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Has India gone backwards compared to 90s???


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We are now half way through 2007 and although the comparison between decades sounds vague it can still be used as a yardstick. Since 2000 or how many world class batters has India produced in comparison to the 90s? Don't tell me Raina, he hasn't done much when the ball's done a bit. Kaif is not even in the team anymore. Yuvraj made his debut sometime in 1999 and although he is a fantastic talent he hasn't really lived up to the hype as yet. 8 years is a lot of time and Yuvraj has barely managed to do much in the much tested test arena. Dinesh Mongia has been out of the team so consistently he isn't even in the contest. I've seen the likes of Rainas, Chopras, Jaffers, Uthappas, Gambhirs come and go in quick time. The last batsman that is worth his salt in international cricket has been Virender Sehwag. If I have missed out any, kindly do mention as I'm not able to think of any other names. Now look back to 90s. By 1997 India had players of caliber of Saurav Ganguly, Rahul Dravid, Ajay Jadeja, Robin Singh, Srinath, Mongia and Anil Kumble to name a few as permanent members of the team. VVS Laxman was just beginning to show case his skills as well. All these were products of the decade 90s. 90s had a dearth of good bowlers and in particular the fast bowlers. No wonder they couldn't win as many test matches as they would have liked overseas. Now we are into 2007 but haven't unearthed a world class spinners, batters or even bowlers. Zaheer, Nehra, Pathan, Sreesanth, Munaf have had their good days and that truly is heart warming but the lack of any good talent in spin and fast bowling department is very concerning. Dhoni looks a good find albeit his lack of show in crucial games but surely he is not worse than Mongia. The premier spinner for India still is Anil Kumble. Harbhajan has just been sacked rightly as his form since few years has been pretty insipid. Indian team still is falling upon the players from 90s to shoulder all the responsibility. Somewhere along the line something must have gone wrong with the Indian cricket set up otherwise why is there such a dearth in producing good batting and spinning talents. In fact cricket has grown in India since 90s and there surely must be more players at the grass root and domestic level playing cricket in this decade compared to the last one. Why in that case is there lack of decent talents in the Indian team? This must point to us something really. India has now better coaching facilities, lot more responsible cricket board (I would like to think so) and some cricketing legends involved in selection and other important processes. Despite all this there is a sure lack of talents coming through. Do the new generation players want everything easy and not want to work hard for it? Do they really lack that mental strength that was there among their peers or the past cricketers? Certainly there must be reasons. I'm unable to name many to be honest. Logically with the kind of structure and exposure Indian cricket now has I would have expected India to churn away talents. In reality the nucleus of Indian cricket is still the stars from the 90s. Anyone has any answers to this one?

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Re: Has India gone backwards compared to 90s??? To me. the answer is that we were getting true world class spinners in 90s because of the kind of pitches we had : dustbowls as they're referred to in the media. The same spinners just couldn't deliver abroad when confronted with unfavourable conditions. Batsmen atleast had their basic techniques brushed up in domestic cricket because dustbowls are not flat tracks where you can get away with any shot. But somewhere in this decade the thought was that we must have international class pitches which should help the pace bowling too. In that process, by the end of 2001, several pitches were relaid with the help of a Kiwi curator. But instead of getting better, the Wankhede track was wrecked totally with the bounce gone and all that. So that was one plan having gone haywire! And now these pitches are neither helping the spinners, nor pace bowlers and are producing FTBs with no basic techniques! Secondly, in many of the metroes, the bigger schools have hardly any time for cricket. This game must be about 7th or 8th in their list. So kids from better families, who get better nutrition are not coming in the game. The poorer lots are still interested in it and they are the guys with weak physique and all. ( this is not my theory but I've read this research in a magazine). Thirdly board: There is not a single point where I can think of the board doing better now than what it was doing say 6 years back. In fact Pawar regime is three times worse than that of Dalmiya. Ever since this fellow was made the BCCI President, board has been doing everything to earn more money, starting those neutral spot ODIs meaninglessly even when they were stopped due to a very valid reason, dismantling the spin clinic which Ganguly and Wright had worked hard on and such things. So there is no doubt that Indian cricket is going down and it'll go down futher because I can't see any attempts from any quarter to arrest this slide!

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Re: Has India gone backwards compared to 90s??? In the same breath if you look at Sri Lankan set up it is no good either. Every now and then the Sri Lankan board is dissolved and is about 10 times worse shape than India. The less said about Sri Lankan pitches the better. Despite all this they are still producing decent talents. I'm amazed to see them throw up players like Chamara Silva, Tharanga, Malinga, Bandara et al They may not be the best but they don't seem too bad do they? Pakistan, India and West Indies have produced some of the worst FTBs since 2000s. No wonder these three countries are the worst hit among the rest. England is not far behind but they still have hope with having guys like Cook, Strauss, KP and the likes. If you take away the good old seniors from the Indian team the batting looks way too weak.

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Re: Has India gone backwards compared to 90s???

To me. the answer is that we were getting true world class spinners in 90s because of the kind of pitches we had : dustbowls as they're referred to in the media. The same spinners just couldn't deliver abroad when confronted with unfavourable conditions. Batsmen atleast had their basic techniques brushed up in domestic cricket because dustbowls are not flat tracks where you can get away with any shot. But somewhere in this decade the thought was that we must have international class pitches which should help the pace bowling too.
In the 90s I remember India had spinners in Raju, Rajesh Chauan, Sunil Joshi mostly other than Anil Kumble. Raju was quite a decent spinner but India lacked the fast bowlers. The only one that could match up bowlers overseas was Srinath. Prasad had couple or three good series overseas. I have to say India has produced some really good fast bowlers though. Perhaps because of the relaid pitches do you think? Balaji, Nehra, Zaheer, Sreesanth, Munaf, Pathan (when he was in good bowling form) are not really bad. I have had a look at Chawla and he uses googlies as stock ball while his leggie doesn't turn much. Nothing wrong with that as long as he can maintain line and length. The times I've seen him, he hasn't look like an out of the world talent or anything but he could improve over the time.
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Re: Has India gone backwards compared to 90s??? Chawla is still just 19. so I think we should give him some time to adjust and then go for developing the variations. I must confess that when I saw him in 2005 Challengers, he had me completely mesmerised/hypnotised. Even Sree had looked superb with his outswingers. But those were the just the first few deliveries. You expect them to develop few variations but I think they are too pressurised once they become successful in their first few matches and don't get time to work on them. I'm sure if enough time and space is allotted to them, they'll improve by leaps and bounds especially under the right guidance! It is only the lack of quality batsmen which worries me.

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Re: Has India gone backwards compared to 90s??? Problem is aging seniors who refuse to retire and mediocre/non-peformers who get long runs to prove their mediocrity. When you keep recycling garbage like Dinesh Mongia over and over again (and even when we bring him back, don't even give him a full run) and just "rest" 51 SR batsmen, how exactly are we going to pick our best 15?

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Re: Has India gone backwards compared to 90s???

At least name the 15 players you find fit to represent the country. Then we'll discuss how we can get them selected!
What does fit to represent the country mean? And how do we, some of who are living outside the country, start discussing in a meaningful way all the players who are eligible without having watched them play FC or in India 'A' tours? That's what the selectors are there for. From those I have seen, YV Rao sure deserves a spot in the test team and NOT the ODI team. He could replace atleast one over-the-hill batsman that I know of. And I am sure there are many like him across the country.
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Re: Has India gone backwards compared to 90s???

Problem is aging seniors who refuse to retire and mediocre/non-peformers who get long runs to prove their mediocrity. When you keep recycling garbage like Dinesh Mongia over and over again (and even when we bring him back' date=' don't even give him a full run) and just "rest" 51 SR batsmen, how exactly are we going to pick our best 15?[/quote'] This is what you wrote, isn't it? You think Venu would have performed better than Sachin Saurav and VVS in SA in those bowler friendly conditions against those top class pacers? If you think so, I'll say you have no idea whatsoever of cricket.
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Re: Has India gone backwards compared to 90s???

This is what you wrote, isn't it? You think Venu would have performed better than Sachin Saurav and VVS in SA in those bowler friendly conditions against those top class pacers? If you think so, I'll say you have no idea whatsoever of cricket.
Ok, you think there is no need to drop these players who keep failing repeatedly and there is absolutely no point in trying any new talent. Glad that even our retarded selectors don't think that way. Looks like you watch the game for some reason other than to see the team winning.
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Re: Has India gone backwards compared to 90s??? backwardz, not really.. we reached some great heights after 2000. we performed better in Aus too... won some classic odiz starting with natwest series.. entered wc final.. got better wicket keeper batsman then Nayan Mongia.. who was okay, but not that good...defeated pak in pak.. agree bowlers haven't lived upto expectation after 2000.. but then we had same prblm in the team in late 90z also.. we had time when mohanty, harvinder singh were coming in an out, that guy kuruvila too.. no regular bowler there was.. fielding got better then before surely...

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Re: Has India gone backwards compared to 90s??? Hell no. Believe me, i watched a lot of Indian cricket in the 90's. Although the batting talent was much better back then, IND had the better TEAM in this decade. Back in the 90's, it was all Tendulkar. If he scored, IND would have a chance, otherwise they would lose. In bowling there is no difference; i'd actually contend that the bowlers India have today are better than the crop of the 90's. IND have far more depth in bowling now than ever before. Hark back to the days of Mohanty, Ganesh and Harvinder and you will see what i mean ! Although in the '90's, the team won lots of ODI tournaments under Azhar whereas under Ganguly and Dravid, the team hardly won anything. Make of that what you will.

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Re: Has India gone backwards compared to 90s??? As far as batting is concerned, the Indian selectors have not given a chance to truly deserving players in the XI. Players like Rao and Badrinath have performed consistently for years now and have developed maturity. They need to be drafted into the test side. Remember how Tendulkar was thrown in front of Pakistan, Amre in fron of South Africa, Ganguly and Dravid in front of England, all in alien conditions and they all performed. These soft debuts against the likes of BD or in ODIs are not going to offer any metric on the player's ability or temperament.

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Re: Has India gone backwards compared to 90s??? IMHO, cricket has changed because there is 1 more dimension added in the game. Its external to the field itself but it is a way by which player prepare themselves to perform in the middle. Laptops, Video technology etc etc. Aus is using such things extensively and they have mastered it. So even before the game starts, they know all the weaknesses of every single player out there. Now all they need to do is act on a plan given to them with perfection. They get those players out consistently in a similar manner. It is more psychological advantage they have over others. Even bowling variation of a particular bowler of opposition can be analyzed and then batsmen knows how they want to shape up their game. So even if 1 or 2 fail to adjust, chances are others manage to play by that strategy and succeed. Or else how do you justify them (Aussies) scoring so many runs successfully in every ODIs?? This technique is not developed so much with other nations.

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Re: Has India gone backwards compared to 90s???

Hell no. Believe me, i watched a lot of Indian cricket in the 90's. Although the batting talent was much better back then, IND had the better TEAM in this decade. Back in the 90's, it was all Tendulkar. If he scored, IND would have a chance, otherwise they would lose. In bowling there is no difference; i'd actually contend that the bowlers India have today are better than the crop of the 90's. IND have far more depth in bowling now than ever before. Hark back to the days of Mohanty, Ganesh and Harvinder and you will see what i mean ! Although in the '90's, the team won lots of ODI tournaments under Azhar whereas under Ganguly and Dravid, the team hardly won anything. Make of that what you will.
But Ravi's point was, why no exceptional talent is coming through be it batsman, seamer or spinner! I can say that Munaf and Sree might not be exceptional but they are good. In the other two departments, our cupboard is bare!
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