Vegetarians?

[King]

Re: Vegetarians? I'm not a complete vegetarian but to say a Vegetarian has nothing positive to gain is way off the mark just because you think eating meat is fine?????

Absolute vegitarianism is pretty dumb in my opinion. If i am starving, i got nothing to eat and a gun, well some animal is gonna die and go in my stomach. Or if my old mother is starving and i need to kill the cow outdoors, well its a dead cow then. If anyone offers food out of the kindness of their heart or even just with good intent and hospitality, i dont think it would be very good to refuse it.

All that you have defined is hypothetical and if you are going to live life in Antarctica. I don't think the vegetarians choose their path on these hypothetical lines. It is silly to think you can be a shooter out of blue but can't find food from plants and trees. There is not even one in a million chances of your above examples coming true. People choose to become Vegetarians because of the vegetarian food that is available around them not because of any other strange reason.

Instead, refusing it would only hurt the feelings of someone else even if mildly. Nothing positive- but something negetive.

Does that mean you should practice something to please others and not yourself? That is the lamest excuse you will ever come across to take up meat. I suggest if you cannot appreciate why people choose such a path then don't call them dumb. What would you as a meat eater know why they choose that path in the very first place? I think there is equal number of vegetarians to meat eaters and they all have very strong reason for it.

[CC1981]

Re: Vegetarians?

I'm not a complete vegetarian but to say a Vegetarian has nothing positive to gain is way off the mark just because you think eating meat is fine?????

No, i am not saying vegetarianism has nothing positive to gain- i think it has a whole lot of positives and overall is superior to meat-heavy diets. I just dont think it loses its positivity if applied absolutistly.

All that you have defined is hypothetical and if you are going to live life in Antarctica. I don't think the vegetarians choose their path on these hypothetical lines. It is silly to think you can be a shooter out of blue but can't find food from plants and trees.

a) I live in Antarctica. Well, atleast something thats relatively close northern approximation of it ( aka, Canada :wtg: ) b) Try getting into the woods of the rocky mountains or the Canadian shield/interior BC forests and tell me if you are 'stuck' there, how many plants you can find to eat and survive for long.

There is not even one in a million chances of your above examples coming true.

Just a real-life example of 'one of my examples' comming true - My good friend just recently graduated from her music degree and her boyfriend(also a very close friend of mine) cooked an exquisite roasted lamb ribs greek style. Me and a few others were invited too and i was offered food there - the lamb ribs with rice.

Does that mean you should practice something to please others and not yourself?

No, it means when sticking to an ideal serves nothing but your ego but also serves as a rejection to someone's goodwill, its not worth it.

That is the lamest excuse you will ever come across to take up meat.

You just called Siddhartha Gautama a 'lamer'. Way to go, mate!

What would you as a meat eater know why they choose that path in the very first place?

What i, as a meat eater, would know is the same i, as a former brahmin would know.

[King]

Re: Vegetarians?

a) I live in Antarctica. Well, atleast something thats relatively close northern approximation of it ( aka, Canada )

:hic:

b) Try getting into the woods of the rocky mountains or the Canadian shield/interior BC forests and tell me if you are 'stuck' there, how many plants you can find to eat and survive for long.

How many would like to practice Veggie food and do the above???

No, it means when sticking to an ideal serves nothing but your ego but also serves as a rejection to someone's goodwill, its not worth it.

Food and ego, there's no connection IMO. A particular type of food practice is not ego, it is called habit. I know of a Kiwi lady that has never eaten meat despite the rest of her family (her parents and sibblings, now her husband and kids). She ever refuses it politely (she is mostly appreciated for it) and I know her closely enough to say she doesn't say that because to nurse her ego but that's what she prefers. It's like some blokes never prefer anything other than a beer, nothing ego about it just the practice.

You just called Siddhartha Gautama a 'lamer'. Way to go, mate!

Didn't know Siddhartha Gautama took to meat to not disappoint someone's offer to feed him meat??? Where did you learn this from?

What i, as a meat eater, would know is the same i, as a former brahmin would know.

Guess what I a former meat eater now am going the other way. Wouldn't I know there is nothing exciting in meat eating that isn't in Veggie food? :wtg:

[CC1981]

Re: Vegetarians?

How many would like to practice Veggie food and do the above???

Many. I know many people, some who are vegitarian (and some who are vegan - ie, no milk even) who are regular campers/hikers.

It's like some blokes never prefer anything other than a beer, nothing ego about it just the practice.

To be too set in your way and not to make an exception maynot be a function of the ego as you correctly pointed out. But inflexibility is something that nature abhorrs. Anyways, i made that comment with observation of the underlying motives of most people who are dilligent vegitarians.

Didn't know Siddhartha Gautama took to meat to not disappoint someone's offer to feed him meat??? Where did you learn this from?

It is a buddhist doctrine (well, not universally- its actually a debated viewpoint in buddhism, with some schools taking exception to it, some not) and the pali texts notes that Gautama said not to refuse any kind of food when its offered to you either in 'donation' (ie, you were begging) or if someone offered it to you out of their good will. As i take great interest in buddhism, i know this for a fact. However, i am sure if you read about 'vegitarianism and buddhism' you will find the abovementioned to be true.

Wouldn't I know there is nothing exciting in meat eating that isn't in Veggie food?

?? Dude, i am not knocking vegitarianism- i am just knocking absolute vegitarianism, where people are like 'i wont eat meat, come heaven or hell'. Extremism is not something i espouse. Middle path is what i try to follow. Oh and another thing i forgot to mention. Some societies genuinely cannot survive without meat. Eskimos or Bedouins or Tibetans must eat meat or they'll die. So if you argue from a purely moral basis, absolute vegitarianism cannot stand up in many societies.

[King]

Re: Vegetarians?

Dude, i am not knocking vegitarianism- i am just knocking absolute vegitarianism, where people are like 'i wont eat meat, come heaven or hell'. Extremism is not something i espouse. Middle path is what i try to follow. Oh and another thing i forgot to mention. Some societies genuinely cannot survive without meat. Eskimos or Bedouins or Tibetans must eat meat or they'll die. So if you argue from a purely moral basis, absolute vegitarianism cannot stand up in many societies.

"Come heaven or hell won't eath meat" will not work when it comes to life and death. In all possibilities a human will find his way to survive even be it eating filth let alone meat. :wtg:

[Predator_05]

Re: Vegetarians? OK, question from me for all the vegeterianos here - I would like to know why you guys abstain from eating meat ? Religious reasons ? Do yuo just hate the taste ? or do you find the idea of butchering another animal revolting ? is it habitual ? ie; an old friend of mine was raised on a vegggie diet, and didn't feel like changing. Maybe all the above ?

[Guest dada_rocks]

Re: Vegetarians? CC is right about buddha , his philopshy was that he won't kill anything for food but if somethign is already dead he won;t mind devouring. In fact it's said that he died due to food poisoning from consuming naturally dead pig's meat .

[Anakin]

Re: Vegetarians? CC, I'm not talking about absolute anything, rather normal regular life at most places, not arctic, or not stuck in some place where you can't live on fruits. I'm talking about everyday life and I'm sure we've progressed enough to live a healthy life on vegetables

[Anakin]

Re: Vegetarians?

OK, question from me for all the vegeterianos here - I would like to know why you guys abstain from eating meat ? Religious reasons ? Do yuo just hate the taste ? or do you find the idea of butchering another animal revolting ? is it habitual ? ie; an old friend of mine was raised on a vegggie diet, and didn't feel like changing. Maybe all the above ?

I'm finding butchering animal more revolting recently, specially when you can get by just fine without doing that.

[Lurker]

Re: Vegetarians? Here is my take on things. We as human beings are more close towards Animals(biologically) than plants. Like has been mentioned a number of times up above the meat products are extremely good in proteins. An argument can be made that some vege diets also have high level of proteins(say nuts, soy and pulses(daal) but they are wrong on two accounts. 1) The amount of protein you can get from one egg-white is same, or more, than what you would get from a cup of daal. Now what is easier to eat - two eggs(or eggwhites which dont have cholestrol) or two cups of daal? 2) Even if you did manage to have two cup of daals your body should be able to absorb it. Veg proteins dont have as much bio-availability as meat does. I would go so far as to say that there is no way you can give your body the regular dose of proteins needed if you are a complete vegetarian. By complete vegetarian I mean those that dont even have eggs. In my opinion a balanced diet should have lots of veggies(specially fibrous ones), eggs(whites preferably), lean meat(chicken on red depends on your religious values), dairy products and whole grains and fruits. If you are missing any of it you may not be having a complete diet. xxxx

[yoda]

Re: Vegetarians? http://www.vegan.org/FAQs/index.html As with any diet, a vegan diet requires planning. However, when properly planned, a vegan diet can be considerably healthier than the traditional American diet. In its 1996 position paper on vegetarian diets, the American Dietetic Association reported that vegan and vegetarian diets can significantly reduce one's risk of contracting heart disease, colon and lung cancer, osteoporosis, diabetes, kidney disease, hypertension, obesity, and a number of other debilitating conditions. Cows' milk contains ideal amounts of fat and protein for young calves, but far too much for humans. And eggs are higher in cholesterol than any other food, making them a leading contributor to cardiovascular disease. Vegan foods, such as whole grains, vegetables, fruits, and beans, are low in fat, contain no cholesterol, and are rich in fiber and nutrients. Vegans can get all the protein they need from legumes (e.g., beans, tofu, peanuts) and grains (e.g., rice, corn, whole wheat breads and pastas); calcium from broccoli, kale, collard greens, tofu, fortified juices and soymilks; iron from chickpeas, spinach, pinto beans, and soy products; and B12 from fortified foods or supplements.

[gator]

Re: Vegetarians? not everything in life is about protein and all tht..... science has evolved where we can get get supplements for anything like whey or zinc, coppper multiminerals and multivitamins.... bottom line is, whichever religion u r...... WE DONT HAVE THE RIGHT TO TAKE ANY LIFE.... If you do take it, cos u r forced to, when u r stuck in woods, then u may be pardoned, but otherwise if it is jus for pleasure, it is WRONG..... no doubts about tht... I am a voracious meat-eater, and i am beginning to think it is a sin, maybe cos i was born a brahmin... but i know in my mind, it is a sin... like someone said, we can eat to not hurt people's feeling.... comparing taking a creature's life to hurting someone's feeling is jus lame....

[Lurker]

Re: Vegetarians?

not everything in life is about protein and all tht..... science has evolved where we can get get supplements for anything like whey or zinc, coppper multiminerals and multivitamins....

You sure can get multivitamins but from where would you get protein supplements? Protein supplements are made of dairy, eggs and the likes. So if you go from protein supplements why not go for the original thing?

bottom line is, whichever religion u r...... WE DONT HAVE THE RIGHT TO TAKE ANY LIFE.... If you do take it, cos u r forced to, when u r stuck in woods, then u may be pardoned, but otherwise if it is jus for pleasure, it is WRONG..... no doubts about tht...

I do not think thats a valid statement. Actually it depends on one's beleif does it not? For example it can be argued that there is NO WAY one can kill a chicken, or a cow, unless it is ordained by God. I mean how does one belive in a super power and then supercede that power?

[gator]

Re: Vegetarians? reminds me of a line, Lurker... with great power, comes greater responsibility.... as the most powerful on the planet, it is our responsibility to protect other creatures..... every one of them is God's creation.... regarding eating Dairy foods equal to killing animals.... lemme ask u a question... ur mom gave u milk, wen u were young... would u kill and eat her???

[Anakin]

Re: Vegetarians? Good quote there gator. Yes, we're more like animals naturally. But we have the bad habit of killing for fun and luxury, like hunting for fun or for fur, and very often the innocent animals are skinned alive. Also saw some clips of how cows and pigs are battered before butchering, it's just inhumane to say the least. Anyway for that kind of behavior we're worse than other animals. On the other hand we know we could be spiritual, although personally I don't think it's very exclusive to humans alone, and the spiritualism thrived since the age of agriculture and horticulture. I'm sure there is some connection there, other than time saved from hunting.

[Raj]

Re: Vegetarians? Been a lacto-vegetarian (no eggs meat or fish containing products) since birth.

Meat eater from birth to age 12... Vegetarian from age 12-age 24... Now 25 and eating meat again...

COB how have you managed to do this, did you find any problems in digesting the meat? What made you turn back to being a meat eater? Married life? :lmao:

[gator]

Re: Vegetarians? All my family members are pure vegetarians and most lived past 80 and very healthy..... all on a vegetarian diet.... i dont believe in the BS tht u cant get all the nutrient from veggie diet....

[sandeep]

Re: Vegetarians? vegetarians of the world unite :wtg: give the rest of these uncivilzed carnivores a few hundred years, they too will evolve with time!

[Lurker]

Re: Vegetarians?

reminds me of a line, Lurker... with great power, comes greater responsibility.... as the most powerful on the planet, it is our responsibility to protect other creatures..... every one of them is God's creation....

If I bought that argument I would have had to undertake fast. Are you suggesting that plants are not God's creation? How come we are allowed to kill plants for our consumptions but not animals? Any grain you eat, wheat, rice etc, goes through a lifecyecle, at the end of which they are plucked out for our consumption. So please do tell why plants are "allowed" and not animals?

All my family members are pure vegetarians and most lived past 80 and very healthy..... all on a vegetarian diet.....

Gator. The definition of being healthy is quite weird in India. Most people consider themselves "healthy" but as soon as you start asking a few questions the truth comes out. Here is my simple question to most people who consider themselves healthy. Can you walk on the beach in swimming set and not feel conscious? Its one thing to call oneself healthy and have a chest of 32 and waist of 36. Sorry I dont consider that healthy at all. In fact I would going by my experience of Indians, specially IT Indians, most of them are unhealthy, specially those who are veggies. The other day I was buying some muscle t-shirt and imagine my surprise when the persons who were me told me point blank they wont wear it cos they have thin arms. Upon my prodding further as to why do they dont eat right and workout then the response was a galant "There is more to life than wearing t-shirts". Theek hai bhaiya. By the way the worst physique, generally speaking, that I have observed in my life are those of pure veggies - Marwaris for one.

i dont believe in the BS tht u cant get all the nutrient from veggie diet...

All powers to you for thinking that way. Now help me here. Lets nail this one down with some numbers and figures, shall we? It is said that a healthy man should consume about 2000 calories a day of which 20-30% should come from protein. In other words about 400-600 calories. So tell me how do you get 400- 600 calories of protein from a veggie diet. Feel free to consult any nutritional gadget, google etc you have at your disposal. Looking forward to it.

[sm332]

Re: Vegetarians? well I used to be a veg (ate eggs though) till 21 and then turned non-veg one fine day. Is there a dietary advantage ... I dont know really. All I can say is I am glad I have turned non-veg. Lots of options and some great food. Do think that as one ages moving to a more veg diet is prudent. At the end of the day balance is everthing. BTW - I am Marwari and although certainly no muscle man... I am far from a weakling so that generalization is pretty bogus.