kumble_rocks Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 Boy , For a moment , I thought it was DR talking :hic: :hic: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MB11z3ckcdw&eurl= Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dada_rocks Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 Re: Radical Islam - Must see for DR, Bheem etc as doc wud say u are delivering coal to newcastle :lmao: watch this http://youtube.com/watch?v=N7R_YZiRlPs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 Re: Radical Islam - Must see for DR, Bheem etc I can understand your viewpoint but it won't serve any purpose on a website that specializes in sports. I suggest you why not start a website like the faithfreedom.org or something if you feel so strongly about it? I'm sure you will be able to educate a lot of guys about the potential problems that is just ticking everywhere right now. You will only have CC debating this issues with you for over 50 pages without a much arrived conclusion over here :hic: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 Re: Radical Islam - Must see for DR, Bheem etc I say there is nothing wrong in speaking your mind here too but it sure will serve better if say the likes of DR and you envisaged on a website like faithfreedom. You can represent your views better with no holds and also you will encounter more like minded people that will help in this excercise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veer Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 Re: Radical Islam - Must see for DR, Bheem etc interesting point that lady is making there at the end that may be half of those muslims are not radical... but they dont count because they dont speak out against redicals.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CC1981 Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 Re: Radical Islam - Must see for DR, Bheem etc A mass awareness to this nonsense is the only hope out of this evil. Agreed 1000%. Which is why i bother with you in the first place. What will not be a solution to this 'evil', is your idea of booting all indian muslims out of india or starting to meddle in pakistan/bangladesh's affair to try and secure our nation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kumble_rocks Posted February 12, 2007 Author Share Posted February 12, 2007 Re: Radical Islam - Must see for DR, Bheem etc A mass awareness to this nonsense is the only hope out of this evil. It will take time ... a helluva lot of it ... but you gotta be persistent and give it a try. Also, we need a mass awareness on how the west helped form the Taliban , how the west helped the Mujahideen against Soviet , How the west supported the saudi which propogates most of this islamic hatred , how the west supported Bin laden , how the west supported muslim pakistan against majority hindu india etc. I don't think anybody can deny the fact that Islam is being radicalized , the West kept quiet before , the so called moderate muslims always keep quiet when it comes to their brethren. Would you unequivocally criticize the west for supporting this beast called mujahideen or Saudi/Pak axis which is the root cause of the radicalization/terrorism ? I am not a big fan of Islam or West , but even you have to admit that West is playing ball only now when it got attacked. The same West kept quiet when India was being victimized by these radical muslims all these years. I would agree with you one fundamental thing . IMO, Hinduism is a far better religion then Islam as it is being practised in the Middle East. We give much more freedom to these guys then what they will ever give . Also, as I have always stated before , at least you and DR are willing to debate your position. I am begining to get the feeling that Muslim posters are just scared to debate you both . What are they fearing is a million dollar question that they only can answer. In fact DR throw a open gauntlet at them for debate and looks like they just chickened out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kumble_rocks Posted February 12, 2007 Author Share Posted February 12, 2007 Re: Radical Islam - Must see for DR, Bheem etc Boy , this lady Brigitte Gabriel sounds like female version of Dada Rocks ! :hic: :hic: Check out her other videos in Youtube Part I to 8. http://youtube.com/watch?v=-8fa9yKQeTY She certainly hates Islam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CC1981 Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 Re: Radical Islam - Must see for DR, Bheem etc I am begining to get the feeling that Muslim posters are just scared to debate you both . Not scared- they are probably disgusted with all the hatred. The tone adopted by d_r and bheembhai are confrontational and anger-ridden instead of understanding and teacher-like. Put yourself in the position of a muslim and imagine how you'd react/feel to the way D_R and bheembhai preach. Its may be that what they speak of is meritorious but the tone adopted would instantly negate the purpose of a discourse in the first place. Nobody gets converted or convinced by people who treat you like an enemy. Regardless of what interpretations and 'history' these gents come up with, the average muslim would turn around and either ignore them or worse, feel the hatred, meet hatred with hatred and look for reasons to channel that angst in destructive means. Its precisely the reason we find christian protestant missionaries to be annoying, in your face and retarded. Only thing is, these gents don't realize that they probably come off the same to the audience they are 'trying to reform'. I am willing to bet that these gents realize this, which is why this behaviour of their's probably does not spill over to their real lives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Tendulkar Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 Re: Radical Islam - Must see for DR, Bheem etc Muslims are outraged over any criticism of their religion/cult. DR and bheem in main state the reality of islam. This makes it difficult for muslims to respond as how can you defend the indefensible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CC1981 Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 Re: Radical Islam - Must see for DR, Bheem etc Muslims are outraged over any criticism of their religion/cult Not all. One of my best friends happens to be a syrian muslim with whom i often debate Islam in a critical way. He doesnt call me infidel or goes running to the local mosque for a fatwa on my head. Its all about attitude and how you communicate through skillful means. DR and bheem in main state the reality of islam. They do lot more than just state the reality of islam- they attack islam with bonafide malice towards it and its practitioners. Assume for a minute that you did something wrong - would you respond favourably towards me if i attack you, calling you names and rubbing your nose in it ? Or do you think that you may respond better if i point out your error in a conciliatory fashion without going all jihadi on you ? Much of the same psychology applies here. Nobody is gonna bother with hatemongerers simply because its way too abrasive to deal with them. Change of mind comes only through open discourse. Fundamental tenet of open discourse is the possibility of either side listening to what the opposite has got to say. I am not gonna state my case to you if i believe that your mind is already made up and i can't get you to see any other way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Tendulkar Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 Re: Radical Islam - Must see for DR, Bheem etc Well go to saudi arabi or pakistan. Then go on to the streets and say " there are a few things with islam i disagree with and point them out in poilte manner". You would be lynched. Forget the public, the law of the land will mean you will be arrested and convicted with probable death sentence. Your mate is the exception not the rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 Re: Radical Islam - Must see for DR, Bheem etc I won't call DR and the rest as hate mongers but I take people by face value not by what religion they follow. I have to be honest I don't have friends that practice islam but I have come across a couple and I haven't seen anything different in them than say my mates around me. From what I gather DR, Bheem are not fans of Islam and neither me. I'm not aggressively campaigning against it on a daily basis but you would think couple of them here surely are. Maybe they are more affected than me in their surroundings on a daily basis perhaps??? Anyways I don't suggest to anyone to campaign against anything and if they want to then they have to find the right means. The right means certainly is not a cricket forum :hic: as it serves absolutely no purpose in my opinion stroking each other opinion and lauding it. Over it if you guys want to carry on convincing each other of the ill falls of a particular religion I would have no problems with that too. The best for you fellas to take this up is on religious forums where there are people knowledgeable enough to understand this. My question to fella posters is how many of you truly are being affected by this. I don't want to know what is happening in Middle East or Afgan but just want to know how many of you guys are being affected by this on a day to day basis? I have to say I'm not at all affected, not once have I been affected by this religion so I'm not that aggressive against this religion. I have said many times and I'll say again all religions are a waste of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Tendulkar Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 Re: Radical Islam - Must see for DR, Bheem etc In the UK we are effected by it by them launching jehad killing sprees and campaignaing for islamic law and curbs on freedom of speech. In the india were I travel often and have many family and friends. We are constantly being killed by islamic terrorism. To many to list. So yes i am effected directly by islam and its intolerance and violence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 Re: Radical Islam - Must see for DR, Bheem etc I also think a lot of debates here just concentrate on pointing out shortcomings in a certain religion (I agree the short comings are glaring). The practices of the said religion are horrific and voilent. That said KR raises an interesting question why don't people debate West's hand in helping these radicals in the first place. Why doesn't anyone open a thread about the support Bin Laden, Saddam, Talibans and the rest received? I'm sure there are so many instances of West siding with thugs in the past but I've never see one single thread dedicated to that one. Don't we need a balanced view on all episodes from all parties here and not just concentrate on Islam? Pakistan that shields a lot of terrorists is a political ally of US of A. Then why do anyone bother pay taxes to a country that simply rolls out heaps of funds to the country that shelters terrorists? Middle East is one of the recepient of huge funds from US of A still. Why are we blind folded about anything that US of A does but are more than happy to point out evils in a religion? Shouldn't we be pointing out issues on a regular basis caused by both sides? I would certainly like to hear a balanced views on both the culprits. One does it daringly for religous causes and the other for political and selfish causes. Both are terrible in their own rights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CC1981 Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 Re: Radical Islam - Must see for DR, Bheem etc You would be lynched. Yes i know. I've lived in the middle east before. But how does taking a confrontational attitude help ? :shrug: Your mate is the exception not the rule. Actually no, my mate is the rule, not exception : People do not do intensely personal things like detailed theological debates with strangers - they do it with friends and family members. If you go denouncing any religion up front, it'll piss people off in any religion. Some religions will have more zealots than others responding with violence but every religion will respond with violence. A confrontational attitude never got anyone to change their minds on the matter of religion with the intent to debate. -------------------------- why don't people debate West's hand in helping these radicals in the first place. Actually it is one of *the* hot topics of discussions in the west- most of my mates are white people (well duh-i live in canada!) and its a very frequent conversation amongst them. However, most newly-arrived-desis-to-the-west take the simpleton 'bad = islam. good = who fights islam = america = america is good' approach. Most are unaware of the magnitude of sinister and 'evil empire' syndrome America has and i must admit, i was completely oblivious to it before i made a few Arts friends at college. but just want to know how many of you guys are being affected by this on a day to day basis? I am not affected but my father lives in the middle east and will be there for the next 4-5 years atleast and so i have the potential to be greatly affected if the proverbial shyte hits the fan. As a result, i 'keep an eye on the cooking pot'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Tendulkar Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 Re: Radical Islam - Must see for DR, Bheem etc The problem is islam needs no room for negotiation or flexibility in its rules. And islamic countries seem to adopt islamic rules to the letter. Thus if a muslim in islamic country declares he is converting to another religion he will be arrested and probably sentenced to death. This death will also have overwhelming public support. Also you said confrontational. Notice how i said in a polite but factual manner criticising islam. Thus if you went on the streets of islamic country and tried to reason with them in some short comings of islam(all religions have short comings). You will be arrested. How can you justify this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CC1981 Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 Re: Radical Islam - Must see for DR, Bheem etc How can you justify this? Arrey baba i am not justifying this - i am saying that having a confrontational attitude towards debating them is not gonna help either !!!! It is obvious that in a faith as draconian as Islam,where rejection of it is meted by death ( ideally speaking!), cannot be reformed by we seeking to debate them in a confrontational attitude. Just like how all those christian missionaries denigrating hinduism by using caste system and what not don't really help the problem of caste system. When you go in all guns blazing, its war. War is not about right or wrong, the point of war is to win. In a 'must win' atmosphere created by mutual hostile intent, ego takes over and nobody is gonna get their points through. Only way would be to make genuine friends amongst them and then have dialogues with them over it. Me and my buddy have been over it for over 7 years (though not much for the last 2 years or so) and while he is still a muslim, he considers himself different enough to not go to mosques and associate with the ummah. Sorry, i dont want this to sound sanctimonious- but i just don't see the point of having a quarrelsome attitude - how many times have you seen your parents fight as a kid and how often right in the middle of the fight did your mother or father say 'okay okay fine. i bolloxed up. my fault. i am sorry' ?? Its either never happened or so rare that you can count it on one hand. But the dispute is always resolved AFTER the fight, isnt it ? when mom and dad get talking ? Similar situation applies here. The kind of attacks some people engage against muslims here, propose the kind of solutions they propose,( some posters think that all indian muslims should be kicked out of india!) etc. would cause one to just stay the hell away and secretly despise these characters. A lot similar to some fundie right wing white superiorist party leader talking against colored people in hateful terms. Would you, as a brown man, try to engage this person for legitimate debate ? I don't think so! Hope i've given enough examples. Anyways, its time for me to hit the sack. gnite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dhondy Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 Re: Radical Islam - Must see for DR, Bheem etc I think these debates are very important. Religion is a burning issue right now, and people want to discuss it. I have learnt a lot through these threads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 Re: Radical Islam - Must see for DR, Bheem etc I think these debates are very important. Religion is a burning issue right now, and people want to discuss it. Dhondy, I honestly think such debates are retarded. It would be one thing if such debates happened once in a while. Then perhaps we could have a lengthy debate possibly(though I am being optimistic here) reaching conclusion of some sorts. But look up our General Section and you will see that not only do the Religious Debates get the maximum hits(both views and pages) but that there are generally more religious threads than any other kind. To make matters worse all these religious threads end up, directly or indirectly, aiming at one religion. A few days back I wrote within one such thread and by the time I got a chance to reply(matter of few hours) the thread had gone from perhaps second to fourth page, thanks to gazillion of replies. Of course I did not bother to reply again. Now if you surfing the web and came across a site littered with such post what impression would you make of the site? Speaking for myself I would like to see General Discussions filled with some original articles(remember your 5 pm?), possibly some about Hindi movies(milestones, great lyricist, music directors etc etc or even contemprory for that matter), maybe some memories of our own past so fellow posters can co-relate, some naughty nok-jhonk kind of articles, not to mention Current Affairs and the likes. I agree some people have certain way of thinking and all powers to them, maybe they are right and I am wrong whon knows, but we need to also step back and not be shoving the same think down everyone's throat everyday, else how different is it to that poster who keeps talking only about VVS. xxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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