Woolmer complained about OTT Islam in team

[King Tendulkar]

Re: Woolmer complained about OTT Islam in team No i have been complaining about the OTT islam in pak team for a number of years now! The look at me I am muslim attention seeeking acts. You still dont get it sooda. Its not about wether it effected the pak team performance or not. Its simply the morality of forcing/pressure to be more islamic. No doubt you think the more islamic the better. Feel for Kaneria to be surrounded by this mullah like pressure. No doubt the reason why he caved in and kept saying inshallah in post match interviews. He must be under enormous pressure to fit in by the mullahs!

[Dhondy]

Re: Woolmer complained about OTT Islam in team

If it was something that started a month or 2 ago then you might have had a valid point but religion has been a major factor in the PAK team for the last 2 years, during that time they have won 4 test series(WI, ENG, SL and IND) and lost 2(ENG and SA).

You also drew away against West Indies, which can be considered a failure by the yardstick of how other Test nations performed there.

[beetle]

Re: Woolmer complained about OTT Islam in team No body is blaming the loss to that....what people are pointing to is how things work in that team.And that this was coming .That someday someone was going to point to it and thiswould happen.Of course no one in or from pakistan would dare to point this out ....Mir fortunately has other places to live hence the courage. The fact that people have been forced to go the religious way is no secret...salman butt and akhtar have hinted to this before. And if you think the "captain reminding " people (adults)to pray is ok in your book and does not constitute pressure ...or that even such pressure is ok because your religion encourages that ..then i guess no point having this discussion.

[Gaurav]

Re: Woolmer complained about OTT Islam in team What I find encouraging is that some P@kis are willing to speak up against all this cr@p :wtg: MP is a religious zombie who does not know better so pardon him :hic:

[Dhondy]

Re: Woolmer complained about OTT Islam in team No need to call names, GKD. MP is a valued member here. I wouldn't have a problem with the Pakistani cricket team's religious leanings if the tenets of religion, i.e. virtue and integrity were reflected in their conduct. What really disappointed me was when the captain and administrators of this apparently pious team went out of their way to condone the drug abuse perpetrated by its two star players, and then resorted to a game of dodgeball to stop them from undergoing official tests that would have resulted in them being kicked out of the game for two years. This, coupled with their efforts to tamper with the pitch when nobody was looking, displays of petulance and abusive language by the captain himself on several occasions, rampant nepotism practiced by the skipper in getting his friend on to the coaching staff when he had no right to be there, physical abuse of the now departed coach by certain individuals, makes you wonder what religion exactly are they practicing? Does religion connote just invoking God's name on every available opportunity? Does it not include practicing Godliness?

[King Tendulkar]

Re: Woolmer complained about OTT Islam in team GKD calling MP a religious zombie is hardly calling names. In fact MP would be proud of this and no doubt agree. As for him being a valued poster that is your opinion. For me his ridiculous defence of anything islamic even the most distasteful things is IMO insane and worrying.

[Anakin]

Re: Woolmer complained about OTT Islam in team So typical thinking of the future heaven dwellers. But of course I'll stop, otherwise it'll be yet another "attack" on the most peaceful religion and may be the sensitive ones will not visit anymore

[The Outsider]

Re: Woolmer complained about OTT Islam in team

Do tell us when that happend Shwetabh??

Sooda I am pretty sure I saw some clip where the team was praying on the field. I guess it was prior to the start of some match.

Whether that is inspite or because of their new found religious zeal I dont think any of can say...

As far as I am concerned its not even relevant. I feel religion should be kept a private affair. If someone's performance improves because of it I have no issues with him practising it privately. However, putting pressure on peers(I know you are going to deny pressure was put but many reports suggest otherwise for eg. there was a report where some players were woken up for the morning namaz. I would hate to hear someone knocking at 5 on the morning of a match, if I dont care about his namaz), an overt display of the faith etc. are irksome. Also, I have not been in favour of these religious overtones even when Pakistan team were winning. I remember during the 2005 Ind-Pak series I saw a photograph somewhere with the entire Pakistan team offering namaz and Kaneria and Woolmer standing in the background on the practice pitch. Tell me how would you feel if you were one of these three, involved in practice and someone told you to hold on with the session for 20 minutes while you complete your prayers. The Pakistani players were also talking to PCB about not holding matches during the entire month of Ramazan. None of the squads from yesteryears did that. If Ramazan fell at a certain time of they year every year, it might still be a possibility but how can the entire calendar be shifted every year to accomodate for different times Ramazan falls. Even after all this if they had become good human beings one might be tempted to give them the benefit of the doubt. But right from cheating to coverups to abusing they have been guilty of all conceivable transgressions in the past couple of years. So what have they learned from religion?

[Anakin]

Re: Woolmer complained about OTT Islam in team There have been reports of wives of other players avoiding YoYo's wife at parties and gatherings, not seeking his advice even when he was the VC. I'm sure these were not signs of pressure, rather the wholehearted acceptance of his religion

[King Tendulkar]

Re: Woolmer complained about OTT Islam in team Spot on. Reports from back to the days when waquar and akram played and their wives shunning yoyos wife. Not sitting on same table as her etc

[Gaurav]

Re: Woolmer complained about OTT Islam in team Just got off the bus and was reminded of this thread as a lady in full hijab was reading the Quran and her mumbling was clearly audible. Looks like P@ki team is having a bad effect on people from non-cricket playing nations :lmao: So much advertising and drama I tell you from these heaven ke landlords :wall:

[The Outsider]

Re: Woolmer complained about OTT Islam in team Latest from Mushtaq Ahmed, in addition to the delusion that he wants to become the coach: http://www.nation.com.pk/daily/may-2007/3/sports1.php

LONDON - Pakistan cricket team's former leg spinner Mushtaq Ahmed may become a new coach as troublesome Pakistan team waits for a new coach. Although Mushtaq might appear the natural choice given that Woolmer nominated him assistant coach for the ICC Champions Trophy and the World Cup, such a move would represent a remarkable U-turn by the Pakistan Cricket Board. In 2000, the judge at Mushtaq's match-fixing inquiry recommended that he should never be offered an official position in the game. Woolmer persuaded the PCB to back down saying he had leadership skills which overrode past peccadilloes. Bob Woolmer was hoping to groom a successor to take over after the World Cup. He believed that a former player, albeit one who'd fallen out of favour despite inspiring Sussex to the first championship titles in their history, was the best option. Mushtaq is enthusiastic about his chances of landing the job. In an interview with a British newspaper, Mushtaq said: "I'd love to serve my country. I'm a good coach because I care about players. I look after them when they have a bad day. "He said that they don't come any worse than that Sunday in March when he had the job of telling the players in the Pegasus Hotel the news of Woolmer's death. "We were all in tears. I told them they had to get strong." Reluctant though he is to discuss tragic events - "it's counter-productive" - Mushtaq says he is 200 per cent certain none of the Pakistan players were involved. "People are right to ask questions but you don't kill your father." Mushtaq was irritated by reports that Jamaican police interviewed the Pakistan all-rounder Shahid Afridi twice: "Completely wrong. Afridi and I spent only 20-25 minutes helping the police with their inquiries. Everyone else had at least an hour. The Koran says you should not speak ill of a man without knowing the facts." The Western media has reported that the radicalisation of the Pakistan squad has raised eyebrows inside and outside the PCB. Board members expressed concern that performances were suffering as the balance between professional duty and religious fervour was lost. Woolmer had also remarked on a worrying change in emphasis. Pakistan's World Cup defeats to West Indies then Ireland suggested a team with other things on their mind. Mushtaq disagrees but acknowledges that the squad have become more fundamental in the last two years. "We all read the Holy Quran and pray five times every day. My prayer starts at 4.30 am. Most of the team have grown beards without moustaches in honour of the prophets." Even Inzamam has one now. The lack of moustache, he explained, is for hygiene reasons. How hygienic is a long beard then? "We wash it in clean water every day." It says a lot for Woolmer's patience that he was able to adjust to increasingly ritualistic behaviour and private whispers in a foreign tongue, while also getting as much as he did out of a moody group of cricketers with enough chips on their shoulders to open a fast food chain. There were long periods when Inzi himself was unapproachable. It'll be interesting to see what Pakistan do next.

[Anakin]

Re: Woolmer complained about OTT Islam in team In a beard-off for the coach position mushy is certainly a good contender, and could easily win, being another fundoo is just bonus.

[The Outsider]

Re: Woolmer complained about OTT Islam in team There are all kinds of Muslims in the world and also in Pakistan, the overtly religious ones and the ones not so. There is nothing fundamental about cricket as a sport to attract only a certain subsection of them. To think that the entire team of a country becomes so overtly religious in a matter of a couple of years without any pressure is naive.

[Anakin]

Re: Woolmer complained about OTT Islam in team Sunny said something about the rowdy and DRUNK pak supporters in 99 WC IIRC which drew strong criticism from PCB and guess the reason: they are muslims and so they don't drink

[King Tendulkar]

Re: Woolmer complained about OTT Islam in team

There are all kinds of Muslims in the world and also in Pakistan' date=' the overtly religious ones and the ones not so. There is nothing fundamental about cricket as a sport to attract only a certain subsection of them. To think that the entire team of a country becomes so overtly religious in a matter of a couple of years without any pressure is naive.[/quote'] They are merley following the trend worldwide of muslims and in pak land. That is becoming fundamental and taliban like! The pressure to be more islamic is in islamic society in general now. Pak land being no exception!

[MundaPakistani]

Re: Woolmer complained about OTT Islam in team

No body is blaming the loss to that....what people are pointing to is how things work in that team.And that this was coming .That someday someone was going to point to it and thiswould happen.Of course no one in or from pakistan would dare to point this out ....Mir fortunately has other places to live hence the courage. The fact that people have been forced to go the religious way is no secret...salman butt and akhtar have hinted to this before. And if you think the "captain reminding " people (adults)to pray is ok in your book and does not constitute pressure ...or that even such pressure is ok because your religion encourages that ..then i guess no point having this discussion.

Oh are you kidding me? the whole issue has come up because PAK lost to Ireland and some people like PJ feel that the team focused on religion instead of cricket! No i don't think it's ok to force any one to pray but i have read and seen a lot of the interviews of the PAK players(even after Inzi resigned as the captain) and none of them have ever complained that they were forced to pray!

[MundaPakistani]

Re: Woolmer complained about OTT Islam in team

It is stupid of Inzi and the rest of his religious band to have adulterated the sport with religion. I had made this point couple of years ago and I still do this. A lot of these folks are practicing religion for the sake of publicity for their religion. Why would anyone like to worship outside on a ground? It was a massive show off by the Pakistan cricket team. I'm happy there is someone like Mir that stands up and points out the obvious. These guys that practice the religions are the worst culprits. I think there should be no place for religion in sports and I'm glad for once that we don't have to hear some Koran verses every time a Pakistan captain speaks. .

Ravi, Well what's one of the main pillars of Islam? Namaz! It's an obligation that all Muslims just pray 5 times a day and it's encouraged that they should pray TOGETHER. So i don't see anything wrong with the fact that during a practice session the team decided to pray in the open field.

No one was imposing anything, none of the players have complained that Inzi or any one else forced them to pray!

have a look at this video. I believe that is the manager of the pakistan team... http://www.cricketnext.com/videos/24822/pak-cricket-in-a-religious-muddle.html

No, that?s not the manager, that?s our PJ sahib! The manager Talat Ali hasn?t said anything about the players being forced to pray.

Pervez Mir may be a muppet , but so is Inzi. Worst still , he comes across as a religious fanatic. You still haven't answered my question about the fatwa issued against Mir. Do you condone it. Mir did not commit any sin by exposing Inzi and his goal to Talibanise the Pak team. Also, I don't know why Asim Kamal is playing . I can only guess. My guess would be that Pak Middle order of YK/Inzi / Moyo cannot be touched. Afridi and Razzaq as allrounders are more useful. Faisal Iqbal has the support of Miandad . Kamal as an average player would obviously find it difficult to get in Pak middle order inspite of Inzi's backing. .

Yes I agree with everyone should have the freedom of speech including PJ Mir but what i was saying is that he is been making irresponsible statements all the way through the tour and this just seems to be another one. It?s quite clear that none of the players(including S Akhtar) have ever complained that they have been forced to pray or are forced to have beards. Secondly your point about Asim Kamal is quite strange because you are saying that F iqbal is in the team because of J Miandad?is this the same J Miandad who has blasted Bob and Inzi at every given opportunity? Oh and BTW S Afridi was dropped for the ODI and test series vs the WI even then A Kamal was not able to enter the SQUAD.

Don't forget to include Rana and Bowling coach Mushy in the beard brigade. Can you tell me how many players in the 92 WC team which won the WC had beard ? I cannot think of a single player including Inzi and Mushy having beard at that time. .

?and what?s that suppose to mean? It?s a known fact that most of the PAK players up until 2001were not strong muslims.

[beetle]

Re: Woolmer complained about OTT Islam in team >>> It’s quite clear that none of the players(including S Akhtar) have ever complained that they have been forced to pray or are forced to have beards. >>>And risk a life threatening fatwa.....

[MundaPakistani]

Re: Woolmer complained about OTT Islam in team

There are all kinds of Muslims in the world and also in Pakistan' date=' the overtly religious ones and the ones not so. There is nothing fundamental about cricket as a sport to attract only a certain subsection of them. To think that the entire team of a country becomes so overtly religious in a matter of a couple of years without any pressure is naive.[/quote'] It was S Anwar's daughter's death that caused him to be overtly religious and while in the team he started this trend. It was S Anwar's daughter's death that caused him to be overtly religious and while in the team he started this trend. There are certain aspects where i do agree with you guys e.g the fact that in each and every interview Inzi or Yousuf bring up God, they talk less about the stratgey and the way they are looking to improve their game. I don't think people would mind an InsAllah here or there but Inzi and Yousuf do a bit too much.