Jump to content

The chip of ignorance that Hindus carry


Lurker

Recommended Posts

Sorry for another thread on what seems, to me anyway, as an overkill. But some of the recent threads set me thinking and this is what came out. Read on, but only if you have time and an open mind. ************************************************************ How shameful and apologetic it is that after living for many centuries with Muslims we are still practically unaware of their history? One of the reasons of Hindu-Muslim dislike for each other is also that us Hindus have absolutely no ideas about the great characters of Muslim history. Whenever there was a mention of a Muslim King our eyes saw only the image of Aurangzeb. But good and bad characters have been part of every society and will continue to do so. Muslim community have also produced many a great leader, asthetics, alm-givers and Hindus would do well to learn and know about them. -- Munshi Premchand How true are those words up above! And how chilling is the fact that even after a hundred years of writing those words, the Hindu knowledge of Muslim history has not moved forward a bit? In this age of internet and access to Information of all sorts what exactly do we know about Muslim history? Perhaps that it was brought to earth by Prophet Mohammed who revealed to his followers the words of God. Or if you are cynical you may think of him as someone who would get the revealation as, and when, to suit his needs. Someone who would marry a 9 year old and had multiple wives. Hardly surprising when our source of information are not our own scholars, Premchand for example, and is more the likes of Faithfreedom and jehadwatch. By the way if you do not know much about Premchand, arguably the greatest story teller of modern India, dont be shy, you may very well be in the majority of population. What do we know about about Syed Hussain's sacrifice at Karbala? Some of us,if not most, may have seen the Muharram procession every year. A procession where young Muslims would beat themselves(sometimes very violently) and keep chanting " Hai Hussain, Hai Hussain". What effort did we ever make to learn of what exactly happened? If Islam has been in India for a millenium doesnt it mean that Hindus have lived with Muslims for 1000 years and still not understood them much at all? Do we know that Hussain's quandry at Karbala was similar to what Arjuna faced at Mahabharta? Should he lift his weapon to kill his own relatives, followers of his Grandfather's Ummat(not Ummah)? The only difference was Syed Hussain faced all of this without a Krishna by his side. And how many of us who know about Karbala are willing to give it even a fraction of importance of what we give to Arjuna-Krishna and the Geeta? Do you know that it is understood that a small group of Hindus were present at Karbala and faught alongside Hussain, shielding them from enemy so Hussain and his followers could do their namaaj? Haah did I get a little bit of more interest out of you? Why is that? Because Hindus have received a mention? What does that make us? Curious? Or something else more evil? I would even go so far as saying that its not Islam we do not know about. We also do not know about Sikhism, Buddhism, Jainism etc. What we certainly know about are the episodes in Indian history where Buddhists were killed, Sikhs were butchered and so on. While those episodes need to be surely learnt and understood how fair is it to know only Guru Gobind Singh and not Guru Nanak? How fair is it that we keep talking of HinduKush or Nalanda when we don't know anything about Buddha and his eight-fold path? It is not that we did not have oppertunities. No sir. We have had them but we have chosen to be ignorant. And so when Mahabharta was shown on Television the streets wold be deserted. And I must say,quite proudly if I may add, that it was the case with Muslim dominated area too. People would be inside their homes watching what is universally perceived as one of the greatest literary works ever. However when a serial with Mulsim background came on, something like Alif-Laila, I would hear from my own educated relatives, "Dhut Miyaanji ka serial hai kaun dekhega?". Sounds familiar? Yes Hindus, specially the right-wing kind, are quick to get all uncomfotable when they see a Muslim fall to the ground and do a sajda. Or if they walk around with that typical cap and short pajamas. And it would be the same lot who would be more than willing to thrusting the Prasad from Shirdi/Tirupati etc in everyone's face - from an athiest to a non-Hindu. And when someone refuses he automatically becomes anti-Hindu! And so I did not know whether I should feel happy, proud, ecstatic when I read the interview of Aamir Khan the other day. He was asked what was his one dream role he would like to play in his career. His response - "My dream role probably is the role of Karna from the Mahabharat. I read the Mahabharat which was really fascinating.Karna is a warrior and he?s meant to be six-and-half-foot tall ideally. So I don?t think I will ever be able to play that role, but the mind of the character is what really fascinates me. He is a very heroic character, he is a character with a lot of sacrifice, and a lot of strength and a lot of loyalty." When was the last time you heard an Amitabh, a Hrithik, a Sanjay Dutt suggest he would want to portray a Muhammed, an Akbar, a Zafar as his dream role? I rest my case. xxxx

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: The chip of ignorance that Hindus carry Lurker, IMO, that's generalizing. The majority of Hindus I know don't give a cobber about religion. In fact they are avowedly areligious- the sort of people who remember God when there is an exam or strife around. You talk about not knowing about Hussain? The majority among us would struggle to name two of the twelve disciples of Jesus, or the importance of Easter Sunday. How much knowledge does the common Hindu have of the Vedas & Upanishads? Now show me a Muslim who hasn't made acquaintance with the Quran. We are not irreverent about another faith, we simply want to be left alone. Hinduism, Christianity, Islam, in our book, they are all highly politicized cults practiced by the religious mafias. The bigger the hoo-hah, the bigger are the mafioso. And that's why a certain faith pisses off so many people. Too much noise, too much brotherhood, too fine a sensitivity, too many double standards. Too intrusive. Nothing to be ashamed of as Hindus, IMO. Just leave us alone.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: The chip of ignorance that Hindus carry Religion is a personal thing.Its alright not to know history,rituals..the details and still be religious....Hinduism is really liberal in that sense and neither does its practioners go around bigging up their religion.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: The chip of ignorance that Hindus carry Please, this is a BS article posted by someone who laments sane people not wanting to be slaughtered by portraying muhammad who btw himself was a war criminal by any standard, among other things.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: The chip of ignorance that Hindus carry Also since 95% of Muslims In Indian subcontinent were of Hindu or Buddhist ancestory, doesn't it behove them to learn about THEIR history too... why do they carry a HUGE chip of IGNORANCE about that? Instead many if not most of them are busy either blowing up statutes of the Buddha and eradicating any traces of Hindu culture in the Muslim nations of Afghanistan, Pakistan, and Bangladesh...or supporting such activity...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: The chip of ignorance that Hindus carry

You talk about not knowing about Hussain? The majority among us would struggle to name two of the twelve disciples of Jesus, or the importance of Easter Sunday. How much knowledge does the common Hindu have of the Vedas & Upanishads? We are not irreverent about another faith, we simply want to be left alone. Nothing to be ashamed of as Hindus, IMO. Just leave us alone.
Dhondy. I beleive you and me are saying the same things. Only I think it should not be so while you perhaps think it is okay. The problem, in my opinion, in being ignorant(you are quite correct about Hindus not being too religious by the way) is that one does not know much about the world outside his own circle. Indeed this was the case in Ancient India and one of the reasons(apathy) suggested why Indian civilization did not spread as much globally as it perhaps should have. Take for example, the comments by Al-Baruni, the Iranian traveller to India around 10th century. His work is considered an important milestone in Indian history and he was himself a scholar of Sanskrit and other Ancient Indian Sciences. This is what he wrote(taken from the book Argumentative Indian by Amartya Sen): On the whole there is very little disputing about theological topics amongst themselves(Indians)....On the contrary all their fanaticism is directed against those who do not belong to them - against all foreigners. They are called mleccha; ie impure and forbid having any connection with them, be it intermarriage or any other kind of relationship, or by sitting, eating and drinking with them. (It is interesting to note that some of these even continued till 1000 years later than the time it was written. I have seen with my own two eyes how there were seperate utensils for Muslims at Hindus houses.) Al-Baruni continues - In all manners and usages they(Indians) differ from us to such a degree as to frighten their children with us, our dress, and our ways and customs, and as to declare us to be the devil's breed and our doings as the very opposite of that is good and proper. This comes from a man who has otherwise written glowingly about India. And while cynically some of us could dismiss it as a rant of a Mulsim the fact is I for one can certainly see where he was coming from. xxxx
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest dada_rocks

Re: The chip of ignorance that Hindus carry Too many assumptions here.. other than a brief period of akbar's rein anda decade of shershah rein , find me a period where any semblance of equality was accorded to non-muslims........ I have experienced muslims mistake non-violent nature of the rest in the face of even utter discriminationas some sort of approval of their discriminatory policy.... Dhimmi status of hindus may hae seen periods without civil unrest that doesn't mean it was some kind of glorious period of communal coexistance.. non-muslims under fear and cowardice could not muster courage to oppose it and took the crap silently. Today in layasia there is institutionalized discrimination against non-muslms in place still we don't see any civil unrest does it mean this is glorious period of communal coexistance and parity . answer is nooooo.. non-muslims are not fanatic enough to complain so easily once the existance comes into question then they might wake up till them chalta hai attitude rules the roost.. Just change the equation 40% muslim being forced to same kind of discimination based on religion by 60% non-muslim and imagine the civil unrest it would ensue. In this day and age we don't find even a single place malayasia included where muslim majority gaccords same rights to the rest then what makes u believe that those less civilized of yore when words like human rights secularism was not that popular would have been any different. Hindus this hindus that fact remains from very beginning all persecuted people of the world has found safe haven among hindus of india. Yes premchand is not historian is a story telle and wirters are very natre are romantic and have tenedency of seeing thigns through rose-tinted glass. for every premchand quote I am willing to provide you quotes of Bhimrav Ambedkar , supposedly a guy who lived under brahmanical persecution, hence hard to explain away hsi words as chip on the shoulder of chip on brahmanical supremacist ideology.. Regarding Mahabharat finding audience among muslims too and alif laila not enjoying the same kind of popularity dare i say even among muslims. There are two reasons for this (1) quality of the serial (2) alien setitng of the serial for muslim and non-muslim alike. how many of indian muslims can relate to the story set in middle-east socail milieu. And quite contarary to the OP like u to believe more I read about history more my views went south viz a viz islamist. Before that all I knew is muhamamd messiha and akbar goody goody abrave urangjeb faught with treacherous shivaji. India history writers have put way too much effort to present the vile invaders as secular messiha. No history book in India mentions about aurangjeb or khilji or gori or gazni's blood thirst and religious fanaticism again quite contarary to what OP likes u to believe. So if anythign is being taught to indian kids it's through islamist prism, on that part of history. Despite all this negativity creeps in and the reaso is these guys sins can't be wished away by some history engineering. I mean what would u tell a kid in following scenario when he visits nalanda and asks how it got abolished when he visits qutub minar and see sanskrit inscription and asks what is qutub about it.. when he visits udaipur and questions how mewar kingdom got ruined when he visits Vishwanath temple and sees mosque in its very complex when he finds varanasi was renamed muhaamdpur when he visits mathura once again sees similar scenario there is a destroyed temple and mosque raised on its ruins in more or lss every nook and corner of india.. they don't find churches built on ruins of temples may be in goa they might but in rest fo the india u would hardly find any well historians can exclude these things from history books but sooner or later this is going to come to the fore.... Hence my beleif more you know about them more repulsive you get it's not lack of knowledge if it's anything it's surfeit of knowledge. I am staunch belliever of let bygones be bygones but when u see the same $hit still continuing this let bygones be bygones mantra becmes tantamount knuckleheadedness. Islamist and islamic state refuse to evolve not only that they expect others to evolve and also forget the past. How can it be justified, u got to meet half-way at least. Every problem orginiates from their arogant beleif that they and they only are privy to ultimae truth and this is what makes them behave the way do in islamic dens and leads to open discrimnation against the rest without a fail. Yourpost is big on emotion and pauper on facts. I too want world-pece and all that goody goody thigns but this is not goign to come by putting head in sand and pretending there is no problem around.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: The chip of ignorance that Hindus carry

Regarding Mahabharat finding audience among muslims too and alif laila not enjoying the same kind of popularity dare i say even among muslims. There are two reasons for this (1) quality of the serial (2) alien setitng of the serial for muslim and non-muslim alike. how many of indian muslims can relate to the story set in middle-east socail milieu.
That is the only productive piece from your reply. Everything else was, well on predictable lines. If you had just written Dada_Rocks that many times I would have got the picture. Coming to what I was your valid critique. 1) Quality of Serial: Fair enough. Mahabharta was certainly miles ahead as far as quality was concerned. However it merits the question as to why the quality was bad in the first place? Like any industry, the television industry has majority by Hindus. So why was the equality so bad? Are you suggesting me that the best brains of Indian Entertainment Industry came together and still could not turn out a gem, simply because the content was bad?? 2) Alien setting: What was alien about them? Are you telling me that you could sit through a Mahabharta and asscoiate yourself with the settings? The dress worn, the house lived in, the way people addressed themselves? What was alien about Alif-Laila than was not so alien about Mahabharta? xxxx
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: The chip of ignorance that Hindus carry

The problem, in my opinion, in being ignorant(you are quite correct about Hindus not being too religious by the way) is that one does not know much about the world outside his own circle.
I wouldn't have thought of you as an apologist, Lurker, but sometimes you certainly come across as one. Ignorance? How much do Muslims know about Hinduism? How much do Christians know about Islam? To each his own, I say. This is 2007. Are we still taking about the spread of civilizations? In case you haven't noticed, there's only one civilization that matters- the Western civilization. It's secular, areligious and capitalistic. We all live in it. Happily. And those who don't, aspire to be a part of it. There are those who live in that civilization and knock it. They talk about imposing their own way of life, their own code of conduct. They are in denial of course. Their way of life lost out because it was inefficient, violent, subjugative and economically unproductive. I'm sorry, I have neither the time, nor the inclination to understand their way.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest dada_rocks

Re: The chip of ignorance that Hindus carry

That is the only productive piece from your reply. Everything else was, well on predictable lines. If you had just written Dada_Rocks that many times I would have got the picture.
feeling is mutual and btw this usually happens with u whenever data doesn't go well with ur extended islamic apologetic rant....u are trying to create a picture of co-existance where non existed and obviously u will have to scale everest of naked facts.. u have found easy way out close the eyes.. u won't be the first have bumped into this type millin times ***************************** 1) Quality of Serial: Fair enough. Mahabharta was certainly miles ahead as far as quality was concerned. However it merits the question as to why the quality was bad in the first place? Like any industry, the television industry has majority by Hindus. So why was the equality so bad? Are you suggesting me that the best brains of Indian Entertainment Industry came together and still could not turn out a gem, simply because the content was bad?? 2) Alien setting: What was alien about them? Are you telling me that you could sit through a Mahabharta and asscoiate yourself with the settings? The dress worn, the house lived in, the way people addressed themselves?
What was alien about Alif-Laila than was not so alien about Mahabharta?
two things again every hindu home has mahabharta even those who turned muslim majority under sword and monetary inducement and few under sufi influence were hindus before so that tradition is there.. now tell me how many even amog muslims have alif laila in their house and do daily reading... so ramanand sagar essenially was trying to educate people throughthat serial for the first time and there lies the differnce.. kr alif laila is creation og hindu so by url ogic it sud have been popular among hindus.. as usual sir u write before u think..nobody goes to watch a movie or play or serial based on religios leanings f the creator.. yes one might go looking for proven big name.. another thing guess u are unaware of the popularity of tipu sultan serial .. he was local personality although very fanatic islamist but serial based on his story was quite popuular.. and there goes ur cock and bull theory down the drain
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: The chip of ignorance that Hindus carry That was just my observation . If you don't like it , that is fine with me. BTW, Tipu sultan was far from being a fanatic islamist. I don't know where you got this from. Are you refering to his escapades in Kerala ?.His Prime Minister was a hindu and go to Srirangputnam and you will see temples untouched by him. And he did fight against British for our freedom. Are you going to deny even that ??? Friendly advise for you , no need to go ballistic in every thread. You need a crash course in anger management.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: The chip of ignorance that Hindus carry

Mahabharata serial was written by a Muslim. This increased the appeal among muslim viewers ' date='in my opinion.[/quote'] I beleive you are talking about Rahi Masoom Reza here KR. Yes he wrote Mahabharta and also the pure Hindi in the likes of Hrishikesh Mukherjee classic GolMaal.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: The chip of ignorance that Hindus carry

I wouldn't have thought of you as an apologist, Lurker, but sometimes you certainly come across as one.
I was waiting for someone to say that.
How much do Muslims know about Hinduism? How much do Christians know about Islam?
An Indian Muslim, an Indian Christian knows far more than an Indian Hindu does about them.
In case you haven't noticed, there's only one civilization that matters- the Western civilization. It's secular, areligious and capitalistic. We all live in it. Happily.
Actually I have not noticed that. Western civilization, in words of Gandhi, would have been a great idea. Seriously though there are a lot of things I like about Western civilization but I refuse to see it as the only one that matters. Perhaps this stems from my own principle that I do not judge the man by the size of his wallet. xxx
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: The chip of ignorance that Hindus carry

two things again every hindu home has mahabharta even those who turned muslim majority under sword and monetary inducement and few under sufi influence were hindus before so that tradition is there.. now tell me how many even amog muslims have alif laila in their house and do daily reading...
Your statement is not only factually wrong but downright hilarious! Here's why: 1) Hindu home DO NOT keep Mahabharta. Atleast bulk of Hindu homes do not keep Mahabharta due to the fear that it invokes family feuds. Without going into wthether this is superstition or not I can certainly attest to the fact that Hindu homes do not keep Mahabharta at home. Geeta, perhaps(even that is not in EVERY house as you put it), books of Mahabharta character maybe but Mahabharta? NO. 2) That some of the Muslims of today kept the book in their home hundreds of years back proves nothing. Lets talk of today. The overwhelming majority of Muslims who appreciated Mahabharta had never read, learned or touched a Mahabharta.
kr alif laila is creation og hindu so by url ogic it sud have been popular among hindus.. as usual sir u write before u think..nobody goes to watch a movie or play or serial based on religios leanings f the creator.. yes one might go looking for proven big name..
I am sorry I did not understand anything there, specially the part I highlighted. Please rephrase.
another thing guess u are unaware of the popularity of tipu sultan serial .. he was local personality although very fanatic islamist but serial based on his story was quite popuular.. and there goes ur **** and bull theory down the drain
Fair point. Yes Tipu Sultan was quite popular. But religious fanatic? Where do you get this idea? Would you want to elaborate on that? xxx
Link to comment
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...