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Taj Mahal needs your vote to retain Seven Wonder status


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Re: Taj Mahal needs your vote to retain Seven Wonder status Lurker, not sure you have heard of the Vijaynagar empire.... Literature, art, poetry flourished under that empire.... Same in Chandragupta period.... The bible of politics was released in that time by Chanakya..... Same in Ashoka period.... he built the concept of rest houses for travellers, promoted vegetarianism, ruled from egypt to thailand, did wildlife protection, built universities, new irrigation systems, water transits and most of all, no discrimination on caste and religion......

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Re: Taj Mahal needs your vote to retain Seven Wonder status I am not that thrilled to have the Taj as the best known "wonder" from India. Reasons are various, some of which can be construed as anti-muslim, which is probably true, but I can't help it in this case: 1. It represents the brutality of the Moghul empire 2. There are several other Hindu temples country over which are architecturally as good or even better That said, I am glad that there is atleast one structure of India which is known world over.

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Re: Taj Mahal needs your vote to retain Seven Wonder status

U could not be more ill informed.. Go to google and look for tariff for tajmahal it will tell u where did it come from. Talkign of GDP in those days it used to be counted in terms of gold/jewel.precius stones. . this was precisely the decadent culture. what can u do with those. europeans were investing their resources in scientiic innovation while thugs in india were busy erecting tajamahal and listening to mujara wearing those precious jewels... All those things are indian heritage and if ur insinuation are why didn;t we erect taj like structure on those places well that's precisely I am opposed to; there are more earnest places where resources need to go and thankfully they are going. And yes India was jewel in the crown because such a vast fertile country used to give them enough revenues, it doesn't mean india was rich. British at lats for the sake of exploitation did somethign unlike muslim rulers who were happy with their jewel crowns and mujra festival erecting monuments like taj while rank and file were in precarious state. I would make one exception for that GT road fame ruler shershah suri..
I am not quite sure if I received any meaningful critique there. Unless you beleive calling someone ill-informed is positive criticism that is. Now this is what you should do. Give me some substantial criticism. Tell me why you are singling out Muslim rulers. Maybe you can enlighten with what Hindu ruler have gifted to Indians as a legacy apart from making temples in every place possible? And what exactly Hindus have done to preserve their history(as also those of other religion). I shall await your response, maybe you can hold onto name-calling as well? xxx
well problme is what I consider bad u are parading as good: I say leeching public money to raise monuments instead of investing them in science and technology or for that matetr infrastructure is the way to do. You claimed tajmahal expense came from heaven . i suggested u to check on google where actualy ti came from. I am sure u didn;t do it. This is why i called u ill-informed. Looking for hindu science and technology well start with arabic numerlas it has everything to do with hindu science and nothing to do with arab other than claiming their own.. YEs other thing i mentioned was qutub minar in this thread well go have a look about the metullrgical advancement this symbolizes even today mettalurgical deptt is at loss and searching for the answer . Just to name a few. After 100o years of ruination period it's hard to find remnants of hindu past. een for qutub minar islmic thugs tried their best to erase the traces of hindu orgin could not succeed. Wipign out traces of others civilization was their favourtie pastime, library/university burning was at the forfront be is taxila or vikramshila. So sorry i can't provide u traces from that glorious but destryed past. BUt u want to have glimpse of what it was just read ayurveda for instance u will get the drift. I am against erecting meaningless monuments ( will make an exception if ti has some engineering value) then and I am now. I am singling out islmaist because except them noone specialized in destoryign taces of others culture belief sicience technology.. Just answer one question what the hell a marauder gets by burning Universities. India ws attacked by many invaders many colonized it but noone indulges in this knd of activity. There is not even a single church at the sight of temple saga but there are more than lakh of mosque at the sight of temple saga .
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Guest dada_rocks

Re: Taj Mahal needs your vote to retain Seven Wonder status

Lurker, not sure you have heard of the Vijaynagar empire.... Literature, art, poetry flourished under that empire.... Same in Chandragupta period.... The bible of politics was released in that time by Chanakya..... Same in Ashoka period.... he built the concept of rest houses for travellers, promoted vegetarianism, ruled from egypt to thailand, did wildlife protection, built universities, new irrigation systems, water transits and most of all, no discrimination on caste and religion......
Not to mention science and technology blody socaleld qutub minar whihc has nothing to do with qutub unless u consider an attempt to destroy as contribution is work of mettulrgical master-piece
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Guest dada_rocks

Re: Taj Mahal needs your vote to retain Seven Wonder status

I am not that thrilled to have the Taj as the best known "wonder" from India. Reasons are various, some of which can be construed as anti-muslim, which is probably true, but I can't help it in this case: 1. It represents the brutality of the Moghul empire 2. There are several other Hindu temples country over which are architecturally as good or even better That said, I am glad that there is atleast one structure of India which is known world over.
Particualrly the meenakshi temple.. way better grand and huge structure than taj stands in mroe or less every big city courtesy Birala group and yes it's in pure white limestone too.. Taj got famous due to erroenous love story attached to it whihc has not even an iota of truth. shahjehan was anythign but romantic lovelorn guy people like to portray him he as a war monger second only to his son aurnagjeb..
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Re: Taj Mahal needs your vote to retain Seven Wonder status

Lurker, not sure you have heard of the Vijaynagar empire.... Literature, art, poetry flourished under that empire.... Same in Chandragupta period.... The bible of politics was released in that time by Chanakya..... Same in Ashoka period.... he built the concept of rest houses for travellers, promoted vegetarianism, ruled from egypt to thailand, did wildlife protection, built universities, new irrigation systems, water transits and most of all, no discrimination on caste and religion......
Actually I do Gator. You mentioned Chandragupta and Ashoka. Two great rulers who occupy important place in our history. However you should visit the places where they actually ruled and see the ruins to judge what I am saying. Be it the ruins of Patna(Patrilputra). Magadha(Gaya and Bodh Gaya region), Rajgriha, Nalanda etc. They are all in one state only Bihar and what can be developed as a super tourist attraction for Hindus and Buddhists lies just like that, ruins. So much so that today Indians would much rather visit ruins at Pompeii than part of their own history. Same story with Benaras, Utkal(Orrissa) and any other part. Which was my assertion, we are indifferent and apathetic to our history.
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Re: Taj Mahal needs your vote to retain Seven Wonder status

Lurker, not sure you have heard of the Vijaynagar empire.... Literature, art, poetry flourished under that empire.... Same in Chandragupta period.... The bible of politics was released in that time by Chanakya..... Same in Ashoka period.... he built the concept of rest houses for travellers, promoted vegetarianism, ruled from egypt to thailand, did wildlife protection, built universities, new irrigation systems, water transits and most of all, no discrimination on caste and religion......
Actually I do Gator. You mentioned Chandragupta and Ashoka. Two great rulers who occupy important place in our history. However you should visit the places where they actually ruled and see the ruins to judge what I am saying. Be it the ruins of Patna(Patrilputra). Magadha(Gaya and Bodh Gaya region), Rajgriha, Nalanda etc. They are all in one state only Bihar and what can be developed as a super tourist attraction for Hindus and Buddhists lies just like that, ruins. So much so that today Indians would much rather visit ruins at Pompeii than part of their own history. Same story with Benaras, Utkal(Orrissa) and any other part. Which was my assertion, we are indifferent and apathetic to our history.
You are missing the point marauders came afterwards for thousand years had their fun with aything which was stamp of their predecessors. Then came british further leeched the resources. Yes in last fifity years we hae not turned some new page but we are talking about billion mouth to feed here.. It takes time.. How this inefficiency should mean tha we must have sympathetic view about those thousand years of ruination period and dare i say Taj mahal does signify that. Had sahjehan erected a new university at the site of let us taxila or even nalanda even muslim university I woudl have considered that some achievement but mausleum whether by converting a temple or from scratch while rank and file is near starvation well doesn't impress me. Shahjehan's GT road is well aprreciated even today, this guy was exception too bad he didn't last for more than a deacde. British too leeched resources worth approx 13 trillion dollar but in a bid to stramline the leeching process they did monumental infrastructural dveelopment be it post-system,or train-network or myriad schools and colleges..
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Re: Taj Mahal needs your vote to retain Seven Wonder status Lurker, mt point will kinda echo DR's last post.... our great hindu rulers created universities, irrigation systems, architectural marvels, water ways, art, literature and various other things.... think how much could have been destroyed by 700 yrs of foreign rule, both by muslims and british..... our 50 yrs of independence is not even a shade on the amount of time spent on destroying or twisting the past.... it takes a while for us to find our feet and definitely tourism is the last thing we need to worry about as a young country.... terrorism and poverty take precedence....

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Re: Taj Mahal needs your vote to retain Seven Wonder status

well problme is what I consider bad u are parading as good: I say leeching public money to raise monuments instead of investing them in science and technology or for that matetr infrastructure is the way to do. You claimed tajmahal expense came from heaven . i suggested u to check on google where actualy ti came from. I am sure u didn;t do it. This is why i called u ill-informed.
I am quite convinced now that you excel in rhetorics. I claimed Taj Mahal was built on expense from heaven!! Care to show me where? And then you follow it up with searching on google. As if that would give me answers. With all due respect do you not have faith in your own argument that you are sending me to google? Leeching money to raise monuments instead of Scienece and Technology. Hmmm sounds good. So show me some Kings who have done that please. The good old temples built by Hindu rulers(the name of Maharani Ahilya Bai Holkar of Indore comes to mind immediately) were built by working in the fields of her kingdom or the revenue taxed from her subjects??
Looking for hindu science and technology well start with arabic numerlas it has everything to do with hindu science and nothing to do with arab other than claiming their own..
What has that got to do with anything? You want to showcase your knowledge of Hindu Sciece and Technology? Here is a deal. Start a thread and we will both see who excels in that. But dont drag objects into discussion when there is no need to? I do not quite understand where did this Hindu advancement in Science and Technology came from? Can you point me to where I had mentioned it, even fleetingly?
After 100o years of ruination period it's hard to find remnants of hindu past. een for qutub minar islmic thugs tried their best to erase the traces of hindu orgin could not succeed.Wipign out traces of others civilization was their favourtie pastime, library/university burning was at the forfront be is taxila or vikramshila. So sorry i can't provide u traces from that glorious but destryed past. BUt u want to have glimpse of what it was just read ayurveda for instance u will get the drift.
Redundant. We are not talking of Ayurveda, Yoga and Shunya here, we are talking of monuments. You mentioned Islamic invaders. Can you point me which Islamic invader went all the way to North Bihar please? You seem to be from that area. Care to tell me a little bit about Sitamarhi(arguably where Sita was born), or Vaishali(first republic of the world)? Can you point me to a few monuments about India(or even Hinduism) that is known outside that area and is in good shape? Or travel south to Nalanda and Rajgriha and Bodh Gaya and tell me if India has taken care of its heritage.
I am against erecting meaningless monuments ( will make an exception if ti has some engineering value) then and I am now.
So why do you worry if before Taj there was a Hindu temple there somewhere? Does it mean that you shall make exception not only for Engineering but also religious reasons?
I am singling out islmaist because except them noone specialized in destoryign taces of others culture belief sicience technology.. Just answer one question what the hell a marauder gets by burning Universities. India ws attacked by many invaders many colonized it but noone indulges in this knd of activity. There is not even a single church at the sight of temple saga but there are more than lakh of mosque at the sight of temple saga .
Again tons of rhetorics there. You are trying to put me in a spot of defending Islamic raids when actually there is no need. Islamic rule in India is part of our history whether you like it or not. There is no need to start a mosque-church-burning university debate in Taj Mahal discussion. Sorry I refuse to take the bait, you want to discuss it you would have to open another thread for that. xxx
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Re: Taj Mahal needs your vote to retain Seven Wonder status The problem with India is precisely this - we have very little respect for our monuments simply because we have all this 'invaders' and ' people were starving while monuments were built' kinda nonsensical perspective. You certainly wont see the French refusing to honor the Versailles simply because it was built at a time when France was going hungry. You wont see the Brits disparaging the tower of London, despite it being the place where people routinely got butchered. It doesnt matter how rich or poor people were when the Taj was built, what matters is that it is a stunning piece of work, easily superior to the Khajuraho complex ( i've seen them both, i think i am qualified to judge that) and one of the best architectural masterpieces ever. That alone is reason enough to honor it.

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Re: Taj Mahal needs your vote to retain Seven Wonder status CC.... how old is france and england as an independent country and we are only 60 yrs old.... try to beautify and make varanasi, bodhgaya, and all the other places gorgeous and prime tourist locations within the first 60 yrs is difficult wen u realise tht u got independence and u got so many people and all ur wealth has been stripped by 700 yrs of foreigners.... but tht should in no way, make u guys think tht indians on the whole dont value their history like Lurker pointed out... Awareness is jus coming.... I, personally, read only vedic stuff by indian authors.... THe foreigners twisted it.... but many still read it and are misled... but the changes are happening slowly...

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Re: Taj Mahal needs your vote to retain Seven Wonder status

The problem with India is precisely this - we have very little respect for our monuments simply because we have all this 'invaders' and ' people were starving while monuments were built' kinda nonsensical perspective.
Not true. We all have respect for DIFFERENT monuments. To you the Taj is big, to few others it is the Khajuraho to some others it might be the Madurai Meenakshi temple.
You certainly wont see the French refusing to honor the Versailles simply because it was built at a time when France was going hungry. You wont see the Brits disparaging the tower of London, despite it being the place where people routinely got butchered.
Some might. Have you polled them all or been on a french website discussing these issues?
It doesnt matter how rich or poor people were when the Taj was built, what matters is that it is a stunning piece of work, easily superior to the Khajuraho complex ( i've seen them both, i think i am qualified to judge that) and one of the best architectural masterpieces ever. That alone is reason enough to honor it.
We all have opinions. And the Khajuraho is not the only alternative to the Taj. And don't tell me you have seen every monument/temple in India.
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Re: Taj Mahal needs your vote to retain Seven Wonder status

but tht should in no way, make u guys think tht indians on the whole dont value their history like Lurker pointed out... Awareness is jus coming.... I, personally, read only vedic stuff by indian authors.... THe foreigners twisted it.... but many still read it and are misled... but the changes are happening slowly...
Gator, Let me ask you a question. You obviously are a cricket fan and an educated one at that. Now tell me this. If you wanted to read about Indian cricketers of say 1940's what would you do? Can you tell me that you can walk to a cricket bookshop and pick books by Vijay Merchant or a Vinoo Mankad? Answer is NO. Its not that there is not a market. I mean come on what is more popular in India than cricket? So how is it that even if you manage to find a cricket store book in the country(don't know where you will find it but still), what are the odds of finding a book by Prasanna or a Gupte? I have searched far and wide in Bombay and came out empty handed more often than nots. The answer was always the same, "Koi likhta nahin koi parhta nahin". Of course I would always see books about Dennis Compton, Jack Hobbs, Arthur Mailey you name it but you would be hard pressed to find a book about Ck Nayadu. If you are still not convinced think about this. How do Aussies view their cricketing history and how do we view ours? Every Aussie is proud of his baggy cap. Dean Jones was told by Border that he would be playing at #3,the place where the likes of Bradman and Chappells played. Do you think a Ganguly would take a VVS into a corner and tell him about Vishy,Umrigar and the likes? Well atleast I dont think so. And if you are still still not convinced, think of what Sehwag answered when he was asked about how he felt being so close to the record for 1st wicket of Vinoo Mankad and Pankaj Roy? The response - "Who were they"? xxx
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Re: Taj Mahal needs your vote to retain Seven Wonder status

i for one most definately think that the Taj is a deserving inclusion because of its masterpiece in architectural finesse. The Taj isnt a scientific marvel (though its proportionalities are pretty huge for its day and age) but rather a marvel of art- rarely have such finesse been displayed in sculpting, embossing, inlaying, etc. and even more rare are preserved specimens as fine as the Taj. It is also worth mentioning that the Mughals ushured in an era of cultural prosperity under Akbar that was maintained till Shah Jahan. Aurangzeb ruined that but India's ills cannot be blamed carte blanche on the Mughals. A lot of the scientific mentality was lost under previous Turkish muslim invasions and infact Akbar revived the sciences and culture considerably- ofcourse, Akbar's hard work was undone later and even then his work was just a drop in the bucket but IMO, too often are we to judge Indian history in 'black and white', lumping all the 'muslim rulers' of the north into one and the non-muslim ones into another. I dont care who built the Taj but its a masterpiece in architecture and it'll get my vote.
Khajuraho temple is bigger master piece and work of art ditto for meenkashi temple.. other than this and that stone from this and that place at an exorbitant cost it has nothing going for it.. I would love to know the scientific forays of akbar .. blank statments doesn't impress anyone
Oh my days. What a quote! That is the most ironic thing i have ever heard. :lmao:
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Guest dada_rocks

Re: Taj Mahal needs your vote to retain Seven Wonder status

Oh my days. What a quote! That is the most ironic thing i have ever heard.
Bhai it'a rational talk forum if u have to pass off these smilies as logical rejpinder then i guess u are in wrong place.. CC: Yes art is subjective and there are thousand more structures betetr than taj in my opinion. moreover I am not in favour of including monuments whose value can be gauged only in subjective terms in the list of wonders.. Wonders means something beyond belief. Yes I have not seen every monumen but icertainly have seen many along wiht tajmahal it;s just a islamic style mauslaeum made with precious stones. Heck in my view even under islamic art smarakand boasts of some marvellous structure whihc can make tajmahal blush . Again baloney noone ever talks about Grand trunk road in disparaging terms noone ever talks about st stefean and st this and that series of schools in disparaging terms.. first of all these mosques temples mausaleums don;t get much billing in my view and then there are these monuments raiased after demolishing other existing monuments and this fact seals their fate.. Islamic raid are part of history but there is no need to blody celebrate those raids.. I wonder these clowns ruled for 100 years how come I don't find even a single sheet of higher learning. They have demolished quitea few one of them equivelnt to today's stanfrod in nalanda how about starting few. Yes I am still waiting for the scientific forays of Akbar the great.. Lurker: Bakhtiyar Khilji ka naam suna hai bandhu, if not then google might help.
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Re: Taj Mahal needs your vote to retain Seven Wonder status

Lurker: Bakhtiyar Khilji ka naam suna hai bandhu, if not then google might help.
Hmmm so ab aapko Bakhtiyaar Khilji ki yaad aa gayi? Jaanab aapse seedha sawaal tha, which Islamic raider went all the way to North Bihar? And what exactly did he dismantle? I beleive you are from that area and so any roshni in this regard would be greatly appreciated. By the way I see you tend to throw around some names. If you really knew something about them you might think twice. For example Akbar. Do you realize that he had asked for the translation of Mahabharta? And do you know that he had put his best man, Abul Fazal, the one who wrote Ain-e-Akbari(naam to suna hi hoga) in charge of that translation? In case you would have bothered, you would actually find a copy of that Persian translation of Mahabharta in Khudabaksh Library Patna. Then again...... xxxx
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Re: Taj Mahal needs your vote to retain Seven Wonder status

Islamic raid are part of history but there is no need to blody celebrate those raids.. I wonder these clowns ruled for 100 years how come I don't find even a single sheet of higher learning. They have demolished quitea few one of them equivelnt to today's stanfrod in nalanda how about starting few. Yes I am still waiting for the scientific forays of Akbar the great.
Its not a question of raids by the likes of Muhammad of Ghor or Ghauri. I am not asking to celebrate those. However, just why exactly are you dissing Akbar ? if anything, he showed almost similar tolerance as most hindu rulers - he also patronised art and according to history, collected the great minds in his court to spark a cultural and economic revival. Besides, contribution doesnt just end or begin with sciences. What really matters is culture, arts, etc etc. Dont forget that sicence ultimately exists to serve culture and arts and suppliment human existance. And i dont need to tell you that the cultural contribution of several islamic rulers were quite prodigious. Not every single one of them were bloodthirsty butchers or savages. In your view, the GT road or a university deserves more acclaim and there in itself lies the problem with the indian mentality and why Indian culture is growing hollower and hollower - we are too quick to worship science and disregard arts- ignorant behaviour, considering that our ancestors knew the importance of arts and culture. You are ignoring the biggest lesson our culture teaches : Good and bad doesnt really exist and always rises in pairs. You choose to ignore the contribution of the islamic influence to indian culture- from ghazals, poetry, arts, cuisine etc. Instead, you choose to focus only on the negatives (and i grant you, negetives are more pronounced in this case than positives) but saddest of all, you are looking this in pure and simple 'good vs bad' blanket terms, where 'anything islamic = bad, anything hindu/original subcontinental = good'. I for one, do think that our indegenous culture was at a superior level but that doesnt mean we should be disparaging of the cultural contributions of the islamic rulers - as few and far between as it was.
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Re: Taj Mahal needs your vote to retain Seven Wonder status why u justifying them, CC???... who the fack asked them to come here.... they have to live with tht.... those facks are still fighting for palisteen inspite of tht being the jewish land in the first place and wouldnt give up on anything....

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Guest dada_rocks

Re: Taj Mahal needs your vote to retain Seven Wonder status

d_r, Do you know how many of the advancements and developments in Maths, Technology and Science were down to Arab Muslims, say about 1200+ years ago?
Once again arabs were not at the forefront at all it were central asiana and persians..Yes they had power money so all these lumnaries flocked to Iraq for instance but it doesn't make them arabic. Moreover the tradition of innovation was already in place in places like zorashtrian persia and central asia if anything islam slowed down the progressin a bid to conquer it. later on spirit of those indigeneous people again kicked in. People like Khaiyaam and many more greats were under constant pressure for their free thinking and accusations of apostacy kufra used to be pasted. Khaiyaam in particular had this to say abotu idea of God and it never went down well with intilerant maulanas. Poor guy under threat was forced to take Haz journey to underline his islamic character.. these folsk were never accepted as part of the culture were always on the run.. it might sound paradoxical ? to the climate of tolerance, to show that Islamic culture wasn?t always so monolithic and so on, that there were periods when people spoke up and defended their rights to question and to doubt. In my view that was ineetia of its non-islamic past. Today's islam has turned into monolyth there is no tradition of free thinking and hence the apalling state.. Claiming these free thinkers achievemnt who faced the brunt of mainstream maulanas all their life for thinking freely as some kidn of islamic achievement will be tanatamount to trumpeting Salman Rushdie's Midnight Children as islamic literature. BTW my question was what islamic rulers have established in name of sheet of education in INdia in 1000 years and u broached up arabic science topic.It has nothing to do with India. I will renw the question again point me a sheet of learnigng set up by these rulers during 1000 years of their rule.
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