Guajarat 2006 Is Deadlier Than 2002

[head coach]

Little long but an interesting read, little diverted view from the ones that are put out by few of the guys on this MB: Guajarat 2006 Is Deadlier Than 2002 By Prashant Jha 19 October, 2006 Short, stocky, and balding, Babubhai Rajabhai Patel can pass off as a normal, middle-class trader. Only, he isn't one. Babu Bajrangi, as Patel likes to be called, says he runs an NGO, Navchetan Sangathan. Sitting in his 'office' in Ajanta Ellora Complex in Naroda in Ahemdabad, Bajrangi is surrounded by images of RSS ideologues KS Hedgewar and Guru Golwalkar, a map of Akhand Bharat, and his own photographs, with politicians or in public meetings. Bajrangi claims to be a social worker. "I rescue Hindu women who are lured by Muslims. I hate such marriages." As soon as Bajrangi gets to know of any such union, he kidnaps and sends the girl back home; and beats up the Muslim boy. "It's fun. Only last week, we made one such man eat his own shit thrice," he says. Bajrangi's operation is ruthless and effective. He claims to have 'saved' 725 Hindu women this way. And what about the law? "What I do is illegal, but it is moral. And anyway, the government is ours." Perhaps that is the reason that Bajrangi, chief accused in the Naroda Patiya murder case (during the Gujarat carnage), is out on the streets and not behind bars. "People say I killed 123 people," says Bajrangi with a grin. Did you? "How does it matter? They were Muslims - bloody Pakistanis. They had to die. They are dead." "The government is ours." Few will doubt Bajrangi's claim. Not Muslims for sure, for they know Bajrangi might be more extremist than most, but he represents a mindset that is widespread: the mindset of the Gandhinagar government's ministers. The mindset of several Hindus, from the waiter to the auto-driver and the middle-class, across Gujarat. The discourse among Muslims has a striking unity. There is no one who speaks for us. This is not our government. This is their rule - Hindu rule. What do we do? As an elder in Shah Alam, a Muslim area in Ahmedabad, puts it, "Our crime is we pray to Allah." The emotions of Muslims across Gujarat revolves around alienation, helplessness, and anger. Understandably so, large sections of the Hindu society, led on by the BJP government, ensure that Muslims remain second-class citizens. And that is the story of Gujarat 2006. A tale of a society that is sharply polarised and prejudices about the 'other' deeply entrenched, and a state that happily engineers everyday hatred. In its wake, lies a community that lives in fear. The Gujarat of today is in some senses more dangerous than the Gujarat of 2002. For here, the violence is invisible. It operates systematically, as well as subtly, at the establishment and social level. The truth is, the Gujarat government has seceded from the Indian Constitution. It did so in 2002, when the state sponsored mass violence against Muslims. And contrary to what many think, it has consistently done so and flaunted it since then. It has tried to completely subvert the process of justice for 2002 victims, from distorting FIRs and ensuring faulty investigation, to letting the accused get away free. With office-bearers of the Sangh Parivar affiliates doubling up as public prosecutors, it is little surprise that only 13 out of the 345 cases decided so far have resulted in convictions. Even as it fulfils its promise that no harm should come the way of rioters, the government continues its campaign to harass innocent Muslims. The fact that the UPA government in Delhi did not ban the draconian legislation, Prevention of Terrorism Act (POTA), retrospectively has meant that those charged under that law in Gujarat before 2004 remain in jail. This effectively means that the secular UPA government, backed by the Left, is playing Narendra Modi's game. Maulana Omarji's house is, ironically, on the Station Road in Godhra. But he doesn't live there. Along with others accused of hatching the conspiracy and burning the train compartment at the Godhra railway station on February 27, 2002, he stays some distance away - in Sabarmati Jail in Ahmedabad. Omarji was arrested one year after the incident took place - a period in which he was active in organising relief camps for Muslims, and petitioning national leaders who came visiting about the injustice meted out to minorities in the state. Clearly, someone powerful did not like that. A well-respected man and community leader against whom there is no evidence, Maulana Omarji is charged with POTA. His young and articulate son, Saeed, is quite frustrated. "What is the fault of Muslims in India? I am so angry with the system here, including the judiciary." Everything is stacked up against Muslims in India, feels Saeed. "I am an Indian and will never be disloyal to my country. But I feel our parents and grandparents made a mistake by staying on here. We should have gone to Pakistan." It is a striking comment, revealing the manner in which a fascist state is pushing people into a corner. Half-an-hour from Godhra lies Kalol -- a site of major violence in 2002. This reporter met Mukhtar Mohammad at the Kalol police station. Active in organising relief camps, Mukhtar has been working to get justice for the victims. Something that did not go down too well with the state authorities. Framed under, what by all accounts, is a false 'rape case', he is stuck making rounds of police stations and magistrates and has to spend occasional nights, and at times, extended periods in jail. He says, "They want to break any kind of leadership that emerges among the Muslims, especially those who are moderate, and want to fight politically, constitutionally and legally." Indeed, there is a pattern in which the Gujarat government is acting against Muslims. The Hindutva forces have no problems if the influence of the Muslim conservative religious organisations increases because it helps strengthen their stereotypes about Muslims. What they do not want is an articulate, liberal voice among Muslims that speaks the language of democratic rights and claims equal citizenship. The regime targets innocent Muslims not just by framing false cases. Discrimination is spread across all realms. Juhapura is the largest Muslim ghetto in Ahmedabad with more than 300,000 people. Yet, it has no bank, state transport buses take a detour to avoid crossing through it, and there are no public parks or libraries. OBC communities among the Muslims in Gujarat find it difficult to get certain certificates. The saffronisation of the bureaucracy and local power structures, points out scholar Achyut Yagnik, has meant that panchayats, co-operatives, agrarian produce markets and government schemes have become sites for discrimination against Muslims. What is more alarming is the fact that this discrimination has larger social sanction. There is pride about the 2002 toofan among many Hindus - we taught them a lesson, crushed; the world should learn how to deal with miyas from us, are oft-heard remarks. And the increasing distance between the two communities, both in the minds and physically, has not helped matters. Most cities and towns in Gujarat are completely divided into Hindu and Muslim areas; a street corner, a divider in the middle of the road, a wall, or just a turn acting as borders. If it was difficult for a Muslim to find a house in Hindu areas before the killings, it is impossible now. Sophia Khan is a well-known woman activist in Ahmedabad. Her office was in Narayanpura, an upmarket Hindu area. A month ago, when neighbours in her office complex got to know of her faith, they asked her to vacate immediately. Putting up a fight was no use in the face of constant harassment. She has now shifted to Juhapura. "My house is in a Muslim area. My office is now in a Muslim area. My Hindu employee is being pressurised by her family to resign, because they don't like her coming to a Muslim area. And my work revolves around Muslim women. This is how they want to push an entire community into a corner," says Khan. The segregation has spread to other realms as well, leading to absence of contact and interaction between the two communities and breeding stereotypes and intolerance. The most visible realm is the fewer number of mixed schools in Ahmedabad which have a fair number of Hindus and Muslims. Discrimination on religious lines, coupled with the desire of parents to send children to schools where there are 'more of our people' has further boosted this trend. Pankaj Chandra, professor at Indian Institute of Management, is worried. Brought up in the composite Ganga-Jamuni culture of Allahabad in Uttar Pradesh, he says, "My children may graduate from school without knowing a single Muslim. Imagine how easy it will be to build stereotypes then." When this reporter, with his long, unkempt beard, walked into an elite government colony in Ahmedabad to meet a senior official, three kids parked their bicycles right in front. One screamed aloud, "Terrorist." Why? "Because you are a Musalman," he responded. So? "All Muslims are terrorists. My father is a judge. He will call you terrorist in court." Really? "Yes. And get out of here. This is a Hindu area." Sauyajya is 12-year-old and has not met a single Muslim in his life. No one knows how many Sauyajyas are in the making in Gujarat.

[Predator_05]

Re: Guajarat 2006 Is Deadlier Than 2002 If you want to be taken seriously, at least get the spelling right. What the hell is a "Guajarat" anyway ? As for the article - it's a load of exaggerated, sanctimonious trash that is so typical of the pseudo-secularist media which reports news in India. I swear, when i read these articles in the Indian press i think it's no different from the "Yellow News" that used to printed back in the 1800's - sensationalist garbage full of loaded questions meant to provoke reactions amongst common folk who don't know any better. We keep hearing millions of sob-stories about muzlims, but the millions of Hindus who lose their lives in the annual bomb-blasts and in Kashmir don't get a single column inch. Not to mention the 59 hindus that were torched in the first place - i never saw a single article discussing their plight. Why don't these c*nts ever rent quotes off the katwa nutcases (of whom there are MILLIONS) like the Imam of Delhi's Jama Masjid ?

[head coach]

Re: Guajarat 2006 Is Deadlier Than 2002 Predator, Didnt notice the misspelling in the article. I swear it was not any ad gimmick :hic: Now back to the point, How the hell do you think BJP gets to power in these states. They sell hard Hindutva and sell storeis of how Hindus were mass murdered by Muslims at these places. They may not succeed on getting it into all national newspaper but succeed on getting into the minds of majority of people and capture the vote banks. Dont tell me sensationalist garbage is not put out by BJP and other communal parites. That is the only thing that projects them when it comes to getting highlight. I wonder how you were able to read 1800's yellow news though? Would like to meet in person if someone living of that age

[Predator_05]

Re: Guajarat 2006 Is Deadlier Than 2002 Since when do you have to live in a particular era to know about it ? Expand your mind. and don't be a nit-picker - it's not cool. and why did you dodge my questions ? ...as for the question of why the BJP have Gujarat as a stronghold, perhaps you should do a little research and educate yourself about on the ECONOMIC PROGRESS they have made since Modi took over. You can start here; http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/47507929.cms and here http://www.indiaenews.com/business/20070112/35532.htm

[head coach]

Re: Guajarat 2006 Is Deadlier Than 2002

Since when do you have to live in a particular era to know about it ? Expand your mind. and don't be a nit-picker - it's not cool. and why did you dodge my questions ? ...as for the question of why the BJP have Gujarat as a stronghold, perhaps you should do a little research and educate yourself about on the ECONOMIC PROGRESS they have made since Modi took over. You can start here; http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/47507929.cms and here http://www.indiaenews.com/business/20070112/35532.htm

Predator, dig in deep before taking a stand, read this first: ?Economic Freedom? is not about good government. It is not even about economic achievements. It is about the least government and looking most business friendly. It is as if a policeman is to be judged by how crisp and clean his uniform is and not by his professional achievements. In terms of economic growth at constant prices in the decade after 1993?94, Gujarat averaged a growth of 6.72% which ranks it well below first placed West Bengal?s 8.55% and Karnataka?s 7.29%. In fact Gujarat?s performance is 0.15% below the national average and just 0.10% more than Bihar?s. The last one would probably be the unkindest cut of all for we know economic growth in Bihar is almost entirely unassisted by the state governments exertions or the central governments benevolence. * In reduction of poverty, Gujarat has achieved a decline of 65.87% since 1977, which while commendable only places it sixth, well below Goa, Kerala, HP, Haryana and Punjab. Even now after so much of good government particularly under Keshubhai Patel, Sureshbhai Mehta and Narendrabhai Modi, Gujarat still has 14.07% living below the poverty line placing it only fourth from the top! While Gujarat has the highest per capita spending on Roads and Irrigation, it ranks only sixth in per capita spending on Health and Education. * The consequences of these can be seen in the human development indices. In terms of reduction of Infant Mortality Rate (IMR), Gujarat has achieved a reduction of 17.94%, which is eleventh in terms of rank leaving it with an IMR of 64 which places it seventh. Gujarat doesn?t do too well in terms of life expectancy with the average longevity being 62.15 years which puts it at eighth place below even Bihar?s 62.85 years. Again in terms of sex ratio, Gujarat is running neck to neck with Bihar with 921 females to every 1000 males. In terms of literacy Gujarat once again is not among the top with 69.97%, which ranks it sixth. When it comes to overall population growth, Gujarat with an annual growth of 2.42% is once again sixth in the ranking. Even in terms of population between ages of 5?14 enrolled in schools, Gujarat with 74.35% stands at sixth place. * There is another perspective on this we could also consider. In terms of value of property stolen during 2003, Gujarat reported Rs. 32,419 lakhs as stolen placing it just below Maharashtra. In terms of property recovery Gujarat had only 9.5% whereas top ranked Haryana managed 68.3%. Then there is another interesting statistic about Gujarat that is quite telling. In 2003 Gujarat reported 1044 cases of kidnapping, which is about half of the numbers reported from the traditional kidnapping states like Bihar, UP and Rajasthan, but well above MP, Maharashtra, Tamil Nadu and Karnataka. But what makes Gujarat truly unique is that almost 90% of those kidnapped were below 30 years and nearly 80% kidnapped were women. This is almost twice the national average. So much for ?the highest level of safety of life and property? claimed in Gujarat. The National Crime Records Bureau also reports that Gujarat was no slouch when it came to violent crime with 13.1% putting it ahead even of UP, West Bengal and Punjab, and in terms of IPC crime rate Gujarat with 197.0 was above the national average of 160.7. Quite clearly there is more to good governance than just Economic Freedom. Gujarat has not done too badly but to claim that it is the ?best governed state? in India based on some dubious index is to be somewhat economical with the truth

[Predator_05]

Re: Guajarat 2006 Is Deadlier Than 2002 blah blah blah. The point is that Gujarat has IMPROVED since Modi took over a floundering state and brought it back up from the ruins after the 2001 Bhuj earthquake. It's the most progressive state in India and attracts investment inspite of all the garbage that pseudo-secularists living from afar tend to spread. Did you even bother with READING the links i put out there and investigating my claim further ? Clearly not. If you cannot even recognise the good that Modi has done for their economy, then you are obviously not worth debating with.

[head coach]

Re: Guajarat 2006 Is Deadlier Than 2002

blah blah blah. The point is that Gujarat has IMPROVED since Modi took over a floundering state and brought it back up from the ruins after the 2001 Bhuj earthquake. It's the most progressive state in India and attracts investment inspite of all the garbage that pseudo-secularists living from afar tend to spread. Did you even bother with READING the links i put out there and investigating my claim further ? Clearly not. If you cannot even recognise the good that Modi has done for their economy' date=' then you are obviously not worth debating with.[/quote'] Predator, without knowing the facts you can't come to a conclusion. Modi govt has improved the economic condition of the state. But it'll be fair to agree with this comparison that was put forward way back: Hitler was remarkably successful in accelerating economic development. In a short span of five years, between 1933 and 1938, he raised Germany from the depths of depression to a most formidable economic and military power even more powerful than imperial Britain. He was able to do so because he had the unqualified intellectual support of the middle class and the financial support of big business. There is a real possibility that Modi too may succeed in the same manner. For 50 years, goaded by "secular" intellectuals, successive governments in India have systematically denigrated and alienated the upper castes who form the backbone of both entrepreneurship and the middle class. Many of these talented people have been backing Modi. If he manages to provide them the opportunities they have been denied so far, they may ensure rapid economic progress. In that case, like Hitler, Modi will become irresistible. Both cashed in on the frustrations of the educated middle class

[Lurker]

Re: Guajarat 2006 Is Deadlier Than 2002 HC, There are two aspects here. And we can not ignore either of them: 1) Gujrat is certainly deadlier today. Deadlier to an Indian Muslim or a free minded Indian really. It is no small wonder that it is often called "laboratory of Hindutva". If you are a free-minded Indian, or any religion, you are in the docks in Gujrat. Remember what happened to Aamir Khan when he critized Modi? His movie Fanaa ran into issues and Yash Chopra had to fly down, meet Modi(as in earlier times the small people offered najrana to big shots) and then the movie saw the day. I have a feeling a lot of Muslims have migrated from Gujrat and those that remain shall face an unknown fear. Remember there is only state where the latest release Parzania is not being shown even though it has been cleared by National Censure Board. 2) Gujrat has done great in terms of economy and flourishing business. It certainly is one of the top states in India today by any barometers. Which in turn means that Modi has been a Great Administrator and for that he should get the rightful praise. I mean the previous Parties in power had hardly done anything for Gujrat so it would be foolish to criticize Modi ad-nauseum. Lets put it this way now. Gujrat is deadlier today to Muslims and free-minded Hindus. If you are a staunch Hindu, possibly right-wing, it is a great place to be really. xxx

[Lurker]

Re: Guajarat 2006 Is Deadlier Than 2002

Considering that the "default" response of hindus has been to shutup & putup , run , convert or die .... yeah sure this is different ....

BB, A simple question for you - Do you beleive in Historical retribution? Straight answers would be appreciated. xxx

[head coach]

Re: Guajarat 2006 Is Deadlier Than 2002

Considering that the "default" response of hindus has been to shutup & putup , run , convert or die .... yeah sure this is different .... Now the million dollar question is why is the "default response" ok ? I will be holding my breath in anticipation of a straight answer. :wtg:

Bheem, Its simple the majoritarian agenda was carried out with precision and determination by Modi Govt and BJP in the state. Take a deep breath now

[yoda]

Re: Guajarat 2006 Is Deadlier Than 2002

blah blah blah. The point is that Gujarat has IMPROVED since Modi took over a floundering state and brought it back up from the ruins after the 2001 Bhuj earthquake. It's the most progressive state in India and attracts investment inspite of all the garbage that pseudo-secularists living from afar tend to spread. Did you even bother with READING the links i put out there and investigating my claim further ? Clearly not. If you cannot even recognise the good that Modi has done for their economy' date=' then you are obviously not worth debating with.[/quote'] This is all BS. Gujarat was thriving well even in the late 80s and the 90s. It always had a large and growing natural gas and chemicals related industries. It always was a great dairy state. All states have improved with the growing Indian economy. Even politicians as facked up as Jayalalitha and Karunanidhi have seen their state's ecnomic situation improving drastically with multinationals opening large factories every year.

[kabira]

Re: Guajarat 2006 Is Deadlier Than 2002 >Remember there is only state where the latest release Parzania is not being shown even though it has been cleared by National Censure Board. And Da vinci code was banned in Tamil Nadu..??Why?? I am from Gujarat..and never heard about Bajrangi...seems lot of things are exaggerated.. Gujarat will always be volatile..If another Sabarmati happens, rest assured another riots wil happen, no matter who is ruling. I have seen with my eyes, Muslims buring Indian flag in Ahmedabad...WTF..

[Lurker]

Re: Guajarat 2006 Is Deadlier Than 2002

And Da vinci code was banned in Tamil Nadu..??Why??

Da Vinci code being banned in Tamil Nadu was an equally crap idea. I doubt any sane person supports banning of Da Vinci Code in any state of India really. In the same breath banning of Parzania is also a crappy idea.

I am from Gujarat..and never heard about Bajrangi...seems lot of things are exaggerated..

Maybe so.However I heard the name Bajrangi as the linchpin of Naroda-Patiya at the time it happened. If you have heard of Naroda-Patiya you must have heard of Bajrangi.

Gujarat will always be volatile..If another Sabarmati happens, rest assured another riots wil happen, no matter who is ruling.

This is a good point. Why does Gujrat have such a strained relationship between Hindus and Muslims? Clearly economic poverty is not the reason. The large number of Muslim population can not be the reason since Bihar/UP/Assam/West Bengal have all greater number of Muslim percentage population and do not suffer from the same stigma(thankfully!). So what is the reason in your opinion for the hostile relationship there? xxx

[kabira]

Re: Guajarat 2006 Is Deadlier Than 2002 >So what is the reason in your opinion for the hostile relationship there? its hostile everywhere...in Bombay, in Hyderabad, in Kerala..everywhere.. But only Gujarat is highlighted because most of the times muslims are the ones most affected (I should say highlighted in media)...because hindus in Gujarat dont give a damn. The give more than what they get.. Thats why conversion in Gujarat is lowest...and mind you, if Majority is happy and at peace, it will always be reflected on minority..Muslims in Gujarat are well off than any part of India...Quite a lot of Bohra community have thriving businesses. Thing is we never look at the problem..its not the job of majority to appease minorities..its other way round..

[head coach]

Re: Guajarat 2006 Is Deadlier Than 2002

>So what is the reason in your opinion for the hostile relationship there? its hostile everywhere...in Bombay, in Hyderabad, in Kerala..everywhere.. But only Gujarat is highlighted because most of the times muslims are the ones most affected (I should say highlighted in media)...because hindus in Gujarat dont give a damn. The give more than what they get.. Thats why conversion in Gujarat is lowest...and mind you, if Majority is happy and at peace, it will always be reflected on minority..Muslims in Gujarat are well off than any part of India...Quite a lot of Bohra community have thriving businesses. Thing is we never look at the problem..its not the job of majority to appease minorities..its other way round..

Kabira, whether you agree or not, it is evident that Gujarat is the most visible stomping ground of Hindu supremacist ideologues. And it seems you support the domination of majority over minorities in socio-economic status. Also it is sad when people like you support the rule of hate, blind revenge and violence. Such hateful and revengeful Hindutva is bound to terrify minorities against whom its ire is directed and end up resulting in attacks in major cities affecting common men.

[kabira]

Re: Guajarat 2006 Is Deadlier Than 2002 >Also it is sad when people like you support the rule of hate, blind revenge and violence. where did I support rule of hate?? Btw, what you know about Gujarat?? and what part of India you from? >Such hateful and revengeful Hindutva is bound to terrify minorities against whom its ire is directed and end up resulting in attacks in major cities affecting common men. sorry my friend, if somehow Hindutva you perceive is terrifying minorities, you have problem..but exodus of KP's from valley, you dont even mention that.. What the f.uck you know about Hindutva?? What exactly is Hindutva??

[kabira]

Re: Guajarat 2006 Is Deadlier Than 2002 >Kabira, whether you agree or not, it is evident that Gujarat is the most visible stomping ground of Hindu supremacist ideologues. whether you agree or not, it is evident that Pakistan is the most visible stomping ground of Muslim supremacist idealogues.

[head coach]

Re: Guajarat 2006 Is Deadlier Than 2002

>What the f.uck you know about Hindutva?? What exactly is Hindutva??

Kabira, Obviously I'm not going to reply the same way at your emotional outburst. By the by, being a moderator on this forum dont you think you should show some decency in language while responding.

[kabira]

Re: Guajarat 2006 Is Deadlier Than 2002 >By the by, being a moderator on this forum dont you think you should show some decency in language while responding. dont tell me your Boss doesnt use the F word...right now I am not moderator, I am poster just like you.. and ..I am not emotional..I am mere asking you what you know..because from what I have read, you seem to be ignorant of Gujarat and its culture.. So far you have avoided that question..What part of India you from??

[head coach]

Re: Guajarat 2006 Is Deadlier Than 2002 Indian nationalism as a double-headed discourse split between a secular liberalism and a supremacist Hindu majoritism is ridiculous but it is the fact. It is strange when you find Hindu nationalism playing a paradoxical dual role in the society: When Hindus are attacked by Muslims, Hindutva is characterized as the manifest expression of a ?secular? Indian nationalism and Muslims are labelled as terrorist. When Muslims are the victims of the attack then Hindu nationalism turns into ?communalism?.