Quasimodo's thread on other board i.e pp

[Guest dada_rocks]

Re: Quasimodo's thread on other board i.e pp

Man this is terrible, just saw the other video that says people can convert to Islam but anyone coverting from Islam to other religions carry a death penalty That is something unbelievable. More and more we see such claims in the religion I start to sympathize for the ones that are following this religion :shrug: World will be a better place when everyone just sticks to common sense and follow a religion called "humanity". These religions must be shafted right away and should be locked away for ever stopping the future generations from following it IMO. Someone in the video in the end has posed right questions such as "Will they appreciate killing of converts to islam at the hands of their non-muslims countrymen by giving the lame excuse of treason as well?"

MInd your ravi bhai the person concerned here is nto some fringe loony element he is mainstream pide piper of believers celberated everywhere as authority on islam. Similar views being supported by equally important Maulana this time from across the border. http://youtube.com/watch?v=EsTpL1iDc1I So you can say with some degree of confidence that this is widely held belief.

[Dhondy]

Re: Quasimodo's thread on other board i.e pp I feel the next thousand years of human existence is going to be defined by the struggle betwen Islam and the West. Ravi's post just highlights some of the perceptions of Islam held in the West, perpetuated by minorities such as the man in the video. I think MIG will be the first to admit that Islam has a problem. While it commands deep devotion from its followers, it also attracts a band of fanatics who interpret the religion to suit their own violent, divisive, and often hegemonistic proclivities. It's these people who scare the living daylights out of the West. I have a deep rooted apprehension, born of intuition, that this struggle between Islam and the Occident has passed its point of no return. You only have to go through any issue of "Time" to see the fear, the anxiety and the almost pathological mistrust that Islam arouses in Caucasians. One native British man, whose brother had just converted to Islam, asked him, "You are not going to kill me in my sleep, are you?" It epitomizes what we are about to experience in the rest of our lifetime and for many years beyond. A titanic struggle between one faith and the rest of the world, with tragic consequences, loss of lives, and social upheavals. And I fear, even further polarization of Muslims all over the world, the more impressionable of whom will turn on their host countries in the West and cause an implosion of sorts, that will make 9/11 or 7/9 look like a picnic in the park.

[Guest dada_rocks]

Re: Quasimodo's thread on other board i.e pp

Ravi's post just highlights some of the perceptions of Islam held in the West, perpetuated by minorities such as the man in the video.

This is the baseless claim given the person involved is viewed not only as authorty by majority but enjoys a start like status and I am yet to see any of that proverbial majority calling thsi guy loony for preaching BS like this. Au-=contaraire he is hailed everywhere from india to pakistan to britain to australia to canada to moroccos.

I think MIG will be the first to admit that Islam has a problem. While it commands deep devotion from its followers, it also attracts a band of fanatics who interpret the religion to suit their own violent, divisive, and often hegemonistic proclivities. It's these people who scare the living daylights out of the West.

I think this is your personal relationship with the individual concerned at whatever level speaking not the reason. From his posts even in this thread all I heard is myriad hues of evasive tactics employed. A person with integrity doesn't evade questions like this. And these are not fringe fanatic element these are mainstream maulana who get invited everywhere to give lecture on matter of faith just like pope and get standing ovation from the believers crowd.

You only have to go through any issue of "Time" to see the fear, the anxiety and the almost pathological mistrust that Islam arouses in Caucasians.

Why won't that be given the popes like figures in islam preach the kind of bull crap visible in that clip and not a murmur is heard from those socalled proverbial but in my view imaginary moderates. My conviction comes from the deafening silence I hear over matters like this.

One native British man, whose brother had just converted to Islam, asked him, "You are not going to kill me in my sleep, are you?"

Mind you he is not just making it up he has reasosns to believe what he does. There certainly are verses to that effect.

And I fear, even further polarization of Muslims all over the world, the more impressionable of whom will turn on their host countries in the West and cause an implosion of sorts, that will make 9/11 or 7/9 look like a picnic in the park.

Good observation but there is no other way. You call anyone's bluff they get more arrogant . Nobody lilkes to be told heor she is clinging to some antiquated belief which has no place in civilised society and yet someone has to do this work because alternative to this option has far bigger consequences.

[Rajiv]

Re: Quasimodo's thread on other board i.e pp Just saw tghe video Worst analogy I have ever seen So, do people take this joker seriously There's one thing for sure, he was very weak in Math

[King]

Re: Quasimodo's thread on other board i.e pp

I feel the next thousand years of human existence is going to be defined by the struggle betwen Islam and the West. Ravi's post just highlights some of the perceptions of Islam held in the West, perpetuated by minorities such as the man in the video. I think MIG will be the first to admit that Islam has a problem. While it commands deep devotion from its followers, it also attracts a band of fanatics who interpret the religion to suit their own violent, divisive, and often hegemonistic proclivities. It's these people who scare the living daylights out of the West. I have a deep rooted apprehension, born of intuition, that this struggle between Islam and the Occident has passed its point of no return. You only have to go through any issue of "Time" to see the fear, the anxiety and the almost pathological mistrust that Islam arouses in Caucasians. One native British man, whose brother had just converted to Islam, asked him, "You are not going to kill me in my sleep, are you?" It epitomizes what we are about to experience in the rest of our lifetime and for many years beyond. A titanic struggle between one faith and the rest of the world, with tragic consequences, loss of lives, and social upheavals. And I fear, even further polarization of Muslims all over the world, the more impressionable of whom will turn on their host countries in the West and cause an implosion of sorts, that will make 9/11 or 7/9 look like a picnic in the park.

Your thoughts are very insightful Dhondy, a good post despite exposing the uncomfortable but true threats that are looming right now and for the future. As Dhondy pointed out certain individuals are causing irreparable damage to their religion by promoting their idiotic views. I will personally look at highly religious Muslims tentatively (not saying they will be violent but I reckon they will be blinded by religious beliefs) and would avoid conversations with regards to religion. That is simply because they will be adamant and will not accept the short falls in their religion. I read the religion bars anyone from changing the practices and it needs to be followed as it is. Quite naturally the religious Muslims will not warm up to refinement required in their religion. I think if someone tries it he will be punished (bit ignorant on this fact as I read it over the internet). I can now recall some years ago (I was in my late teens) an African Muslim started to talk a bit about Islam (marketing his religion to me as I now gather) while we were waiting to give a driving test and I quite couldn't understand why he was talking about religion to me then??? :shrug: After having recalled the above incidence I now feel Inzi and his mates mention the prayers more to market the religion than for the feel good factor. I would definitely like to know from Muslims on this board if they get asked by their priests to market their religion or is it encouraged formally in the holy book to promote religion when you can?

[kumble_rocks]

Re: Quasimodo's thread on other board i.e pp

I feel the next thousand years of human existence is going to be defined by the struggle betwen Islam and the West. Ravi's post just highlights some of the perceptions of Islam held in the West, perpetuated by minorities such as the man in the video. I think MIG will be the first to admit that Islam has a problem. While it commands deep devotion from its followers, it also attracts a band of fanatics who interpret the religion to suit their own violent, divisive, and often hegemonistic proclivities. It's these people who scare the living daylights out of the West. I have a deep rooted apprehension, born of intuition, that this struggle between Islam and the Occident has passed its point of no return. You only have to go through any issue of "Time" to see the fear, the anxiety and the almost pathological mistrust that Islam arouses in Caucasians. One native British man, whose brother had just converted to Islam, asked him, "You are not going to kill me in my sleep, are you?" It epitomizes what we are about to experience in the rest of our lifetime and for many years beyond. A titanic struggle between one faith and the rest of the world, with tragic consequences, loss of lives, and social upheavals. And I fear, even further polarization of Muslims all over the world, the more impressionable of whom will turn on their host countries in the West and cause an implosion of sorts, that will make 9/11 or 7/9 look like a picnic in the park.

This is a great post , Dhondy. Even my thought process is more aligned with the contents this post. Only problem, I can't translate it into words like they way you did here.

[Anakin]

Re: Quasimodo's thread on other board i.e pp

I would definitely like to know from Muslims on this board if they get asked by their priests to market their religion or is it encouraged formally in the holy book to promote religion when you can?

I don't remember direct command in Koran for conversion into islam. But imo, it's not really necessary. Since Koran pretty much declares every kafir is doomed, and Koran is the only way to heaven, anyone with an ounce of greed for heaven and fantasy of being compassionate will try to convert a doomed person so that the kafir is saved and he/she might get some credit for heaven. There was a monkey who out of compassion for a fish swooped it up from the river so that it doesn't drown.

[beetle]

Re: Quasimodo's thread on other board i.e pp Ravi...the African guy was just trying to book a ticket to heaven.....

[quasimodo]

Re: Quasimodo's thread on other board i.e pp

I feel the next thousand years of human existence is going to be defined by the struggle betwen Islam and the West. Ravi's post just highlights some of the perceptions of Islam held in the West, perpetuated by minorities such as the man in the video. I think MIG will be the first to admit that Islam has a problem. While it commands deep devotion from its followers, it also attracts a band of fanatics who interpret the religion to suit their own violent, divisive, and often hegemonistic proclivities. It's these people who scare the living daylights out of the West. I have a deep rooted apprehension, born of intuition, that this struggle between Islam and the Occident has passed its point of no return. You only have to go through any issue of "Time" to see the fear, the anxiety and the almost pathological mistrust that Islam arouses in Caucasians. One native British man, whose brother had just converted to Islam, asked him, "You are not going to kill me in my sleep, are you?" It epitomizes what we are about to experience in the rest of our lifetime and for many years beyond. A titanic struggle between one faith and the rest of the world, with tragic consequences, loss of lives, and social upheavals. And I fear, even further polarization of Muslims all over the world, the more impressionable of whom will turn on their host countries in the West and cause an implosion of sorts, that will make 9/11 or 7/9 look like a picnic in the park.

I am not a scholar of Islam so my views on above are of no value. All I know is that any religion is open to abuse by its followers. Islam was revealed in Arabia where conditions for Muslims were nothing short of life threatening. Most of the verses quoted by people around the world ( esp non Muslims or those who have a bone to pick ) are taken out of context. The same verses are also used by some "so called" Muslims to justify the deaths of innocents. Personally, I feel that there are better qualified people and forums to argue the merits of a great religion such as Islam - I will not demean my religion here and certainly not change my views towards something I and a billion others hold dear, based on a post by someone called Dada Rocks !! If that is beating around the bush - so be it - you guys can do your usual anti Muslim/Pakistani Bhangra here - doesnt bother me. And finally, I am getting a little tired of these little anti Muslim/Pakistani jibes that you make on this forum - You can now understand why you are banned from quality forums like PP and why its the goodness in the hearts of people like Dhondy, Salil and Shwetabh that lets you post here.

[Anakin]

Re: Quasimodo's thread on other board i.e pp

I am not a scholar of Islam so my views on above are of no value. All I know is that any religion is open to abuse by its followers. Islam was revealed in Arabia where conditions for Muslims were nothing short of life threatening. Most of the verses quoted by people around the world ( esp non Muslims or those who have a bone to pick ) are taken out of context. The same verses are also used by some "so called" Muslims to justify the deaths of innocents. Personally, I feel that there are better qualified people and forums to argue the merits of a great religion such as Islam - I will not demean my religion here and certainly not change my views towards something I and a billion others hold dear, based on a post by someone called Dada Rocks !! If that is beating around the bush - so be it - you guys can do your usual anti Muslim/Pakistani Bhangra here - doesnt bother me. And finally, I am getting a little tired of these little anti Muslim/Pakistani jibes that you make on this forum - You can now understand why you are banned from quality forums like PP and why its the goodness in the hearts of people like Dhondy, Salil and Shwetabh that lets you post here.

====>>>> Hmmmmmm may be you shouldn't post rubbish yourself if you can't defend it. It's damn funny too when you accuse people, spending their whole lives studying koran, of abusing religion when you yourself are not an expert. "quality forums like PP"? Are you trying to teach us the word "oxymoron"? Thanks but already knew the word.

[Dhondy]

Re: Quasimodo's thread on other board i.e pp Guys, if we are going to have a debate on religion, it's important not to get personal. Otherwise, the debate will come to a shuddering end. As ever, let's concentrate on issues rather than personalties. Carrying on from the theme of Islam versus the West, it is fair to say that Muslims wish to see their faith as the most practiced in the world. There's a burning desire to be understood, to be recognized, and if we are brutally honest, to prevail. Can they get there? I think not. I think they are using the wrong approach. For reasons, think back to the greatest human tragedy that ever affected mankind. And then think of the greatest regeneration of a race that you can ever hope to see. Hundreds of thousands of Jews were massacred in the holocaust. Entire families were wiped out, and surviving children lost their parents. The economic success of a generation was reduced to rubble. Yet, barely 60 years later, they are the most influential community in the most powerful nation in the world. How did they achieve this? By spreading their religion? By telling others that theirs was the only true faith? No, because they had already survived one villification of Zionism and knew that religion was the last thing they needed to wear on their sleeve. Instead, they went about educating their children, working harder than ever, immigrating to the countries that offered them the best odds of success, and by quietly integrating into the social fabric of their new homes. They used their grief and fury at what had happened to them to burn the midnight lamp, and strengthen their resolve to never let history repeat itself, to never let their community be so vulnerable again. And yet, the Jews are an extremely religious, well knit community. They would live and die by their faith if asked to. Barely a generation later, they are the champions of America, and tiny Israel bestrides the middle East like a colossus, thanks to the benefaction of its expatriates in high places. There is a lesson in there somewhere for Islam, and indeed for other faiths that seek to be recognized. Religion will not buy you power. It will divide, it will antagonize, it will repel, but it will not ingratiate, nor win you friends or favours.

[yoda]

Re: Quasimodo's thread on other board i.e pp @the doc

[quasimodo]

Re: Quasimodo's thread on other board i.e pp

Guys, if we are going to have a debate on religion, it's important not to get personal. Otherwise, the debate will come to a shuddering end. As ever, let's concentrate on issues rather than personalties. Carrying on from the theme of Islam versus the West, it is fair to say that Muslims wish to see their faith as the most practiced in the world. There's a burning desire to be understood, to be recognized, and if we are brutally honest, to prevail. Can they get there? I think not. I think they are using the wrong approach. For reasons, think back to the greatest human tragedy that ever affected mankind. And then think of the greatest regeneration of a race that you can ever hope to see. Hundreds of thousands of Jews were massacred in the holocaust. Entire families were wiped out, and surviving children lost their parents. The economic success of a generation was reduced to rubble. Yet, barely 60 years later, they are the most influential community in the most powerful nation in the world. How did they achieve this? By spreading their religion? By telling others that theirs was the only true faith? No, because they had already survived one villification of Zionism and knew that religion was the last thing they needed to wear on their sleeve. Instead, they went about educating their children, working harder than ever, immigrating to the countries that offered them the best odds of success, and by quietly integrating into the social fabric of their new homes. They used their grief and fury at what had happened to them to burn the midnight lamp, and strengthen their resolve to never let history repeat itself, to never let their community be so vulnerable again. And yet, the Jews are an extremely religious, well knit community. They would live and die by their faith if asked to. Barely a generation later, they are the champions of America, and tiny Israel bestrides the middle East like a colossus, thanks to the benefaction of its expatriates in high places. There is a lesson in there somewhere for Islam, and indeed for other faiths that seek to be recognized. Religion will not buy you power. It will divide, it will antagonize, it will repel, but it will not ingratiate, nor win you friends or favours.

Excellent post Dr. Sahib. But I dont agree with

Instead, they went about educating their children, working harder than ever, immigrating to the countries that offered them the best odds of success, and by quietly integrating into the social fabric of their new homes.

If you look at NY Jewish community - you will see ultra jewish types who dont really intergate with society in that way. The Jewish community has been blessed with some forward thinkers and MONEY !! But I agree on the whole that Muslims need to reform themselves and look at their own backyard before trying to fix their neighbours lawn ! However, when I see naked prejudice against Muslims as displayed by some members here, there is a reaction - feels like being stuck in an Hindu-Muslim riot in Mumbai !

[Anakin]

Re: Quasimodo's thread on other board i.e pp Where more hindus were butchered?

[Bumper]

Re: Quasimodo's thread on other board i.e pp Fantastic post Dhondy. Jews are the best examples, the world could try & emulate. This is not the first time Jews have raised themselves from the rubble. 600 years before the holocaust took place, Jews came to Europe with nothing. Within a few hundred years, they flourished into one of the most dominant societies of Europe. Jews very much remind me of Parsis in India. These guys came with nothing & within a few decades have flourished into one of the richest communities in India. Truly there are lessons to be learnt from the way these minority groups have elevated themselves into a position of indomitable strength.

[Dhondy]

Re: Quasimodo's thread on other board i.e pp MIG, I believe the answer lies in the way a moderate country like Jordan goes about its business. Quietly, unobtrusively, without funfair, focussed on economy rather than theology, and with a fusion of the best bits that the West has to offer with their intrinsic traditional values. Does the rest of the Islamic world look down on Jordan?

[quasimodo]

Re: Quasimodo's thread on other board i.e pp

MIG, I believe the answer lies in the way a moderate country like Jordan goes about its business. Quietly, unobtrusively, without funfair, focussed on economy rather than theology, and with a fusion of the best bits that the West has to offer with their intrinsic traditional values. Does the rest of the Islamic world look down on Jordan?

No we dont look down on Jordan. Jordan is a curious example - I dont think they are doing as well as Malaysia which has a very devout Muslim population.

[Dhondy]

Re: Quasimodo's thread on other board i.e pp Perhaps I thought of them because they live right in the middle of the Arab world, and yet are so different from the others. I have never ever seen Jordan make any bellicose noises. Always conciliatory, always friendly.

[kumble_rocks]

Re: Quasimodo's thread on other board i.e pp

Also In Kerala ... you will still find a the Banai (sp ?) Jews ... One of the most Purest Jews that you can ever find and supposedly the descendents of Moses .... they have been there since about 2nd Century ... No other country offers such priviliges to minorities than we do.

Bheembhai , it is Bene Israel . Most of them have migrated back to Israel from Mumbai and Western India. Also, Cochin Jews or Malabar Jews have also migrated back in huge numbers. And they are also some of the earliest jews to came to India.

[Anakin]

Re: Quasimodo's thread on other board i.e pp I don't get it, why would you follow the cursed people?