yoda Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 Re: Fire sweeps through Indian train (64+ dead) Terrible tragedy. Time for India to start spending more on infrastructure including upgrading of train stations to closed structures so that additional security measures can be put in place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birbal3 Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 Re: Fire sweeps through Indian train (64+ dead) What about all the Muslims getting BUTCHERED in Pakistan daily? From Airport, to Mariott, to Courts to Mosques... Guess Bal Thackrey is responsible for that too? :tired: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 Re: Fire sweeps through Indian train (64+ dead) What about all the Muslims getting BUTCHERED in Pakistan daily? From Airport, to Mariott, to Courts to Mosques... Guess Bal Thackrey is responsible for that too? :tired: Snide and useless remarks. How is it related to the thread here? At the end of the day the Government of India has the responsibility for the lives of people within its borders. End of the story. xx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kabira Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 Re: Fire sweeps through Indian train (64+ dead) >How is it related to the thread here? At the end of the day the Government of India has the responsibility for the lives of people within its borders. it does have responsibility. But dont forget its not the people or any organization we are fighting against..Fight is against an "IDEA" and "BELIEF"... These crazy ppl live within our society and few of our own countrymen who are follower of that IDEA, play havoc..and Govt. as usual can do jack sh.it...because if they try to do anything...Human Rights will interfere...there will be movies made on this... Remember Govt. is representative of ppl, if Govt. is $hit so are all citizens.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 Re: Fire sweeps through Indian train (64+ dead) it does have responsibility. But dont forget its not the people or any organization we are fighting against..Fight is against an "IDEA" and "BELIEF"... Disagreed completely. By every accounts coming out - BBC, CNN, Indian news media, Pakistani media - there was Security lapse. Whether you check out OUTLOOK or REDIFF you would have people say the same thing - "anyone could get inside without being searched". That such a lapse happens on a train that carries passenger to and from another country which ismentioned as a common denominator in all activities on Indian side of the border speaks volume of India's security method(or lapse of it). It is not that terrorists breached a high secured area or anything. They walked in, planted the bombs and got away..cos they could do so with ease. So why should I blame anyone else except Indian Security Agencies? xxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birbal3 Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 Re: Fire sweeps through Indian train (64+ dead) There is often some minimum of security in Indian railways...but on a system which moves 20 million people a day... some lapses are always possible... What about the London Subway or Madrid tRains... were there lapses there? Of course there were...but you have to balance a POLICE State and total lack of privacy and freedom with security... Since the train carried pakistanis the Govt probably figured the Pakistani terrorists wouldn't target it... But after the suicide attacks IN Paksitan...they should have known better... Lurker.. learn to connect the dots...my boy.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kabira Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 Re: Fire sweeps through Indian train (64+ dead) >Whether you check out OUTLOOK or REDIFF you would have people say the same thing - "anyone could get inside without being searched". That such a lapse happens on a train that carries passenger to and from another country which ismentioned as a common denominator in all activities on Indian side of the border speaks volume of India's security method(or lapse of it). similar lapses happend in usa, the most powerful country... may be the criminals were one of the passenger..what would you do in that case? Citizens are as much responsible as Govt. security..they cant work on their own..I am sure some local ppl helped sabotagers in this case..and lot of ppl (innocent but championing same belief) knew about this..but they kept it mum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Tendulkar Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 Re: Fire sweeps through Indian train (64+ dead) Lurker do you live in the real world. How can you stop muslim lunatics blowing themselves on a train. Intelligence can only get you so much, some are bound to slip through the net. In London I travelled on train with big suitcase. I could have put bombs in it and blow up 100 people. Stop blaming the indian govt for something which is nigh on impossible to stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 Re: Fire sweeps through Indian train (64+ dead) similar lapses happend in usa, the most powerful country... Sorry that doesnt mean anything. Such lapses never happen in China for example. Or Japan. Or Russia..or even Pakistan for that matter. Like it or not, there has not been a blast on Pakistani side of the border in Samjhauta Express. Now you can deny it or simply accept it as a huge security embarassment for India. I am willing to do the latter here. may be the criminals were one of the passenger..what would you do in that case? Citizens are as much responsible as Govt. security..they cant work on their own..I am sure some local ppl helped sabotagers in this case..and lot of ppl (innocent but championing same belief) knew about this..but they kept it mum Again that does not do anyone any good. Yes common passengers can, and should, help Security personnel. And people have their own roles to play in turning a blind eye. But why is it that such a line of argument is almost always brought up when there is a terrorist incident? More so when it includes Pakistan somehow? I mean when was the last time anyone argued that Mumbaikars are as much responsible for the growth of Dawood, Karim Lala, Yousuf Pathans etc? xxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kabira Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 Re: Fire sweeps through Indian train (64+ dead) >I mean when was the last time anyone argued that Mumbaikars are as much responsible for the growth of Dawood, Karim Lala, Yousuf Pathans etc? I agree with that completely.. >Like it or not, there has not been a blast on Pakistani side of the border in Samjhauta Express. Now you can deny it or simply accept it as a huge security embarassment for India. I am willing to do the latter here. yes. its embarassment for India..I agree. But you are putting 100% blame on security..which is not practical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 Re: Fire sweeps through Indian train (64+ dead) FFS ... try to be practical .... what kind of security can you provide in a ground transport system that moves millions .... ? You want railways to employ 10 million cops with AK57 ? Hmmm millions? And you tell me to be practical? BB you didnt do your homework. The train was pulling in less than a 1000 people, so out goes that million cops with AK57 calculation. I dont think you would need even 100 trained personnel to defend 1000 people. This is no train plying through Gaya-Patna that Security is not of concern here. This is the train that carries people across the border everyday. Such is the security sensitivity regarding this train that it is almost always the first sacrifical lamb in Indo-Pak rhetorics. Buses and aeroplanes end up plying between two countries but it is Samjhauta Express that takes the hit almost every time. And it is almost always the last thing to get started. In fact I would go on and say that the relation between India-Pakistan can be judged by whether this train is running or not. Bottomline, this train is vital. Not only to Indian(and Pakistani) passengers but also for the South Asian polity. And if India fails to do its duty to secure it, it needs to be brought up. Try to identify the real culprits and deal with them .... This beating around the bush when it comes to this Islamic nonsense will not get us anywhere. Sorry thats rhetoric. With all due respect I do not have time for them. xxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parth Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 Re: Fire sweeps through Indian train (64+ dead) Were loads injured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Tendulkar Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 Re: Fire sweeps through Indian train (64+ dead) Russia has many muslim terrorist acts from thos chechen lunatics. China is a commy state so not fair comparison unless you want to turn us in to commy country Pak has many bombings look at NZ cricket team as example As for japan quite easy to see islamic nutters their and monitor them as they usually look quite different to the indegenious pop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoda Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 Re: Fire sweeps through Indian train (64+ dead) Yes, we have to fight terrorism. Yes, ONE of the ways to fight terrorism is to enhance security. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kabira Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 Re: Fire sweeps through Indian train (64+ dead) Shouldnt we have same security for all trains passing Godhra (mini pakistan)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 Re: Fire sweeps through Indian train (64+ dead) you may not know this ... the Railways operates throughout India and the Samjauta express is not the only train that railways operate ..... and neother is it the only train that militants have blown up in the past. I know that very well. Thanks much. But it seems you do not realize the importance of this train. Please reread my previous post over why Samjhauta Express needs lot more Security than a Patna-Gaya Passenger train. On one hand we are more than happy to shout everyday that all terrorist camps be closed in Pakistan. On the other hand we can not even claim to Secure a train(if I read you right) within our own borders. If we can not handle the Security of such a vital train why let it ply at all? I say close it down but also be willing to concede that it was done since India was incapable of Security it. No point in putting the blame on others when you can not do your own job really. xxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kabira Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 Re: Fire sweeps through Indian train (64+ dead) >On one hand we are more than happy to shout everyday that all terrorist camps be closed in Pakistan. On the other hand we can not even claim to Secure a train(if I read you right) within our own borders. Security of our train is directly related to PoK training camps..so those camps should be closed to make it easy.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CC1981 Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 Re: Fire sweeps through Indian train (64+ dead) Lurkerjee, one advice, when you talk to some folks here, its jingoism supercharged. Imply that it is India's fault for having such pathetic security that nobody even checks your baggage for an international journey ( WTF- EVERY COUNTRY i know of checks international passengers in all form-land,sea and air, especially if through mass transportaion means) and you are at fault for questioning mother India. As far as i am concerned, India is atleast 50% to blame for this and should pay compensation : There is zero excuse for not having any security check when a publicly registered vehicle is crossing international borders. some of the EU states still do security checks in their trains/planes when its international trips and those EU states are at very good terms with each other. Nevermind a train or plane crossing into Russia. The issue is not about policing every train, the issue is of following the simple and obvious logic of securing transportation and safety while entering or exiting the country, that every sane country follows !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dhondy Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 Re: Fire sweeps through Indian train (64+ dead) Interesting debate. I wonder whether the inward bound trains, i.e. from Pakistan, are subject to security checks to filter out terrorists, ISI plants and such? I'd wager that they are. Clearly, then, India looks after its own interests. I'd also suggest that Pakistan mounts similar security checks on disembarking passengers from India at the other end. I have no factual proof of this at all, but there could be a reciprocal arrangement between the two countries to this effect- I keep out your swine, and you keep out ours. The terrorists expolited this to the hilt. Nobody would have conceived that a train leaving India would be subject to a terror attack on Indian soil, purportedly by Islamic extremists based in Pakistan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CC1981 Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 Re: Fire sweeps through Indian train (64+ dead) wtf. So now i am a jihadist for pointing out that it is CATEGORICALLY an Indian government fackup for not having any security check on international trains! I dunno why the hell did you give Mumbai-Paarle train and security there as an example. Its common knowledge that every country- even countries with very very good relations like the US and Canada or Italy and Switzerland- check baggage if the train/bus/plane is crossing the international border. They check baggage in channel tunnel too. That is standard procedure and it was India's fault for not following it. I don't care if the dead were pakistanis or Indians or mongolians- they were people who didn't deserve to die because our government facked up the security which most other countries would've provided. It is a standard rule of thumb that India failed to follow and there is no if and or buts to this - India is responsible. As per the rest of your comment- yes, i hold my culture to higher standards. Dunno what kind of household you grew up under but in mine, we always expected a little bit 'extra' from our near and dear ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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