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China Runs Circles Around India In Basic Science


Birbal3

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Re: China Runs Circles Around India In Basic Science Only thing I see missing from that article is that lots of Indians go to get their basic undergraduate and graduate science education to USA... and many of them do make contributions to India... down the line... Of course they also make HUGE contributions to USA first...

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Re: China Runs Circles Around India In Basic Science Actually this is just what i have been crying hoarse about for the past ten years! we have terrific institutions for awarding undergraduate degrees, and quite frankly when you choose the best 3000 form 2 million applicants, you are quite bound to select the best and the brightest. however, the good news ends there. we have negligible facilities and opportunities for awarding higher degrees such as a masters or a ph.d. and its the research conducted in procurement of these degrees that fuels the economy for the harbingers of technology cannot be undergraduate students working 8-5 jobs in information technology! The was an article in fortune magazine in September 2005 which gave a rather candid comparison between indian, china and the united states. and while it complimented india and china for their rampant growth, it was quick to point out that while india awarded about 100 odd Ph.D.(s) in the year 2004-2005, the figure for China was close to 1200 (up from 900 the previous year) and that for the united states had plunged from 1800 to about 1500 odd. the author remarked that in order to maintain its economic superiority, united states needed to concentrate on conducting top notch research for form this research would arise marketable ideas which would lead to the creation of new industries, employment for skilled labor and eventually profits and more tax revenue. and quite unfortunately, the reverse is happening in the united states. they recently (or atleast the president vetoes a plan to conduct state sponsored stem cell research) renounced an opportunity to lead the pack in stem cell research which would have undoubtedly created a huge industry in the regeneration and replacement of damaged human tissue and organs. on the other hand, china is pumping money into its universities. funding for more Ph.D.(s) is readily available and as a result, the number of students migrating form china to united states in pursuit of higher education has declined. as i said in another thread... we are sitting on top of our revenue and doing zilch! we need to spend that money, and not on stupid vote making programs (the guaranteed employment program which is a total fracking farce) and certainly not on defense (especially not on procurement of russian made planes, if you must adopt a policy of military keynesianism, promote heavy industries at home!).

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Re: China Runs Circles Around India In Basic Science

Only thing I see missing from that article is that lots of Indians go to get their basic undergraduate and graduate science education to USA... and many of them do make contributions to India... down the line... Of course they also make HUGE contributions to USA first...
actually indians who seek higher education in the united states fuel industries there with their research and new ideas, which then later down the line promote industry in india. most economists feel that the world needs to enter a balance where united states and the western european nations needs to lead the pack in research and new technologies, whereas china and india should serve as the powerhouses for mass manufacturing since they are both abundantly gifted with cheap, skilled labor.
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Re: China Runs Circles Around India In Basic Science Number of Phds I could care less about, output matters. Pakistan president last year after finding that india alone produces more phd and research than combined islamic state aroudn the world has gone on over drive and today professors in Karachi university has 20 + phd students enrolled under them. If Hoodboy one ofthe very few name in the field of education research from pakistan is to be belieevd hmajority fo those phds are not good enough for even a bachelor's degree. So mere number of PhDs doesn't insure betetr health of higher education. U are right about one thing IIT certainly is a world class under-grad churning institute, nothing more nothing less. See I have been hearing the soundbites about expansion of iit since last five years , there is buzz over one being established in Bihar too. There is buzz over R/D budget of these institutes to be increased. But nothing so far has happened. In India things move at indian pace. Another thign chinese are paying PhDs from westesr universities close to 60-70 K US $ and thereby afind no problme in attracting people. I am not expecting any such thign to happen at leasn de-chain the insititutes from govt regulations and rest assured u will get faculties and won;t even have to fund. Our idiocy has time and again benefited China directly. motorola came with offer of establishing an IC fabrication facility meaning investment in range of ten of billions and not to mention a prmanent tie. it took us forever to pin-point land and formalize acquisitions, result was the foundary got established in China. Well communism does have its virtues. Whatever reasearch u are seeing today is despite the govt apathy. One of my colleague here freqents peking university as a visiting professor, was talking to him yesterady about facilitied available. Apparently they have better facility than here in our industrial research facility in canada. :hail: Chinese Pm on his last india visit was more interested in IT industry and our famed iit than talking with idiots masquerading as politicians. These guys are on mission and if we want to compete with them this chalta hai attitude of govt of India will have to go.

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Re: China Runs Circles Around India In Basic Science

Maybe we should start brushing up on Mandarin... our children almost certainly will need to...
Yeah classes teaching mandarin are springing up a lot in India. My girlfriend who'z family's got a business dealing with chinese exports is brushing up on it, and tells me lotsa indian businesspeople are learning it. That's the good thing about desis though.. we're quick learners :hmph:
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Re: China Runs Circles Around India In Basic Science

Maybe we should start brushing up on Mandarin... our children almost certainly will need to...
Yeah classes teaching mandarin are springing up a lot in India. My girlfriend who'z family's got a business dealing with chinese exports is brushing up on it, and tells me lotsa indian businesspeople are learning it. That's the good thing about desis though.. we're quick learners :hmph:
if u have a cursory glance over human geography map india is concistently shown as regin with extra-ordinary brain power.. so I am not at all susprised over our ability to learn thing pretty fast.. BTW chinese language has charcters runing in well over 3000 so it's not going to be an easy task
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Re: China Runs Circles Around India In Basic Science "extra-ordinary brain power" I call Bullshit on that.What the hell does brain power means?Iq? India has a below avg IQ..Common sense? Pls.....Education? Yeah right.. The only thing goin for India is the number of ppl with so called science degrees.. Lets take TN for example (cos i grew up thr and was part of the education system). I went to a good school and thank god that particular school was more worried about what you learn and how you learn it and not how high you can get.. But unfortunately how intelligent you are never mattered in the 12th grade system. The final exam basically depends on how much you can memorize and rarely on practical or reasoning basis. The only schools which takes you for actual intelligence are less than 20. Maybe 30. 30 schools(with its own quota systems to let lesser minds into it) in a country with a billion ppl. Other Engineering/Science/Business schools have to very little basic requirement to hand out degrees. What we are left with are millions with very basic working knowledge of anything. Just compare a community colleges eng program with TN's top private school..The kids in the community college can build robots while the top scorer in venkateshwara can write the periodic table in under a minute.. Its not perfect in US either but when it comes to science they are way ahead of India .Even the Chinese students know more than an average Indian Student..Dont compare the cream of India(IITans,IIM etc) with the cream of American students.. Compare the avg american student with the average Indian student to know the real deal abt science studies in India. Esp. in the long run....as the salary in India keeps increasing, there will be no more advantage over Americans.. IF we want to improve India, we have to start with a major overhaul of our education system.

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Re: China Runs Circles Around India In Basic Science boss ur commentary is based on today's status... i am talking in holistic terms...ye myriad ancient texts covering math to medicine to sprituality aise hi nahin likha gaya... no doubt present condition doesn't look too rosy but god willing ye age-old basic trait with little help from govt (2% education cess is a good start) will see us through

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Re: China Runs Circles Around India In Basic Science

BTW chinese language has charcters runing in well over 3000 so it's not going to be an easy task
Don't worry, most chinese don't know all the characters runnin in their language and i know several fresh off the boat Chinese here in Vancouver. The commies reformed their language in the 60s cultural revolution phase- the only good thing to come out of that heinous movement- they now have simplified Chinese script that still has several characters but works much like Indo-European scripts where language is composed of a small (less than 100) and finite group of symbols representin sound. The pictograms and ideograms of ancient China are still a part of chinese language but is non-essential and even most Chinese don't know more than a handful of old chinese pictograms/ideograms that have cultural significance.
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Re: China Runs Circles Around India In Basic Science

BTW chinese language has charcters runing in well over 3000 so it's not going to be an easy task
Don't worry, most chinese don't know all the characters runnin in their language and i know several fresh off the boat Chinese here in Vancouver. The commies reformed their language in the 60s cultural revolution phase- the only good thing to come out of that heinous movement- they now have simplified Chinese script that still has several characters but works much like Indo-European scripts where language is composed of a small (less than 100) and finite group of symbols representin sound. The pictograms and ideograms of ancient China are still a part of chinese language but is non-essential and even most Chinese don't know more than a handful of old chinese pictograms/ideograms that have cultural significance.
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Re: China Runs Circles Around India In Basic Science On the topic- i guess it is different in different parts of India. I can say for certain - science education amongst bengalis is a problem but for the totally opposite reasons : there are too freakin many of us bengali science boys running around and not enough Bengali arts students around. This time i went back, almost everybody in my mohollah were doing either something science or accounting. The adverse effects of this science-dominated mentality in Bengalis is being felt in the Bengali culture - which had a recent golden age ( probably the most productive and advanced cultural phase of India in the last 250 years has been the Bengali culture). There is absolutely nobody today who can match the legions of Bengali cultural icons - Ram Mohan Roy, Bankim Chandra Chatterjee, Rabindranath Tagore, Michael Madhusudhan Dutt, Sharat Chandra, Sukumar Roy, Kazi Nazrul, Rani Rashmoni, Vivekananda, Ramkrishna, Netaji, etc etc. So if anything, Bengal would be better off with less science and more arts.

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Re: China Runs Circles Around India In Basic Science

On the topic- i guess it is different in different parts of India. I can say for certain - science education amongst bengalis is a problem but for the totally opposite reasons : there are too freakin many of us bengali science boys running around and not enough Bengali arts students around. This time i went back, almost everybody in my mohollah were doing either something science or accounting. The adverse effects of this science-dominated mentality in Bengalis is being felt in the Bengali culture - which had a recent golden age ( probably the most productive and advanced cultural phase of India in the last 250 years has been the Bengali culture). There is absolutely nobody today who can match the legions of Bengali cultural icons - Ram Mohan Roy, Bankim Chandra Chatterjee, Rabindranath Tagore, Michael Madhusudhan Dutt, Sharat Chandra, Sukumar Roy, Kazi Nazrul, Rani Rashmoni, Vivekananda, Ramkrishna, Netaji, etc etc. So if anything, Bengal would be better off with less science and more arts.
i concur only problem with bengal i have is they have shown sissy chraracter consistently in matters of sword... bt
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i concur only problem with bengal i have is they have shown sissy chraracter consistently in matters of sword... bt
So the Pal empire just happened because people surrendered to the Pals ? Pfft. Anyways, i take it as a plus point that Bengalis have been one of the most peaceful people in Indian history.
You forgot Satyajit Ray
True. But the list i mentioned is not exhaustive - there are many many top quality Bengali cultural icons that simply is not happening in Bengal anymore due to our over-emphasis on sciences. Even my mom, who is a professional performer, has a science degree in her background. Sigh.
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Re: China Runs Circles Around India In Basic Science put that under exception .. cowardice and peacefulness are not the same thing

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put that under exception .. cowardice and peacefulness are not the same thing
True. Cowardice however, is not willingness to put yourself in harm's way for your beleifs. Bengalis have always been passive resistors - much like Bihar before Bihar lost its culture significantly and became lawless. You did not answer to me about the Pal empire. In terms of military conquests, Bengalis have certainly done more than many other Indian communities- correct that, atleast as good as anybody else- including the Marathas and Magadha.
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Re: China Runs Circles Around India In Basic Science Oh, DR, another thing about calling Bengalis gutless cowards : I guess your knowledge of Indian independence history is not very strong or else you'd have realized that Bengal was *the* focal point of revolutionary independence movements. I see that as unfortunate but clearly, if billigerent resistance is your thing, you shouldn't diss Bengal. Bipin, Badol, Dinesh, Netaji, etc. were all Bengalis. Bengalis led the most violent and counterrevolutionary independence movements - most of revolutionary ideals - symbolized by vande mataram or inqalaab zindabaad originate in Bengal. Bengalis certainly showed more guts enaging in violent resistance than most of India. Ironic that you are calling a region that gave birth to Vande Mataram and Inqalaab Zindabaad as cowards. :lmao:

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