70 jawans killed in biggest Maoists/Naxal attack ever in India

[Clarke]

Shocking :fail: by Kangress Home Ministry. If you read the news item I posted earlier, this should've been done in 2009 itself!! Home Ministry had this plan in 2009 too to use UAVs. Effing tossers.

Oh well, the link u gave says "The HAL is developing the UAVs with an aerospace company of Israel, a known technologically advanced country." If they're mentioning of the UAVs being developed in house, u know how well domestic defense industry performs in terms of objectives & deadlines. I was of the opinion that the best in business Heron would be put into use. Not sure if its overkill or otherwise for the task at hand.

[asterix]

Clarke..India already has Israeli drones. it take political will to use them. They were wasting time in developing an indigenuous one in November 2009.

[Clarke]

Yes sir, thats what i meant in terms of using the Heron maybe. Sree_Israel can answer better.

[asterix]

No water, food or medicines. Now, go fight 'biggest threat' DORNAPAL (CHHATTISGARH): For six years, the government has cried hoarse about Maoists being the single biggest security threat to India. Yet, the Indian state is sending its footsoldiers into battle on an empty stomach, without adequate drinking water and medical facilities. CRPF men on the frontline of the war against Maoists in the dense jungles say the Red combatants are just one of the threats they face. Jawans of 62nd battalion of CRPF holed up in the Chintalnar camp -- near the site of Tuesday's ambush that left 76 men dead -- say they can defend themselves against another Maoist attack but are defenceless against malaria and poisonous reptiles. Conditions aren't any better at the other camps, jawans said, speaking on condition of anonymity. Several jawans claimed patrolling parties often go without enough food. "We are also fighting in the anti-insurgency mode. Army soldiers get dry fruits and other eatables in sufficient quantity during operations. We have to fight on empty stomach and dry throats. Our jawans need food that matches the task at hand," said a CRPF jawan. "Malaria is one of the biggest challenges of living here. People frequently fall sick. Some of us have to proceed on sick leave. What has made matters worse is the non-availability of medical facilities," said one CRPF jawan staying in the camp. "Forget qualified doctors, there are not even decent medicine shops. The local doctors would prescribe the same regular medicines for disease. The nearest hospitals are some distance away. This is not only our plight but of everyone posted or deployed in remote jungle camps," he said. Apart from lack of medical assistance, jawans also complained of poisonous insects and snakes. "At night, you are not sure of what may bite or sting you. Forget patrolling, one is not safe even in camps," said a CRPF constable. "If a snake or something as poisonous bites a victim, there may not be a chance to save him," he added. Scarcity of water is another issue plaguing the personnel at the camps and while there may be a few pumps, these are often rendered useless in the absence of electricity. "Water is a big problem here. We have no clue how to manage in this place where we have to work under constant threat and high daytime temperatures," said a jawan. He said jawans on active patrol have to go without potable water at times. "There is no surety we would get drinking water. Sometimes we have to drink water from the same pond that animals use to quench their thirst. The unhygienic living conditions are leading to diseases and many personnel are falling sick," he said. "There is no pat on the back for a good job done but always some kind of harassment in the name of discipline," said a jawan. While it is easy for politicians to issue war cries far from the battleground, those on the ground say they are ill-equipped to fight under the conditions they have to. "We are losing lives in a battle that can be sorted out. There are many ways in which our force can be better utilized," said the jawan. http://toi.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/No-water-food-or-medicines-Now-go-fight-biggest-threat/articleshow/5775869.cms

[asterix]

UPDATE: Home Minister Chidambaram offers to resign. BJP asks Chidambaram to not chicken out and be a wimp. BJP asks Chidambaram to 'double fold his lungi (kamar kas ke)' and get on with the task and backs him fully. CM Buddhadeb Bhattacharya too asks Chidambaram to not take blam or blame other and join hands to tackle the Naxal menance.

[Clarke]

^^ He didnt chicken out. When the Home Minister came back from his Dantewada tour he reportedly met the Prime Minister and told him that if he (Prime Minister) was dissatisfied with his performance, he was ready to step down. It is a thankless job for sure; i dont understand how he is responsible for the violation of operational procedures on the field. You recall days before the massacre PC asked the states to 'do more' against the maoists while Buddhadeb was like STFU. It just sounded like USA talking to Pakistan for once :wall:

[asterix]

Do more against Maoists? What's Congress been doing for past 60 years? What's the central policy about takling this NATIONAL issue which Congress likes to put the blame on States? Who wi'll coordinate operations against Naxals who are roaming from one state to the other state? How to 'Do More'? What PC or Congress expects? States coordinate amonge themselves and ask Army to train more Police and para-military forces, buy Drones from Israel and deploy them? What 'do more' PC, Home ministry and Congress govt. expects? This is not the time to ask PM whether he is 'dissatisfied' or not. This is like playing in the hands of Maoist. Stupid Congress leadership. This is not the time to be dissatisfied but to launch a 'hot persuit' on these Naxals, bring in specialised troops, bring in Air power, drones. Bring in developement, employement, funds and basic amenities in to these areas. Coordinate with States, continue with the 'Green Hunt' operation and not act like wimp and ask a stupid PM whether he is 'dissatisfied' or not. Saala, one day 'we will not bring in Air assault', other day 'we will employ drones'.. Flop-flop every other day. What sort of operation Congress is running here? For years these areas have not seen dvelopement of any nature. The CRPF men had to search for water and medical facilities. What about the local population? Why wouldn't they join the Naxals? For 60 years the successive congress goventment have failed to bring in any sort of developement in the remote areas. Where is the NREGAs and Rajive Gandhi rojgar yojana in these areas? Creating all sorts of issues in India for past 60 years and now asking the states to 'Do More'?

[Vikas Bhatt]

The corrupt and inefficient Indian Govt never learns. One would have thought they would have learnt their lessons when 30-40 soldiers were ambushed in the past or when 1000 Maoists attacked a jail and freed 300 prisoners. But we never learn. We always talk big and wait for bigger tragedies and causalities before public outrage forces them to act.

[someone]

To be honest, I really believe this is due to our mindset. We Indians are never happy to see other people having some opportunities. So for example, if the government launches any program which benefits a particular group of people. We will hear other people criticizing the government for neglecting them and in turn not only getting themselves nothing but also preventing that particular group from getting some opportunities. We really live in this kind of India whereas people want only themselves to be served first and last. Although, this does not take away criticism from the government whom at times have really benefited certain group of people who they know will come at vote for them in return. But, the point is really why we really have to compare ourselves with others but rather as a country? In this case, if government spends $ in military, they will receive stick from both our masala nonsense media and poor people on how the government favors them and neglect these other group. And if the government does not spend $ on military, they will still receive stick from our media and now from the army people.

[Vikas Bhatt]

The reason naxals are so successful last 2 decades is thanks to corrupt politicians who ruled and allowed them to grow and who refused to crush them as they sued naxals to win elections and used their help in illegal business from forest resources. The likes of Left Parties, Laloo, Mayawati, CON-gress, Soren, Mulayam etc. are chief culprits who kept their states backwards in these areas for decade, leached off poverty and backwardness to create votebanks bringing zero development and allowed naxals with their blessings to be used as a weapon whenever needed. Every time the security forces cam,e close to wiping them out, someone would suddenly call for ceasefire and talks and allow the terrorists recovery and regrouping time. Quite a lot of these netas men are hand in glove in illegal mafia activities like extortion with naxals in WB, UP and WB. In fact a lot of Govt projects in these areas are taxed by naxals from netas and Govt officials themselves. recently a neta and some officials were arrested for diverting money for officials to naxals. Unfortunately our security forces take orders by constitution under these very terrorist criminals called 'neta's ironically.....

[patriot]

by Bossbhai To sum up ... we bloody took about 25 yrs to kill a freakin petty thug like Veerappan for crying out loud. Thats how Gutless , spineless andcallous this nation is and this forum EXACTLY mirrors that .... the Sher-E-Phorum is well the leader of the pack. Any other self respecting ideology would have dealt with these scumbags 100s of yrs ago. Only we can look at this sort of savagery and say with a straight face that its still a holy ideology. That requires pussilamity by the metric-tons and we produce that in excess and we are actually proud of it !!

Bossbhai - Your post is in tangents and it seems you have absolutely no idea. You are atrociously wrong because you blame the people and nation but not the WIMPS that are the Indian politicians and the democratic setup. We have a pathetic political class, petty vote bank politics and " positive " secular discrimination. If you blame the nation because of the political class, you obviously have no clue. The Naxal issue is purely because of lack of development. Most of the Naxalwadis are adivaasis. Resources in their land are being exploited to the hilt and govt has not bothered about their social upliftment. This has forced them to take up arms - and they are being supported externally. There is a method to go about rooting out this crisis. If you think just going hammer and tongs on these people with full military might is the right way - then there is no point reasoning with you. We would be doing the same retarded thing that Pakistan is doing to it's people. Killing them. And all this causes collateral damage to one and only India, because it is an internal crisis. There is a carrot and stick approach to be adopted - which I hope happens soon. A full blown military attack would be the most retarded way of a solution because it would be killing people who have been left ignored by the govt for eternity. Even till date absolutely no development has reached these regions. Veerappan issue is purely a corruption issue where the local politicians took their share of his loot and allowed him to flourish. And Pakistan issue is a case of pathetic soft foreign policy. All 3 are different issues but all point to a single cause - Gutless, corrupt, callous and inept political class. When you have such a large majority illiterate population, a 20 % Muslim votebank and national leaders's in with ages 70's and 80's you will have a recipe for perfect failure of democracy to deliver on grounds of national security in the kind of neighbourhood that we have. Although it is very easy for you to be an armchair expert. No country or group would have the balls to fu.ck around with govt of India if we had an iron fisted leader like Narendra Modi leading a single party democratic set up. The other option would be a dictatorship. And the last and ( unconceivable ) option would be to ask 120 millon muslims to leave India. Please suggest what is up your alley. You have to blame the people administering the country NOT the people of the country - if you know the difference.

[patriot]

There isnt actually .... the politicians come from the same population pool ... if we produce gutless invertibrates by the millions ... gutless invertibrates is what you will get as our leaders.

Really ? Avg age of Indian is 24, what is the average age of a Indian policy and decision maker / politician ? About 75. Are you supposed to have the same mindset that you have as someone who is more than 2 generations older than you and mentally decrypted ? I see that you have dodged all the other points that I have made. If you still don't feel that democracy IS THE SINGLE BIGGEST CAUSE OF India's failure on national security and sovereignty with our secular and socio set up - as I have tried to explain above. Let us not argue further on this.

[patriot]

No. But we have been into this ivertibrate production business for 100s of yrs I didnt dodge just that it was inherent .... a predominantly gutless and un-principled nation will often run into the sort of problems that india faces. You can rationalize all you want but the truth is that the neighbourhood that we live in reqiires harsh measures to survive ... and the Adivasis arent the only deprived lot in India .... you put your finger on a random spot on the indian map and you will find someone that is being exploited. By nature we prefer to take the easiest route ... no hard yards .. only shortcuts ... I got fedup arguing with people here and have reduced my posts on politics quite a bit.

Yet, it is this "predominantly gutless" nation that has heroes who have displayed unmatchable valor in human history in the face of the most extreme diversity. Where soldiers 1000 times the no. of politicians in the country, have vanquished the enemy against all odds or have become martyrs. Think Kargil, where ill equipped soldiers fought an uphill battle ( literally) against a well entrenched and hidden enemy armed to the teeth and yet vanquished them. Think Battle of Longewala in 1971 were 120 odd Indian soldiers were able to ward off 2000 Pakistani soldiers for a whole 12 hours. Think 1965 war where an utterly ill equipped IAF took on PAF that was armed with elite US combat aircrafts and came out on tops. Think Hemant Karkare who took on terrorists head on and became a martyr. You saw how well equipped the Mumbai police was, right ? You know the history with MIGS aka flying coffins, right ? Our defence budget is 7 times Pakistan's. Yet at the time of war - our soldiers are almost always relatively poorly equipped - It is a documented fact. Who is too blame for the initial casualities - the " pusillanimous " jawans who die or the bastard corrupt and incompetent politicians ? We stationed 600,000 troops on the Kashmir front in 2002 to attack Pakistan after the attack on Parliament. Hundreds of the troops died in the harsh conditions there without firing a bullet , waiting endlessly for the govt of India's orders to invade Pakistan. Later they pulled out. Who is to blame ? Bossbhai - the problem is that people are fed up of arguing with you, instead of the other way around. Your arguments cut no logic, atleast you don't attempt to give it any logic, you just express your POV's with a " I know it all " attitude, but provide reasoning about it , when you do the reasoning makes no sense to anyone apart from you.

[EnterTheVoid]

Think Battle of Longewala in 1971 were 120 odd Indian soldiers were able to ward off 2000 Pakistani soldiers for a whole 12 hours. Think 1965 war where an utterly ill equipped IAF took on PAF that was armed with elite US combat aircrafts and came out on tops.

http://indiancricketfans.com/showthread.php?t=209899

[patriot]

We shouldnt even have been in that position in the first place if we werent a predominantly super soft nation ... think about it. What you say are examples of our nation acting when it has no other choice but to do so. This is not bravery this is callousness. There is no concept of long term geo-strategic policy to safeguard our interest even after being pillaged and raped countles no.of times. Even otherwise can you explain how this supposedly very brave country with a brave military looked on helplessly while the entire Hindu population evacuated the Valley ? How do you reconcile with the fact that we have been sheltering them in refugee camps for over 20 yrs ? Have you ever come across a country that is forced to run refugee camps for its own citizens that have been chased away from its own territories ? Keep in mind that this is nothing new has been happening for ages ... nobody wants to know about it though. My take is that we are like this wonly. Given our absolutely bloody history our political leadership should have been united on the case of National security. That word unity never figures in our dictionary. What also doesnt figure is the willingness to learn from history. That is hardly true ... look up my old debates ... I have the combined patience of the rest of the forum to explain my POV to even the most politically illeterate posters who have absolutely no clue whatsoever about what ROP is. What usually happens is people dont like to deal with the uncomfortable things .. which something nobody can do anything about.

Again you are beating down the same track endlessly and indirectly saying the same thing that I am alluding to - we are victims of a near perpetual pathetic political class that is focussed only on holding to the their seats , appeasing minorities at the cost of national security. I don't know if I can make it any simpler. Companies that tank because of poor leaders and visionaries or self serving CEOs and CFO's who are only concerned about their annual bonus - it doesn't make the thousands of employees of that company incompetent. Just because a Lehman or Enron or Satyam tanked because of poor leadership and dishonest top management - it doesn't make their extremely brilliant staff incompetent or inept. Similarly and unfortuntately INdia's democracy has had very few strong and authoritative personalities who's primary concern is national interests/security and not the long term interest of their political party. Indira Gandhi was one - the assault on Khalistan movement in 1984 was brutal. In the events followed by the Golden Temple massacre, Sikhs were brutally maimed in Delhi and Punjab and the Khalistan movement was trampled ruthlessly. Similarly the decision to cut Pakistan into 2 in 1971 . It takes that kind of strong leadership. We know what Narendra Modi orchestrated after the train attack on RSS Kar Sevaks in Gujarat. Gujarat is now the safest state in entire India, inspite having a huge minority population. We have not have any other leaders like Modi and Indira Gandhi in modern India - which is unfortunate. But it makes zilch sense of you to make a sweeping statement that is utterly falsehood.

And speaking of Islam ...even as of today we dont have a Plan A to counter the threat of Islam. Our plan is to keep it well fed and just hope that if we pretend that its a cudly cute harmless barbie doll it will end up like that one fine day.

Like I said you don't read the posts and say the same thing again and again and again. The threat of Islam is not much from within - it is from Pakistan enticing and misguiding largely unemployed and poor Muslim youth of India. What do you want us to do ? Attack the 120 million Muslims in India senselessly so that there is an unprecedented civil war ?

[patriot]

We shouldnt even have been in that position in the first place if we werent a predominantly super soft nation ... think about it. What you say are examples of our nation acting when it has no other choice but to do so. This is not bravery this is callousness. There is no concept of long term geo-strategic policy to safeguard our interest even after being pillaged and raped countles no.of times. Even otherwise can you explain how this supposedly very brave country with a brave military looked on helplessly while the entire Hindu population evacuated the Valley ? How do you reconcile with the fact that we have been sheltering them in refugee camps for over 20 yrs ? Have you ever come across a country that is forced to run refugee camps for its own citizens that have been chased away from its own territories ? Keep in mind that this is nothing new has been happening for ages ... nobody wants to know about it though. My take is that we are like this wonly. Given our absolutely bloody history our political leadership should have been united on the case of National security. That word unity never figures in our dictionary. What also doesnt figure is the willingness to learn from history. That is hardly true ... look up my old debates ... I have the combined patience of the rest of the forum to explain my POV to even the most politically illeterate posters who have absolutely no clue whatsoever about what ROP is. What usually happens is people dont like to deal with the uncomfortable things .. which something nobody can do anything about.

Again you are beating down the same track endlessly and indirectly saying the same thing that I am alluding to - we are victims of a near perpetual pathetic political class that is focussed only on holding to the their seats , appeasing minorities at the cost of national security. I don't know if I can make it any simpler. Companies that tank because of poor leaders and visionaries or self serving CEOs and CFO's who are only concerned about their annual bonus - it doesn't make the thousands of employees of that company incompetent. Just because a Lehman or Enron or Satyam tanked because of poor leadership and dishonest top management - it doesn't make their extremely brilliant staff incompetent or inept. Similarly and unfortuntately INdia's democracy has had very few strong and authoritative personalities who's primary concern is national interests/security and not the long term interest of their political party. Indira Gandhi was one - the assault on Khalistan movement in 1984 was brutal. In the events followed by the Golden Temple massacre, Sikhs were brutally maimed in Delhi and Punjab and the Khalistan movement was trampled ruthlessly. Similarly the decision to cut Pakistan into 2 in 1971 . It takes that kind of strong leadership. We know what Narendra Modi orchestrated after the train attack on RSS Kar Sevaks in Gujarat. Gujarat is now the safest state in entire India, inspite having a huge minority population. We have not have any other leaders like Modi and Indira Gandhi in modern India - which is unfortunate. But it makes zilch sense of you to make a sweeping statement that is utterly falsehood.

And speaking of Islam ...even as of today we dont have a Plan A to counter the threat of Islam. Our plan is to keep it well fed and just hope that if we pretend that its a cudly cute harmless barbie doll it will end up like that one fine day.

Like I said you don't read the posts and say the same thing again and again and again. The threat of Islam is not much from within - it is from Pakistan enticing and misguiding largely unemployed and poor Muslim youth of India. What do you want us to do ? Attack the 120 million Muslims in India senselessly so that there is an unprecedented civil war ?

[someone]

IG was a very rare exception and totally un-Indian ... Modi wont even get anywhere close to the central govt ... he can make Gujrat a super state but our gutless janta will not let him get anywhere close to the Dilli. Advani was also a firebrand administrator ... the man did not even get a chance. My logic is simple .... if a nation is stupid enough to vote Congress into power for decades ... we probably deserve what happens to us as a result of that. No point whinging.

Probably one of the big reason is why congress means is that not everyone goes to vote, Hindus rarely go to vote and only talk about how bad our country is unlike some other community who know the value of vote and will definitely vote for the party who promises to only them free food, quota ....

[Texy]

Probably one of the big reason is why congress means is that not everyone goes to vote' date=' Hindus rarely go to vote and only talk about how bad our country is unlike some other community who know the value of vote and will definitely vote for the party who promises to only them free food, quota ....[/quote'] very well said! 100% agree

[The Outsider]

Since the Sher-E-Phorum decided to hit the exit as is his style .... lets dissect his latest theory on Islam violence and why we react to it differently ... Islam has been directly responsible for raping and pillaging Indian subcontinent since circa 800AD ... since then the original dharmic religions (Hinduism and its offshoots) have been on the run and have been systematically wiped out from a large chunk of Indian Subcontinent. This continues even today and the latest in the line of "safayi" is Kashmir. Now despite all this the Sher-e-Phorum and his herd firmly believes that ROP is truly ROP. Sometime back he even announced that Peace had returned to Kashmir ! This sort of idiotry can only happen in India. We produce a disproportionately lage numbers of such mahanubhavs who will simply lie thru their teeth and worse even put it into practice by voting governments who have a loooong and proven track record in mollycodling such evil. The last instance occured just about a year ago literally months after yet another massacre by guess who... the peace monks corps from ROP. This is the sort of "reaction" ( if you can call it that ) that happens to Islamic violence... and even then unless its dramatic and the casualty list long nothing concrete really comes out of the reaction in anycase. We will be back to playing kirkut with these mofos and the Leftwing nuts will get into a group orgy at Wagah .. candlelights and all. Heck few months ago there was a blast in Pune anyone even remember that ? who gives a flying phuck. This is the sort of "bravado" that India is well known for and the Maoists are the latest who have picked up that scent . They have summed up the situation quite well ... they know nobody has the balls to come after them for decades .. not till they carve out a Mao-isthan right smack in the middle of the country ... Even then they figure they stand good chance of playing kirkut with Indya. To sum up ... we bloody took about 25 yrs to kill a freakin petty thug like Veerappan for crying out loud. Thats how Gutless , spineless andcallous this nation is and this forum EXACTLY mirrors that .... the Sher-E-Phorum is well the leader of the pack. Any other self respecting ideology would have dealt with these scumbags 100s of yrs ago. Only we can look at this sort of savagery and say with a straight face that its still a holy ideology. That requires pussilamity by the metric-tons and we produce that in excess and we are actually proud of it !!

A clown, who probably does not even have an Indian passport anymore, is sitting behind a computer somewhere in cozy Amreeki suburbs and lecturing about courage and guts. :hysterical::hysterical:

[patriot]

IG was a very rare exception and totally un-Indian ... Modi wont even get anywhere close to the central govt ... he can make Gujrat a super state but our gutless janta will not let him get anywhere close to the Dilli. Advani was also a firebrand administrator ... the man did not even get a chance. My logic is simple .... if a nation is stupid enough to vote Congress into power for decades ... we probably deserve what happens to us as a result of that. No point whinging.

That is absolute non sense. What exactly has " firebrand " Advani achieved in all his years as Home Minister and Deputy PM in the NDA sarkar , apart from " firebrand " speeches. The man is a senile fool with no vision and strategy for the party. The idiot was the brainchild behind the India shining election campaign spending hundreds of crores ,when such Naxalwad was spreading like wild fire. The moron also thought the best form of Indian Muslim appeasement to win votes is to go to Pakistan and praise Jinnah's secular credentials. The parliament attack ( which I think is a way bigger attack than the Mumbai incident ) happened under the " firebrand " Advani's govt in 2001. What exactly did it result in ? 6 lakh troops were stationed in war positions and the army kept waiting for the " firebrand" Advani and NDA to give orders - that never came for a year. And the troops eventually pulled out. I hate the Congress' votebank politics- but at least they have delivered FAR better on the economic front. There is a " TINA " factor associated with Congress. The BJP is only good at talking the talk. The Congress is unfortunately forced to play votebank politics because of BJP's retarded communal agenda that has yielded zilch. And they have not delivered on the development side. If there was no right wing Hindu party like BJP and Shiv Sena - and congress was the single largest party that won with majority and without coalition - it would have taken the menace of Muslim aggression head on. The existence of BJP forces communal politics -- because there is a strong 120 million Muslim votebank. When BJP was not even born COngress crushed the Sikh movement and crushed East Pakistan. The only no -nonsense administrator in BJP is Narendra Modi - he has given a crushing reply to the aggressive minority and has had an inclusive development program in Gujarat - including THAT minority. That is the carrot and stick approach that is required. You will never here Muslims in Gujrat say that they are being ignored by the state govt. Contrast this with that chewtiya Bal Thackeray and his corrupt and incompetent Sena that believed that only attacking Muslims was good enough to come back to power in Mumbai and Maharashtra. Since he has not delviered AT ALL in development, even the right wing Hindus in Maharashtra have started favoring Congress. Bottom line is INdia's multi party democratic set up is utterly utterly flawed and is the BANE of our many problems. The days of direct full scale war are over since the early 90's - it is not going to happen even with the most " firebrand " head of state for INdia. Even an aggressive country like China does not have the balls to militarily take over a puny " renegade " province like Taiwan which now has independent political ties with over 100 countries. The only way is to proxy wage which I think we are doing in Pakistan. It is very easy for you to make non sensical comments about " gutless " India, when it is the leadership of the country that is actually pathetic and the democratic system flawed. Bossbhai, you unfortunately have only half baked knowledge about everything and have never come up with solutions like the Plan A and Plan B that you were talking about. Please do let me know what those plans and their ramifications.