Dhondy Posted March 28, 2010 Share Posted March 28, 2010 I didn't see Tendulkar in there! May be we need to have a combination of 2 bowlers (preferably in their home venues). In order to do a proper comparison' date=' it's better to go by the bowling attacks.[/quote'] Sure. Try this: http://stats.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;filter=advanced;opposition=2;orderby=batting_average;player_involve=2000;player_involve=2101;player_involve_type=all;qualmax1=50;qualmin1=5;qualval1=matches;template=results;type=batting Or this: http://stats.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;filter=advanced;opposition=2;orderby=batting_average;player_involve=2101;player_involve=2286;player_involve_type=all;qualmax1=50;qualmin1=5;qualval1=matches;template=results;type=batting BTW, Sachinism, I know this is infuriating for you, but I didn't make this up. It's all there, in B&W. I didn't stipulate that Sachin should never play a Test match against the three best bowlers of Australia's epoch making side despite 20 years in Test cricket. Link to comment
Sachinism Posted March 28, 2010 Share Posted March 28, 2010 I stick my neck out and say that either/both of Ponting/Kallis will break SRT's test records. People here mock and abuse Ponting left, right and center. Sure he is a very unpleasant personality and his OTT aggressiveness sucks. But anyone would love such a player in their team. Ponting could easily resign from captaincy to focus purely on his batting like SRT has been doing for donkeys years. That's where I admire Ponting immensely. He want's to build a team after retirement of legends and fight on, rather than just focus on himself. And he is not doing to shabbily. IN all honesty as sheer value to each one's team, SRT is not even a match to Ponting. Yeh Ponting is such a selfless person. We saw in Mohali how for the cause of the team he didn't bowl Lee and used part timers to increase the over rate Link to comment
patriot Posted March 28, 2010 Share Posted March 28, 2010 Patriot, how would your opinion of Sachin change if 1. Sachin was part of a WC winning squad 2. Sachin won us the WC Let us not mix ODIS with tests. Let they be 2 separate discussions. Now, what point are you trying to make ? Link to comment
Sachinism Posted March 28, 2010 Share Posted March 28, 2010 See what I mean ? @$ such as this guy resort to personal abuse in every second post but moderators gladly choose to ignore it and in turn ban someone who retaliates to such provocation. I hope the mods are looking. I guess you can get away with everything and anything on ICF as long as you do a mala jaap of the most over rated cricketer ever. I am looking, Troll Link to comment
patriot Posted March 28, 2010 Share Posted March 28, 2010 Yeh Ponting is such a selfless person. We saw in Mohali how for the cause of the team he didn't bowl Lee and used part timers to increase the over rate SO that he loses so many overs that he is banned for a few matches ? And would the same pacers who were rendered so ineffective for over 100 overs make much of a difference by bowling 5-6 more overs ? Common sense ? Link to comment
EnterTheVoid Posted March 28, 2010 Share Posted March 28, 2010 Let us not mix ODIS with tests. Let they be 2 separate discussions. Now, what point are you trying to make ? Overall, how will you remember him once he retires ? Link to comment
patriot Posted March 28, 2010 Share Posted March 28, 2010 I am looking' date=' Troll[/quote'] Luzlers. When a rabid fanboy is a mod, can you expect anything better than double standards ?:hysterical: Link to comment
Dhondy Posted March 28, 2010 Share Posted March 28, 2010 Sachinism, please start another thread to showcase your legendary sarcasm. Link to comment
Sachinism Posted March 28, 2010 Share Posted March 28, 2010 SO that he loses so many overs that he is banned for a few matches ? And would the same pacers who were rendered so ineffective for over 100 overs make much of a difference by bowling 5-6 more overs ? Common sense ? Sorry it was Nagpur. Which was the last test, a must win match. Look at the situation of the match, India were so close to being dead and buried and to save his own skin he allowed Dhoni and Bhaji to pound them :cantstop: Ineffective for 100 overs? The 2nd session India lost 6 wickets for 66. Do you really not know what difference 5-6 overs from the top bowlers would have made? Link to comment
Guest BossBhai Posted March 28, 2010 Share Posted March 28, 2010 -- Removed on request of the user -- Link to comment
vvvslaxman Posted March 28, 2010 Share Posted March 28, 2010 With more people in the fray now BB must be regretting for why he decided to keep on making a pointless argument with imaginative theories. Now Tendulkar will have hard time being regarded as a better batsman than his contemporaries let alone Bradman. lol. You should have been satisfied with 2nd best complement and given it up. Link to comment
vvvslaxman Posted March 28, 2010 Share Posted March 28, 2010 Sure. Try this: http://stats.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;filter=advanced;opposition=2;orderby=batting_average;player_involve=2000;player_involve=2101;player_involve_type=all;qualmax1=50;qualmin1=5;qualval1=matches;template=results;type=batting Or this: http://stats.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;filter=advanced;opposition=2;orderby=batting_average;player_involve=2101;player_involve=2286;player_involve_type=all;qualmax1=50;qualmin1=5;qualval1=matches;template=results;type=batting BTW, Sachinism, I know this is infuriating for you, but I didn't make this up. It's all there, in B&W. I didn't stipulate that Sachin should never play a Test match against the three best bowlers of Australia's epoch making side despite 20 years in Test cricket. So much for pwning "demonic fast bowlers" of this era right? :cantstop: But i am not sure about Sachin. But Veeru faced around 120 ball from Akhtar and scored around 110 runs in Tests. Link to comment
patriot Posted March 28, 2010 Share Posted March 28, 2010 Overall' date=' how will you remember him once he retires, taking everything into consideration, his performances, captaincy, humility etc.[/quote'] Lets not bring in external factors like humility, grace, off field demeanor etc etc. All these are just used to cover up his obvious deficiencies on sheer performance. I will remember him as a great servant of Indian cricket, who gave it his all for the team. But so did Kumble, Dravid, Sehwag and many others. His performances have led him to build a glittering array of individual statistics, which if explored minutely leave alot to be desired as Dhondy and myself have proven. I just this to say: His utter failure as captain, compared to his peers ( other great batsman) only highlights very very boldly, that he can perform only when he has nothing else to think of then himself. Sunny captained in the 80's with a 1.00+ W/L ratio and an avg of 50+ , opened the batting facing the most fearsome pace bowlers in the history of the game without any protective guard. This was at a time when INdia was one of the poorest performing test teams and he hardly had any comparabler support in batting. SRT's value to the INdian team is not even 20 % of Gavaskar's, when the latter played. Link to comment
Dhondy Posted March 28, 2010 Share Posted March 28, 2010 Theres only 4 tests where SRT came H2H with all the 3 in the other side and out of that 4 he was batting with one leg and one hand in one test ' date=' got hacked by Harper in 2 of the other 3 ( I know this will cause quite a bit of consternation but the man himself was man enough to own up his mistake ) but still made a brilliant 100 at MCG and followed it up with a 50.[/quote'] You know the rules, Boss. You can't add qualifiers. He averaged 39.25 in those 4 Tests and appears in the bottom half of the table. Link to comment
zen Posted March 28, 2010 Share Posted March 28, 2010 Sure. Try this: http://stats.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;filter=advanced;opposition=2;orderby=batting_average;player_involve=2000;player_involve=2101;player_involve_type=all;qualmax1=50;qualmin1=5;qualval1=matches;template=results;type=batting Or this: http://stats.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;filter=advanced;opposition=2;orderby=batting_average;player_involve=2101;player_involve=2286;player_involve_type=all;qualmax1=50;qualmin1=5;qualval1=matches;template=results;type=batting I adjusted it a little to consider the period that Sachin played against them, i.e. 1 Jan 1999 to 1 Jan 2005, to standardize the form of the bowlers Below is what the result: link CL Cairns (NZ) 2000-2001 6 11 0 515 109 46.81 754 68.30 1 3 0 54 17 investigate this query VVS Laxman (India) 1999-2004 9 17 0 777 281 45.70 1272 61.08 2 3 1 125 0 investigate this query NJ Astle (NZ) 2000-2004 8 15 1 615 156* 43.92 1114 55.20 1 3 1 80 1 investigate this query JH Kallis (SA) 2001-2002 6 12 2 429 99 42.90 921 46.57 0 4 0 52 1 investigate this query SR Tendulkar (India) 1999-2004 7 14 0 592 126 42.28 1067 55.48 2 4 1 76 3 investigate this query AC Parore (NZ) 2000-2001 6 11 4 294 110 42.00 704 41.76 1 0 0 31 5 investigate this query MA Butcher (Eng) 1999-2002 9 18 1 648 173* 38.11 1205 53.77 1 2 1 81 1 investigate this query ND McKenzie (SA) 2001-2002 6 12 1 415 99 37.72 929 44.67 0 3 1 62 1 investigate this query HH Gibbs (SA) 2001-2002 6 12 0 451 104 37.58 903 49.94 1 2 0 70 0 investigate this query G Kirsten (SA) 2001-2002 6 12 0 437 153 36.41 980 44.59 1 2 0 62 0 investigate this query Mohammad Yousuf (Pak) 1999-2004 5 10 0 358 111 35.80 580 61.72 1 2 1 47 5 investigate this query N Hussain (Eng) 1999-2002 7 14 1 460 61 35.38 1107 41.55 0 5 0 49 2 investigate this query MR Ramprakash (Eng) 1999-2001 5 10 0 346 133 34.60 753 45.94 1 0 0 43 0 investigate this query AJ Stewart (Eng) 1999-2002 9 17 2 487 76* 32.46 786 61.95 0 4 4 63 1 investigate this query R Dravid (India) 1999-2004 9 17 0 540 180 31.76 1597 33.81 1 2 2 62 1 investigate this query SP Fleming (NZ) 2000-2004 8 15 0 471 105 31.40 1069 44.05 1 4 2 54 0 investigate this query CD McMillan (NZ) 2000-2004 7 13 1 372 79 31.00 838 44.39 0 3 1 46 6 investigate this query Sachin sits at the top amongst those he is being compared to! Has the most 100s, 4 50s and an average of 40+ w/o any not outs Link to comment
patriot Posted March 28, 2010 Share Posted March 28, 2010 So much for pwning "demonic fast bowlers" of this era right? :cantstop: But i am not sure about Sachin. But Veeru faced around 120 ball from Akhtar and scored around 110 runs in Tests. By the time Veeru retires he should score 10-11K runs. I have no doubt that neutral agencies like Wisden etc..would annoint him as the greatest Indian test bat along with SMG. Link to comment
Gunner_Mania Posted March 28, 2010 Share Posted March 28, 2010 Ponting could easily resign from captaincy to focus purely on his batting like SRT has been doing for donkeys years. That's where I admire Ponting immensely. He want's to build a team after retirement of legends and fight on, rather than just focus on himself. Ponting knows the day he gives up captaincy will be the end of his playing career in a baggy green cap.When did the last time an ex-Australian captain play a test match under a new captain? India would take an in-form Tendulkar anyday over and out of form Captain Tendulkar and frankly I don't see a point why he should carry the burden of 10 other players in a team game. He is doing his best and that is all anybody can do, if the supporting cast does not perform. There is nothing that Ponting is doing to build a team after the retirment of legends, he was lucky enough to captain a team full of legends and can be bereft of ideas when his team is not performing without the legends as the Ashes series last year would show. Link to comment
Sachinism Posted March 28, 2010 Share Posted March 28, 2010 Seriously do you not understand cricket. If he felt he wasn't the best choice for captain and decided not to take it, whats wrong with that. At the end of the day, it was done for the cause of the team, but I guess you won't understand that. For someone who accuses Sachin of being selfish and playing for records, you seriously fail to grasp the meaning of team sport. Link to comment
thevortex Posted March 28, 2010 Share Posted March 28, 2010 Dhondy - that was useful for me to understand where you come from. Thank you. I respect your viewpoint but still disagree. The'Against's' that you chalk up assumes that Sachin Tendulkar is not a single man in a team but a team by himself - for the most part. There was one point that says he falters against unlikely bowlers. How is that an 'against' in such a comparison? That is a fact, I am not doubting that. But I definitely dont think that that makes him a lesser batsman than the others. Anyway lets agree to disagree and move on. Link to comment
patriot Posted March 28, 2010 Share Posted March 28, 2010 We can all speculate how much higher Ponting would average if he played only as a batter, worrying just about his own batting Link to comment
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