attributed his success to his new found faith.

[kumble_rocks]

Re: Woolmer complained about OTT Islam in team

umm that was 1993 so don't you think a person can change himself in 14 years? i know that i made a lot of mistakes in my teenage years but i have learnt from them and try not to make the same mistakes. In normal circumstances i think there is no better way to polish your personality and sway away from the negative things than to get closer to your religion(could be any religion).

Inzi and Mushy were adults and not teenagers back then for god's sake . And why should they try to impose their Tabliqhy beliefs on others like YK , Akhtar , Malik etc who are not that overtly religious. Plus you have a hindu in your team. Mr Mir himself has stated that the Tabliqhy influence on the team is quite glaring. And how do you know that religion is a positive thing. You are insulting atheists like GKD here ! :hic: :hic:

[MundaPakistani]

Re: Woolmer complained about OTT Islam in team

So why don't the same religious cabal attribute this lack of focus during WC 2007 to religion ? Fair game ? That's why , religion should never be a factor in sports. This sh.it is true for all religions. If you win , you thank god, and if you suck , then what ? The same MOYO had an ordinary WC after doing so well before that and he had attributed his success to his new found faith.

If it was something that started a month or 2 ago then you might have had a valid point but religion has been a major factor in the PAK team for the last 2 years, during that time they have won 4 test series(WI, ENG, SL and IND) and lost 2(ENG and SA). So it is quite clear that religion has NOT affected their performance in the last 2 years and considering the injuries and controversies the team performance had been acceptable so then why is it that as soon as PAKlose to Ireland religion is being blammed? Coming to your point about M yousuf i think we all will agree that he is a far better player than he was before converting to Islam. Now that might be because he is far more relaxed now or it could simply be that he has fixed some technical problems in his batting and has entered his prime, i personally

[MundaPakistani]

Re: Woolmer complained about OTT Islam in team

umm that was 1993 so don't you think a person can change himself in 14 years? i know that i made a lot of mistakes in my teenage years but i have learnt from them and try not to make the same mistakes. In normal circumstances i think there is no better way to polish your personality and sway away from the negative things than to get closer to your religion(could be any religion).

Inzi and Mushy were adults and not teenagers back then for god's sake . And why should they try to impose their Tabliqhy beliefs on others like YK , Akhtar , Malik etc who are not that overtly religious. Plus you have a hindu in your team. Mr Mir himself has stated that the Tabliqhy influence on the team is quite glaring. And how do you know that religion is a positive thing. You are insulting atheists like GKD here ! :hic: :hic:

No one was imposing anything, none of the players have complained that Inzi or any one else forced them to pray! This other notion about the bearded players being able to get in to the team is also TOTALLY incorrect because if that was the case then Asim Kamal would certainly have been in the team.

[kumble_rocks]

Re: Woolmer complained about OTT Islam in team

If it was something that started a month or 2 ago then you might have had a valid point but religion has been a major factor in the PAK team for the last 2 years, during that time they have won 4 test series(WI, ENG, SL and IND) and lost 2(ENG and SA). So it is quite clear that religion has NOT affected their performance in the last 2 years and considering the injuries and controversies the team performance had been acceptable so then why is it that as soon as PAKlose to Ireland religion is being blammed?

WHAT ??? If you remove non Tabliqhy guys namely Asif and Akhtar , you would lost the both the series played in Pakistan with England and India . It would have been 4 series loses. Admit it, religion did not play a factor in your 4 test series wins.

Coming to your point about M yousuf i think we all will agree that he is a far better player than he was before converting to Islam. Now that might be because he is far more relaxed now or it could simply be that he has fixed some technical problems in his batting and has entered his prime, i personally

I would agree that it is possible that MOYO is more relaxed now because of his new found faith Islam. But I don't believe that Moyo converted for inner peace. I think he had captaincy ambition which he felt would have been fulfilled only of he had converted. That's just my opinion and I have no way of proving it one way or the other. But , with PCB going in new direction , alas he failed in his mission. Me thinks he has entered his prime as batsmen and it has got nothing to do with religion.

[kumble_rocks]

Re: Woolmer complained about OTT Islam in team

No one was imposing anything, none of the players have complained that Inzi or any one else forced them to pray! This other notion about the bearded players being able to get in to the team is also TOTALLY incorrect because if that was the case then Asim Kamal would certainly have been in the team.

Do you really think players can complain in Pakistan. Heck , looks like the mullahs have already issued a Fatwa on Mr Mir according to BBC. Do you condone this kind of fatwa ?. And how do you explain the sudden increase in bearded players in the last two to three years. The Pakistan team of yesteryears hardly had any bearded players .That's not the case anymore with even players like Afridi becoming bearded for religious reasons.

[MundaPakistani]

Re: Woolmer complained about OTT Islam in team

WHAT ??? If you remove non Tabliqhy guys namely Asif and Akhtar , you would lost the both the series played in Pakistan with England and India . It would have been 4 series loses. Admit it, religion did not play a factor in your 4 test series wins.

Oh give me a break! Click Here and here! I am not saying that PAK was winning just because God was happy at them, my point is that last year the players like M Yousuf were performing exceptionally well yet religion was still a major part of their lives. So what people like PJ are saying would have made sense if last year Yousuf was a key member of a certain nightclub and now he had turned in to a hardcore Muslim!

I would agree that it is possible that MOYO is more relaxed now because of his new found faith Islam. But I don't believe that Moyo converted for inner peace. I think he had captaincy ambition which he felt would have been fulfilled only of he had converted. That's just my opinion and I have no way of proving it one way or the other. But , with PCB going in new direction , alas he failed in his mission. Me thinks he has entered his prime as batsmen and it has got nothing to do with religion.

If you genuinely believe that then you need to re-think because it was during Inzi's reign that Yousuf was ousted and YK was made the VC.

[MundaPakistani]

Re: Woolmer complained about OTT Islam in team

No one was imposing anything, none of the players have complained that Inzi or any one else forced them to pray! This other notion about the bearded players being able to get in to the team is also TOTALLY incorrect because if that was the case then Asim Kamal would certainly have been in the team.

Do you really think players can complain in Pakistan. Heck , looks like the mullahs have already issued a Fatwa on Mr Mir according to BBC. Do you condone this kind of fatwa ?. And how do you explain the sudden increase in bearded players in the last two to three years. The Pakistan team of yesteryears hardly had any bearded players .That's not the case anymore with even players like Afridi becoming bearded for religious reasons.

PJ Mir has been a media muppet all the way through, if you have followed the Bob Woolmer episode then i am sure you would see what i am talking! Secondly your comment about beards is also quite strange because in the current team there are only 3 members who have had a beard for the last year or so(Afridi, Inzi and Yousuf). BTW you didn't answer my question as to why the bearded Asim Kamal hasn't played for PAK in the last 18 months.

[King]

Re: Woolmer complained about OTT Islam in team It is stupid of Inzi and the rest of his religious band to have adulterated the sport with religion. I had made this point couple of years ago and I still do this. A lot of these folks are practicing religion for the sake of publicity for their religion. Why would anyone like to worship outside on a ground? It was a massive show off by the Pakistan cricket team. I'm happy there is someone like Mir that stands up and points out the obvious. These guys that practice the religions are the worst culprits. I think there should be no place for religion in sports and I'm glad for once that we don't have to hear some Koran verses every time a Pakistan captain speaks. From all these reports that come out every now and then about the bitching, moaning and back biting of the Pakistan players I wonder how religion is helping them sort out their differences? Shouldn't religions teach the way of leading selfless life? One of the first things that any religion teaches is to be truthful and not be selfish. Looks like these guys that practice the religion have more issues treating others well. No religion can cleanse a human when he himself can't fix his short comings. Religion in sports is a sacrilege and anyone that does it is only harming the great sport. More than anything it is just the cheap publicity that they seek in the name of religion.

[The Outsider]

Re: Woolmer complained about OTT Islam in team Why just sports? I think religion if practised should be an extremely private affair and not mingle with any profession. It becomes specially bizarre and bothersome when people who have achieved their success in one arena use that as a vehicle to promote completely different agendas. There is nothing wrong in keeping beards etc. as long as the rest is done privately. I wonder how much peace and closeness to God one gets anyway by praying on a cricket field in front of thousands of people?

[King]

Re: Woolmer complained about OTT Islam in team

Why just sports? I think religion if practised should be an extremely private affair and not mingle with any profession. It becomes specially bizarre and bothersome when people who have achieved their success in one arena use that as a vehicle to promote completely different agendas. There is nothing wrong in keeping beards etc. as long as the rest is done privately. I wonder how much peace and closeness to God one gets anyway by praying on a cricket field in front of thousands of people?

Yup agree with that completely. Unfortunately for religious leaders publicity for their respective religions is the only way ahead. Now if the religious leaders come out and say couple of words about their religion no one cares. When they use successful and famous men/women they have better audience. Pity these successful men/women gets sucked into the religious game. Isn't it pretty straight forward the famous ones are just a mere tool for spreading the religion and nothing more???

[kumble_rocks]

Re: Woolmer complained about OTT Islam in team

No one was imposing anything, none of the players have complained that Inzi or any one else forced them to pray! This other notion about the bearded players being able to get in to the team is also TOTALLY incorrect because if that was the case then Asim Kamal would certainly have been in the team.

Do you really think players can complain in Pakistan. Heck , looks like the mullahs have already issued a Fatwa on Mr Mir according to BBC. Do you condone this kind of fatwa ?. And how do you explain the sudden increase in bearded players in the last two to three years. The Pakistan team of yesteryears hardly had any bearded players .That's not the case anymore with even players like Afridi becoming bearded for religious reasons.

PJ Mir has been a media muppet all the way through, if you have followed the Bob Woolmer episode then i am sure you would see what i am talking! Secondly your comment about beards is also quite strange because in the current team there are only 3 members who have had a beard for the last year or so(Afridi, Inzi and Yousuf). BTW you didn't answer my question as to why the bearded Asim Kamal hasn't played for PAK in the last 18 months.

Pervez Mir may be a muppet , but so is Inzi. Worst still , he comes across as a religious fanatic. You still haven't answered my question about the fatwa issued against Mir. Do you condone it. Mir did not commit any sin by exposing Inzi and his goal to Talibanise the Pak team. Also, I don't know why Asim Kamal is playing . I can only guess. My guess would be that Pak Middle order of YK/Inzi / Moyo cannot be touched. Afridi and Razzaq as allrounders are more useful. Faisal Iqbal has the support of Miandad . Kamal as an average player would obviously find it difficult to get in Pak middle order inspite of Inzi's backing. Don't forget to include Rana and Bowling coach Mushy in the beard brigade. Can you tell me how many players in the 92 WC team which won the WC had beard ? I cannot think of a single player including Inzi and Mushy having beard at that time.

[Holysmoke]

Re: Woolmer complained about OTT Islam in team

No one was imposing anything, none of the players have complained that Inzi or any one else forced them to pray!

have a look at this video. I believe that is the manager of the pakistan team... http://www.cricketnext.com/videos/24822/pak-cricket-in-a-religious-muddle.html

[Gaurav]

Re: Woolmer complained about OTT Islam in team Brain washed fundoos

[beetle]

Re: Woolmer complained about OTT Islam in team MD...it's strange how meanings of words change on different sides of the border..... secular on your side is almost a galli and fundoo is something to be proud off... :shrug: It's hard to believe we were ever the same people.

[Sooda]

Re: Woolmer complained about OTT Islam in team >>I wonder how much peace and closeness to God one gets anyway by praying on a cricket field in front of thousands of people? Do tell us when that happend Shwetabh?? Fact remains that Pak were doing fine- more than fine in fact until recently, then England tour really when things went to pot. Whether that is inspite or because of their new found religious zeal I dont think any of can say... As for the bizarre allegations that MoYo converted because he wanted the captaincy, well thats ridiculous- he was vice captain as a christian so really was next in line- he did not need to convert. If anything he is further away from it after conversion than he was before. I have heard him speak in person ( along with Inzy and Afridi) and I can tell you that he is very much genuine. Its just that people who claim otherwise are too shallow/stupid to appreciate that. Afridi was a bit of a w@nker in the past but he actually said that his good form was due to the focus that religion had given him ( he was in good form at the time :) ). The same almost undoubtedly holds true for MoYo...

[King Tendulkar]

Re: Woolmer complained about OTT Islam in team How come people like sooda and MP cant see that putting pressure on players etc to praay and talibinase is simply not right. It says a lot about their mind set and people of their ilk :shrug: Lets be honest sooda and mp feel the OTT islam shown by the team etc is a good thing :shrug:

[beetle]

Re: Woolmer complained about OTT Islam in team Inzi and his bearded brigade had become the living advertisement for the TJ.More like the brand ambassadors.Hence the exibition of religion at every possible occasion even if it was in appropriate(like the praying incident in the plane) Sooda and MD fail to understand the kind of pressure the non religious kinds can feel from these Religious fundoos who think it is a mission to make everyone walk the path they have chosen. There have been reports of players being woken up at unearthly hrs to pray .....if that is not pressure then what is it? Do you think if the players wanted to relax in some other way than listening to surmons or the inzy chosen way...they had the freedom to do so. All of these add to the pressure on players.Besides how can anyone justify the pressence of TJ members everywhere?What is the need?if someone wants to meet them then they should be going to the TJ ...not the TJ almost living with the team.That is just another way of keeping the boyzz in line . Besides religion has always been used by people in Pakistan ...like zia . Inzy used the power of religion to keep control over the team.

[Sooda]

Re: Woolmer complained about OTT Islam in team Firstly we do not know how much 'pressure' players were put under. I have pointed out - if anything religion gave them focus to do better. Bob Woolmers coaching played a major role obviously In any case if the players were under that much pressure how come the Pak team were doing so well until basically the Eng tour i.e last September was it?...Beat India, England amongst others. Im not sure that the OTT Islam being shown is good. But as a Muslim praying is of paramount importance and if the players were being told- again im not sure how much they were 'forced'- to do so that can only be a good thing. As for Inzys 'dictatorial' role- well, its great how that (and the so called OTT religion etc) suddenly became a problem after the WC debacle- essentially ONE loss vs Ireland. Whilst Pak were winning and doing well- as they were for a while under Inzy- everything was fine and dandy...