Gaurav Posted December 14, 2006 Share Posted December 14, 2006 Can't we even look after our own soldiers? Jai Hind! http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/6178421.stm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beetle Posted December 14, 2006 Share Posted December 14, 2006 Re: Indian army's biggest enemy It's a real tough life... They need to do a lot more to make housing for families available......and send guys home more often.... The situation is realy bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaurav Posted December 14, 2006 Author Share Posted December 14, 2006 Re: Indian army's biggest enemy I absolutely hate Indian politicians. If I had my way I would kick then on to the streets! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dada_rocks Posted December 14, 2006 Share Posted December 14, 2006 Re: Indian army's biggest enemy Why won't anyone get depressd seeing brouhaha over terrorists getting life sentence by bicth brigade of Arundhati Roy. Families of all those who got killed in parliament attack have returned their medals. Jaspal Rana too has joined the chorus against the B-Brigade of arundhati. When u pay these folks peanuts least u can do is not devalue their sacrifices Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beetle Posted December 14, 2006 Share Posted December 14, 2006 Re: Indian army's biggest enemy What can be a bigger cause than your motherland.........? People like arundhati and medha patkar(sorry ....but i have lost a lot of respect for this professional protestor now) are just publicity starved vultures.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theguyinallblue Posted December 14, 2006 Share Posted December 14, 2006 Re: Indian army's biggest enemy i think protesting and going against the wishes of common public is the sure shot idea to get in the news and have some footage.. indian army should have a TEA brigage ( Traitor Eliminaton Army) who will take such mission to eliminate these traitors who claims to be indian .. these people should not be shown any mercy..these are the things which make me wish that BJP returns back to power with full majority..so settle the things once and for all...later on we will see the repurcations of international community....saala No Pakistan...No Laphda... Pakistan will be wiped from the world map like pompey by a holocoust of atomic storms...preferably coming from the israel side.. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted December 14, 2006 Share Posted December 14, 2006 Re: Indian army's biggest enemy I honestly think some of you are missing the point here. Our politicians are surely to blame for a lot of ills of India today but for a change they not be the reason behind the situation today. Here's why. Recently British Government had announced that they would be giving a bonus of 90 pounds a week to all combantants in the most dangerous zone of Afganistan. The maximum a soldier could earn was a possible 1900 pounds. Then a few days back British Government withrew it citing some Accounting glitches. Compare this with some of the bonuses that civilians are getting. Goldman Sachs is an over the top example but it is said that a Secretary there makes for 60 grand plus a year and this year the bonus would be almost the same. The situation of Indian soldiers today is similar to what American soldiers experienced when they went back to USA after World War or Vietnam. At best they received honours, at worst they did not get a job and died in penury. These were/are people who had faced worst that life had to offer only to come back and see that the best jobs had been taken by those who stayed back. Who would not get depressed? The depression of Indian soldiers stems from that. Most of the soldiers have faced some sort of 'action'. Be it in Kashmir or NorthEast or Naxals or even disaster ranging from man-made(riots) to natural(floods and earthquakes). It surely would be no fun to return home(if one is lucky) only to see that his measly salary is infinitely small as compared to his neighbour who had gone to Punjab or Western UP as a "majdoor", forget about those who have migrated to Bombay or Delhi and making money today. I bet many of them would wonder if sacrificing life for their country was worth it. The Army thrives on a few values - one of which is how it takes care of its soldiers and officers. I feel the soldiers and officers are not well looked after today. But how can they be better looked after? More salary, better benefits? Privatisation? No easy answers there. I know once getting into NDA/IMA was as prestigious as getting into IIT/IIM. Today things are substantially different. xxxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dada_rocks Posted December 14, 2006 Share Posted December 14, 2006 Re: Indian army's biggest enemy I don't think in officers' rank there is salary issue and these officers most of the time even are accompanied by their family wherever they are posted . They get top notch facility in every sense have been interviewed thrice for NDA by these guys and have stayed their in officers club and seen how they live. We are not fighting major war like world war either. Then in housing development sponspored by govt they deservedly get preferential treatment that too at lower cost. Go to Noida for instance you will find that most of the apartments u rent happens to have some military man landlords. Salary is the issue in the ranks of foot-soldier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gator Posted December 14, 2006 Share Posted December 14, 2006 Re: Indian army's biggest enemy thts right.... officers get great treatment everywhere... only the soldiers need better pay and insurances.... it should atleast be something like, their kids will be provided free education for however long they want in military schools and colleges... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted December 14, 2006 Share Posted December 14, 2006 Re: Indian army's biggest enemy I don't think in officers' rank there is salary issue and these officers most of the time even are accompanied by their family wherever they are posted . They get top notch facility in every sense have been interviewed thrice for NDA by these guys and have stayed their in officers club and seen how they live. We are not fighting major war like world war either. Then in housing development sponspored by govt they deservedly get preferential treatment that too at lower cost. Go to Noida for instance you will find that most of the apartments u rent happens to have some military man landlords. Salary is the issue in the ranks of foot-soldier. Not true. I bet you have read about the scarcity that IAF faces today of pilots. Most Air Force squadrons are short on qualified pilots as suggested on more than 1 occassion by Air Chief Marshall. Enough newsreport emerge every other month as to how Indian Aviation Industry is luring IAF pilots with higher salaries. It is a big mistake to think Officers are being paid in keeping with times. The Highest Officer of Indian State, President's salary is 50,000 INR(link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President_of_India) so you can imagine the salary of an Army Officer. Even with all the benefits the salary of say a Air Chief Marshall(highest in IAF) would be no match for a 10 year old IT executive today. As for the foot soldiers the less said the better. The salary for the Defence Forces(as also cops, teachers etc) needs a serious revisit. True their nature of the job is not always about money but it would be wrong to think a jawaan/a sipahi/a cop do not need money to survive. xxxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted December 14, 2006 Share Posted December 14, 2006 Re: Indian army's biggest enemy "Everybody knows the Indian aviation sector is booming and there's a shortage of trained pilots. And the private sector offers 10 times the salary we offer. The air chief marshal said he did not begrudge the high salaries being offered to his pilots by private airlines. But he could not release pilots unless they were not required by the IAF. "If there's a war how would it sound if I have to tell the government and the people of this country that 'sorry we can't fight as my boys are flying a civilian aircraft'." -- IAF chief SP Tyagi http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4919420.stm (Bear in mind that IAF pilots are supposedly one of the well paid and most coveted job in Indian Defence Forces). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dada_rocks Posted December 14, 2006 Share Posted December 14, 2006 Re: Indian army's biggest enemy I don't think in officers' rank there is salary issue and these officers most of the time even are accompanied by their family wherever they are posted . They get top notch facility in every sense have been interviewed thrice for NDA by these guys and have stayed their in officers club and seen how they live. We are not fighting major war like world war either. Then in housing development sponspored by govt they deservedly get preferential treatment that too at lower cost. Go to Noida for instance you will find that most of the apartments u rent happens to have some military man landlords. Salary is the issue in the ranks of foot-soldier. Not true. I bet you have read about the scarcity that IAF faces today of pilots. Most Air Force squadrons are short on qualified pilots as suggested on more than 1 occassion by Air Chief Marshall. Enough newsreport emerge every other month as to how Indian Aviation Industry is luring IAF pilots with higher salaries. It is a big mistake to think Officers are being paid in keeping with times. The Highest Officer of Indian State, President's salary is 50,000 INR(link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President_of_India) so you can imagine the salary of an Army Officer. Even with all the benefits the salary of say a Air Chief Marshall(highest in IAF) would be no match for a 10 year old IT executive today. As for the foot soldiers the less said the better. The salary for the Defence Forces(as also cops, teachers etc) needs a serious revisit. True their nature of the job is not always about money but it would be wrong to think a jawaan/a sipahi/a cop do not need money to survive. xxxx You are comparing the salary with private sector it will always be less. 50000 basic salary and that amounts to at least 100000 gross. Scientist D in DRDO gets 50000, astt. director in federally funded research institute gets 50000 gross. Moreover salary structure is same as the civilian jobs witha dded perks for military officers so had the salary been the issue suicide practice would have been rampant across the whole spectrum of govt employees but we don't see that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted December 14, 2006 Share Posted December 14, 2006 Re: Indian army's biggest enemy You are comparing the salary with private sector it will always be less. 50000 basic salary and that amounts to at least 100000 gross. Scientist D in DRDO gets 50000, astt. director in federally funded research institute gets 50000 gross. Moreover salary structure is same as the civilian jobs witha dded perks for military officers so had the salary been the issue suicide practice would have been rampant across the whole spectrum of govt employees but we don't see that. And your point is? If you put 100,000 INR gross for President you have got to realize that any civil servant(which military personnels are) would always have a salary less than that. Now a President may not care for money, but a Major does. If the President of India makes gross 12 lakh annum, how much would a major make? Perhaps half of that. A mid-level IT person(with 3-4) years experience makes more than that. So given a choice what would an Armed Officer do? Well switch jobs of course. I have seen enough of Colonels and Majors moving to IT. I have given the example up above of pilots switching to civilian aviation. It is one thing to have Private Sector pay more but completely other to have a difference of 10 times. Why would a Fighter Pilot do the job at 5 lakhs an annum when he can make 50 in Private sector? Would you and me take a 1/10 of what we make and join an Public Sector? Why should the Defence Personnel do the sacrifice which you and I wont do? Putting simply, the salary of Armed Force personnel needs a serious revisit if India has to retain the best talent. xxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gator Posted December 14, 2006 Share Posted December 14, 2006 Re: Indian army's biggest enemy i think, we go more for quantity than quality.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dada_rocks Posted December 15, 2006 Share Posted December 15, 2006 Re: Indian army's biggest enemy You are comparing the salary with private sector it will always be less. 50000 basic salary and that amounts to at least 100000 gross. Scientist D in DRDO gets 50000, astt. director in federally funded research institute gets 50000 gross. Moreover salary structure is same as the civilian jobs witha dded perks for military officers so had the salary been the issue suicide practice would have been rampant across the whole spectrum of govt employees but we don't see that. And your point is? If you put 100,000 INR gross for President you have got to realize that any civil servant(which military personnels are) would always have a salary less than that. Now a President may not care for money, but a Major does. If the President of India makes gross 12 lakh annum, how much would a major make? Perhaps half of that. A mid-level IT person(with 3-4) years experience makes more than that. So given a choice what would an Armed Officer do? Well switch jobs of course. I have seen enough of Colonels and Majors moving to IT. I have given the example up above of pilots switching to civilian aviation. It is one thing to have Private Sector pay more but completely other to have a difference of 10 times. Why would a Fighter Pilot do the job at 5 lakhs an annum when he can make 50 in Private sector? Would you and me take a 1/10 of what we make and join an Public Sector? Why should the Defence Personnel do the sacrifice which you and I wont do? Putting simply, the salary of Armed Force personnel needs a serious revisit if India has to retain the best talent. xxx So someone is commiting sucide in india because he makes 6 lakh per annum.... I believe my father should have committed thousand suicides by now in that case (holds double MA with distinction and gold medal and gets paid paltry 15000/month)... Dare I say 99% India should have done collective harakirir too if this were the norm. If they are committing suicide because people in private sector are makng more money then I am sorry to say before joining IAF they should have thought about it , you can't get free top-notch training on govt dime which runs close to 10 crores for every fighter pilot, and say that i want to now leave the job and join private sector. Private airlines has always paid more but to get the licence you end up spending more than 15 lakhs (figure from 10 years ago) in training and not many of those who got training on govt dime could afford that. Why don't u understand it's not only them that is getting lower salary in comparison to private sector employees, but we don't see this suicide hysteria elsewhere. In wake of this in my view fault has to lie somewhere else. Defence personnel in officers cadre have many other perks which civilian sector employees to go with the similar salary structure so i am not buying the argument that they somehow are in financial crisis and hence committing suicide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beetle Posted December 15, 2006 Share Posted December 15, 2006 Re: Indian army's biggest enemy >>>>I don't think in officers' rank there is salary issue and these officers most of the time even are accompanied by their family wherever they are posted . They get top notch facility in every sense have been interviewed thrice for NDA by these guys and have stayed their in officers club and seen how they live. We are not fighting major war like world war either. Then in housing development sponspored by govt they deservedly get preferential treatment that too at lower cost. Go to Noida for instance you will find that most of the apartments u rent happens to have some military man landlords. Salary is the issue in the ranks of foot-soldier. The soldiers do have the worst ....there is accute shortage of houses ...low salaries ...and most importantly ..the failure to get the sanctioned leave because of lack of manpower.... also not being able to help out the family at home ...most of the times in villages either themselves or with enough money. As for officers....to say that they get payed well is quite an insult. Compared to the qualifications(including the military qualification).....time put in .....and the kind of work involved....they get paid peanuts specially compared to their mates who chose to be civilians..... In the old days ....the army officers(defence officers) were paid well comparitively....but now the only reason a person chooses to join is because this is what they want to do.... In my family the previous generation was almost 95%in the armed forces....now may be only 50%. There is acute shortage of housing. As for officers staying with family....it is in Peace postings only ....in field postings families are not allowed. Comparing the standard of living to NDA is not correct as that is the pride of the armed forces...a premier institute.It's like saying all govt servants live in houses like rastrapati bhawan. Yes most houses in some sectors of noida do belong to defence officers(and men in ranks)....but remember...this is all they are able to manage after a long and honest life in the forces....sometimes some of them have lucky investment in houses in places which later on become hot spots like noida and defence colony ...but that in no way means that they are rich.Most retired faujis have just a house to show for all their lifes worth.That doesn't mean a good life.Please don't grudge them that one house they manage to save for ....often paying installments for it most of their working life. The present generation is slightly better....a lot of wives work ....although its just a job ...not a career because of the constant movement .... But most importantly .....the suicides don't happen because of either money...or comparision in salaries....or even the facilities. Most of these suicides happen in hostile postings...where soldiers are expected to fight a battle they are not meant to fight(it is the job of the police and paramilitary forces)....and are sometimes not trained psychologically to fight....this they do day in and day out ....without families for emotional support.They stay so far away from their families.....don't see their kids for long times...can't help out aging parents.... All this adds up ....and unfortunately in a male dominated country ....men are not supposed to be having emotional problems...and soldiersmore so.Most of the times...there is reluctance to ask for help as itis not the done hing for men.It finally gets too much for some.... Most of the cases in recent times that i have readhave been of soldiers and officers returning from home.It probably has to do with their helplessness in solving problems back home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beetle Posted December 15, 2006 Share Posted December 15, 2006 Re: Indian army's biggest enemy >>>Defence personnel in officers cadre have many other perks which civilian sector employees to go with the similar salary structure So why is there such an accute shortage of officers in the armed forces? Lesser number of men are doing the work of the "missing officers".If it is such a good life....how do we see such a shortage? Because a lot of people who joined earlier for a respectable and good life are not joining..... now you join because you want to join......respect.?..yes ...good life?....not always. >>>> We are not fighting major war like world war either. What do you call the present situation? We are not fighting a WAR...but are constantly at war.... We have lost more faujis in anti terrorist operations than we have ever lost it in any war.... Frankly speaking ....this assumption that because we are not at war....the armed forces are not doing anything is so insulting to the men who are constantly fighting this endless war.What do you know.?...do you have to pray for your loved ones in these postings....hoping you won't hear their name on tv someday..... I have a cousin whose daughter is 1and1/2 years and her poor husband has only seen his daughters picture till now.....they have been married for 5 yrs and they have lived only 1 and half yrs together....that too in a semi field area. Think about it....you may not be at war....but there are people fighting a war out therefor you. Ofcourse some people can say that they knew about it before they joined the forces....but then that is a choice they made and you didn't......be thankful for it .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beetle Posted December 15, 2006 Share Posted December 15, 2006 Re: Indian army's biggest enemy It is a tough life... In field postings....fight terrorists... In peace postings.....fight floods ...riots ...earthquakes...and other calmities. Oneway to help out is by improving the police and the paramilitary forces so that they can take over some of the responsibility that is actually thers... But its easier said than done....the police walas and the soldiers of the paramilitary forces are not in a better condition....infact far worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beetle Posted December 15, 2006 Share Posted December 15, 2006 Re: Indian army's biggest enemy >>> I am sorry to say before joining IAF they should have thought about it , you can't get free top-notch training on govt dime which runs close to 10 crores for every fighter pilot, and say that i want to now leave the job and join private sector. Private airlines has always paid more but to get the licence you end up spending more than 15 lakhs (figure from 10 years ago) in training and not many of those who got training on govt dime could afford that. Fauj is not a concert that you can leave when you want...if the forces don't want you to leave...you cannot leave . Most of the pilots who leave do that because they don't see any further chance of promotion.The forces are run stictly by seniority and you can not serve under someone your junior.Once you are overlooked for further promotion...your chances of continued flying also reduces and hence your value too.a pilot who joins the force to fly does not feel valued when he can neither fly nor get promoted ....and when he finishes the minimum required time stipulated for the retirement....he opt out for a job where he gets to fly ...get respected more and paid more.If we don't begrudge him the jump in pay....he is still serving the nation(as there is extreme shortage of pilots in the civil avaition)in some way....better than not flying at all and wasting the tax payers money. It is not like they leave the forces without notice or during active flying. Anyways i have no doubt that most of them would opt to come back and fight for the forces if we were to go to war. The shortage of pilots is not because of pilots leaving....most of these pilots who leave have finished most of their active flying and are headed for desk jobs(what a waste).... The shortage is because of not many young men joining to replace these pilots. It takes a lot to risk your life flying old aircrafts(atleast in training stages till now).... and get paid peanuts for it....only really crazy guys go on to become fighter pilots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted December 15, 2006 Share Posted December 15, 2006 Re: Indian army's biggest enemy If they are committing suicide because people in private sector are makng more money then I am sorry to say before joining IAF they should have thought about it ' date=' [b']you can't get free top-notch training on govt dime which runs close to 10 crores for every fighter pilot, and say that i want to now leave the job and join private sector. Private airlines has always paid more but to get the licence you end up spending more than 15 lakhs (figure from 10 years ago) in training and not many of those who got training on govt dime could afford that. I am actually not surprised at the callousness of such a rhetorical post. Here is my simple straight up question. Forget these Pilots and all. Why are the IITians quick to jump the ship and go to US/UK??? Ever thought about that? Why doesnt DRDO exactly cram with IITians? And why does all the US Universities and companies do? Why does every Tom, Dick, Harry who have walked through the gates of IIT Kanpur dream of coming to US and not spending his life at ISRO? You think Indian Government(and citizens) spend nothing on them?? Get real. Atleast IAF pilots are still in India, not running abroad, and not thinking of a job at Wall-Street as their dream jobs. We Indians are biggest hyprocites. We expect others to do what we would never do ourselves. So an IAF pilot is supposed to sacrifice everything for India while a IIT Engineer is not. Why? Because an IITian has a sister to get married, old parents to take care of but surely the Pilot doesnt, right? Come back to me with arguments the day majority of IITians would be joining DRDO for a salary that is fraction of what Infosys or Goldman Sachs offers. Till then everyone knows ke baap bara na bhaiya sabse bara rupaiya..atleast for these creme de la creame. xxxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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