Mosque near ground zero

[Kriterion]

That building was damaged in the 9/11 attacks perpetrated by your co-religionists. So technically, it is part of the destruction caused on that day.

regardless, its not what is conjured up in the minds of people when they think of ground zero. prior to 9/11, even i thought there were only 2 bldgs in the WTC...i'll be willing to bet 90% of americans (the target audience of the media) still think there were only 2 bldgs there. hence to them ground zero means on the actual site of the massaccre...the actual site 2 blocks away was almost certainly evacuated before the bldg came down...so no one actually died there.

As usual you have got it all wrong. Muslims have EVERY RIGHT TO BE OFFENDED by the cartoons. Only, they DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO BE VIOLENT about it. I havent seen any Native American say that they are insulted by construction of buildings.

agreed. but thats not what the majority of the critics are saying or did say...they're saying "so what, get over it". they're not criticizing the violent muslims...the violent muslims are the reason they print the cartoons every few months. they're criticizing the muslims who got offended. so i did get over it. but now i want to see if they will "get over" this. and i must specify, that while i don't agree with them, anyone who is a survivor or a family member of a victim, i can understand, if not condone them for opposing the mosque. this is for the persons who think its their patriotic duty to oppoise mosque building.

Now, the organization that is building the mosque is the Cordoba Foundation. It supposedly is funded from Malaysia (though they decline to reveal the funding source). Why are the Malaysians funding the mosque, why is it not being funded solely by American Muslims?

circular flow of money means that all money comes and goes from teh same place, so its a moot point.

[Clarke]

Kriterion, we're not discussing Tennessee here, the liberal people of NYC are surely more accommodating than some redneck politican in Tennessee. There exists irrational hatred no doubt in some cases, but for effs sake this is 9/11 territory. As a matter of fact, this is the opportunity for the community to show a bit of flexibility and gain some respect that will serve you well. USA has been far more liberal in accepting the burqas and minarets than some other developed nations and this is where you try to reciprocate in kind, at least that's what i would say. This does not apply to any other mosque anywhere else, this is about 9/11. I find the unequivocal support for the mosque from the American muslims rather strange; gone through comments on various news articles online, forums/message boards and youtube comments and am yet to see a single olive branch/white flag on this issue. Just what makes this particular mosque so important ?

[seedhi]

agreed. but thats not what the majority of the critics are saying or did say...they're saying "so what' date=' get over it". they're not criticizing the violent muslims...the violent muslims are the reason they print the cartoons every few months. they're criticizing the muslims who got offended. so i did get over it. but now i want to see if they will "get over" this.[/quote']I am sorry, it is exactly because of the violent muslims that these things even become an issue. For example, Hindu/Buddhist Gods are frequently made fun of in the USA/Europe. Hindus/Buddhists do protest in a low key manner - by writing letters and putting out statements. They dont go around burning embassies, issuing death sentences and slaughtering artists.

circular flow of money means that all money comes and goes from teh same place, so its a moot point.

The organization refuses to part with information about where it receives its money from.

true, but equally true is that the island on which they are trying to build it on is called manhattan, which we also "conquered" from the natives. so we are the last people to criticize someone for doing something we have done ourselves, unless we're willing to criticize ourselves also.

Who among the Native Americans are protesting building structures in NY? Secondly, and more importantly, it is generally recognized in the US that a lot of injustices were done to the Native Americans. I dont see any remorse about the havoc Islamic invasions wreaked in various parts of the world. At least the Americans have recognized what their ancestors did to the natives was grave injustice. When are the muslims going to recognize that invaders like Ghazini, Ghauri, Abdali, Khilji etc were nothing but plunderers and bigots of the worst kind. Instead their acts of mass violence is celebrated and missiles are named after them.

sure, if they were personally affected.

No, the right to be offended is ABSOLUTE, it doesnt matter if the person is or is not directly affected. Just like cartoons of Mohammad dont directly affect anyone, but muslims all over the world take offense.

but what about the mosque in TN? this is clearly proof that its not just about the sensitivity, but rather an expression of prejudice.

I dont know about any mosque issue in TN. This is about the one at Ground Zero.

[Kriterion]

I am sorry, it is exactly because of the violent muslims that these things even become an issue. For example, Hindu/Buddhist Gods are frequently made fun of in the USA/Europe. Hindus/Buddhists do protest in a low key manner - by writing letters and putting out statements. They dont go around burning embassies, issuing death sentences and slaughtering artists.

agreed. but the criticism isn't merely aimed at the violent muslims, is it? is there an asterisk at the bottom of the cartoon that says "* for violent muslims only". when the advocates of the cartoons say that muslims should get over it, do they say "the violent muslims should get over it"? as far as i know, they include me in with the violent muslims, even though i don't really care about the cartoons one way or the other. this indicates its not just an issue about muslims rioting, but about muslims being offended in the first place. so no, muslims, according to those people, do NOT have the right to be offended.

The organization refuses to part with information about where it receives its money from.

why is it even an issue? lets suppose the money comes from the illegal drug trade...does it matter if the money is "clean" or not? $100 million dollars is $100 million dollars. the value of the money is the same, there is no difference. the origin of the money has no bearing on this "mosque", or any other mosque for that matter. its merely a case of presuming guilt before innocence.

Who among the Native Americans are protesting building structures in NY?

exactly my point. the native americans have every right to be offended by buildings in manhattan...its just that they can't complain because we killed them all.

Secondly, and more importantly, it is generally recognized in the US that a lot of injustices were done to the Native Americans. I dont see any remorse about the havoc Islamic invasions wreaked in various parts of the world. At least the Americans have recognized what their ancestors did to the natives was grave injustice. When are the muslims going to recognize that invaders like Ghazini, Ghauri, Abdali, Khilji etc were nothing but plunderers and bigots of the worst kind.

there have been plenty of statements, some fake and some geniuine, by American (and other) muslim groups condemning terrorism etc. i condemn terrorism and Ghazni, et al.

Instead their acts of mass violence is celebrated and missiles are named after them. No, the right to be offended is ABSOLUTE, it doesnt matter if the person is or is not directly affected. Just like cartoons of Mohammad dont directly affect anyone, but muslims all over the world take offense. I dont know about any mosque issue in TN. This is about the one at Ground Zero.

india has an airport named after Shivaji...the US has warships/universities/streets/cities named after slave owners and such. my undergraduate alma mater actually has a building named after Nathan Bedford Forrest, one of the founders of the Ku Klux Klan. pakistan's missiles and its 160 million muslims cannot possibly represent the world's 1.5 billion. if anyone believes that, then they must be retarded.

[Brainfade]

Another twist in this tale. http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/aug/10/tax-dollars-to-build-mosques/

EDITORIAL: Tax dollars to build mosques U.S. underwrites fundraising tour for Islamic shrine at Ground Zero The State Department is sending Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf - the mastermind of the Ground Zero Mosque - on a trip through the Middle East to foster "greater understanding" about Islam and Muslim communities in the United States. However, important questions are being raised about whether this is simply a taxpayer-funded fundraising jaunt to underwrite his reviled project, which is moving ahead in Lower Manhattan. Mr. Rauf is scheduled to go to Saudi Arabia, Dubai, Abu Dhabi, Bahrain and Qatar, the usual stops for Gulf-based fundraising. The State Department defends the five-country tour saying that Mr. Rauf is "a distinguished Muslim cleric," but surely the government could find another such figure in the United States who is not seeking millions of dollars to fund a construction project that has so strongly divided America. By funding the trip so soon after New York City's Landmarks Preservation Commission gave the go-ahead to demolish the building on the proposed mosque site, the State Department is creating the appearance that the U.S. government is facilitating the construction of this shameful structure. It gives Mr. Rauf not only access but imprimatur to gather up foreign cash. And because Mr. Rauf has refused to reveal how he plans to finance his costly venture, the American public is left with the impression it will be a wholly foreign enterprise. This contradicts the argument that a mosque is needed in that part of New York City to provide services for a burgeoning Muslim population. If so many people need the mosque so badly, presumably they could figure out a way to pay for it themselves. Americans also may be surprised to learn that the United States has been an active participant in mosque construction projects overseas. In April, U.S. Ambassador to Tanzania Alfonso E. Lenhardt helped cut the ribbon at the 12th-century Kizimkazi Mosque, which was refurbished with assistance from the United States under a program to preserve culturally significant buildings. The U.S. government also helped save the Amr Ebn El Aas Mosque in Cairo, which dates back to 642. The mosque's namesake was the Muslim conqueror of Christian Egypt, who built the structure on the site where he had pitched his tent before doing battle with the country's Byzantine rulers. For those who think the Ground Zero Mosque is an example of "Muslim triumphalism" glorifying conquest, the Amr Ebn El Aas Mosque is an example of such a monument - and one paid for with U.S. taxpayer funds. The mosques being rebuilt by the United States are used for religious worship, which raises important First Amendment questions. U.S. taxpayer money should not be used to preserve and promote Islam, even abroad. In July 2009, the Office of the Inspector General published an audit of U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID) faith-based and community initiatives that examined whether government funds were being used for religious activities. The auditors found that while USAID was funding some religious activities, officials were "uncertain of whether such uses of Agency funding violate Agency regulations or the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment to the Constitution" when balanced against foreign-policy objectives. For example, our government rebuilt the Al Shuhada Mosque in Fallujah, Iraq, expecting such benefits as "stimulating the economy, enhancing a sense of pride in the community, reducing opposition to international relief organizations operating in Fallujah, and reducing incentives among young men to participate in violence or insurgent groups." But Section 205.1(d) of title 22 of the Code of Federal Regulations prohibits USAID funds from being used for the rehabilitation of structures to the extent that those structures are used for "inherently religious activities." It is impossible to separate religion from a mosque; any such projects will necessarily support Islam. The State Department is either wittingly or unwittingly using tax money to support Mr. Rauf's efforts to realize his dream of a supersized mosque blocks away from the sacred ground of the former World Trade Center, which was destroyed by Islamic fanaticism. This ill-considered decision will raise the ire of millions of Americans and illustrates the limits of what the denizens of Foggy Bottom know about diplomacy.

[Clarke]

Another twist in this tale.

The imam had been selected by the dubya administration for the same role earlier and is just carrying on with business as usual. It would be silly to replace him, they should have simply postponed this trip.

[Brainfade]

The imam had been selected by the dubya administration for the same role earlier and is just carrying on with business as usual. It would be silly to replace him' date=' they should have simply postponed this trip.[/quote'] No need to replace him - but state sponsorship for a trip? I scratch my head.

[Clarke]

No need to replace him - but state sponsorship for a trip? I scratch my head.

They don't want to pack up from the civilization of clashes i.e. middle east; might as well send someone once in a while, i guess :idunno:

[Ram]

Did anyone see the Daily show piece by Jon Stewart on this issue earlier this week? To an extent, I can understand why there’s opposition to the building of an Islamic center (actually, seems like it not even a mosque) near the 9/11 site. But now, there is opposition to the building of Mosques and Islamic centers all over the country, starting from Wisconsin, all the way to California. That is a dangerous trend.

[The Outsider]

Why is it dangerous to stop a violent ideology from propagating ?

Kyonki dada aap ka phavorite desh, US, does not consider it a 'violent ideology' but a religion guarded by the the Phirsshht Ammmindmaant.

[The Outsider]

Namaste chachaji :woot: waisey aap kahan sey ? :hmmm:

Kahan se pata nahin, but going to DC for some work and bored to death. Flat freeway, shrouded by artificially planted trees now in near darkness. As an aside for anyone traveling from NYC to Boston/DC, don't fly/drive anymore. They have these absolute jhakaas bus services now with leather seats, WiFi, and all the works which get you there in 4 hours. Just getting to JFK/LGA can take you 2 hours on a slightly bad day.

[Clarke]

Did anyone see the Daily show piece by Jon Stewart on this issue earlier this week? To an extent, I can understand why there’s opposition to the building of an Islamic center (actually, seems like it not even a mosque) near the 9/11 site. But now, there is opposition to the building of Mosques and Islamic centers all over the country, starting from Wisconsin, all the way to California. That is a dangerous trend.

What would Hitchens do :P I used to wonder what Islamophobia meant .. i do not any more.

[Ram]

As an aside for anyone traveling from NYC to Boston/DC, don't fly/drive anymore. They have these absolute jhakaas bus services now with leather seats, WiFi, and all the works which get you there in 4 hours. Just getting to JFK/LGA can take you 2 hours on a slightly bad day.

Megabus FTW! :woot::two_thumbs_up:

[The Outsider]

Megabus FTW! :woot::two_thumbs_up:

Check out Vamoose Bus - their Gold service. Fracking awesome! :woot:

[Ram]

Check out Vamoose Bus - their Gold service. Fracking awesome! :woot:

Vamoose bus? :hmmm: the name sounds dodgier than 'Naike' or 'Reebuk'..::hmmm: But seriously check out megabus... If you book early enough and and if you're willing to travel odd hours, NYC to DC for $1. :woot:

[Ram]

What would Hitchens do :P I used to wonder what Islamophobia meant .. i do not any more.

Please dont bring his name up. :((

[coffee_rules]

More 9/11 timed Muslim Holidays this year..Oh boy!... NEW YORK – The lunar calendar that Muslims follow for religious holidays is creating a potential for misunderstandings or worse in a year when American Muslims are already confronting a spike in assaults on their faith and protests against new mosques. Eid al-Fitr, a joyous holiday marking the end of the holy month of Ramadan, this year falls around Sept. 11. Muslim leaders fear that their gatherings for prayer and festivities could be misinterpreted by those unfamiliar with Islam as a celebration of the 2001 terrorist strikes. The Muslim Public Affairs Council, an advocacy group based in Los Angeles, is contacting law enforcement and the Justice Department civil rights division to alert them to the overlap. The Islamic Circle of North America, which organizes Muslim Family Days at the Six Flags amusement park in several cities around Eid al-Fitr, this year planned nothing for Saturday, Sept. 11, because of the anniversary. A founder of Muslim Family Day, Tariq Amanullah, worked at the World Trade Center and was killed in the attacks. The Council on American-Islamic Relations, a Washington-based civil rights group, is urging mosques to review the group's security guidelines, including clearing brush where people could hide and installing surveillance cameras. "The issue I can sense brewing on hate sites on the Internet is, `These Muslims are celebrating on September 11,'" said Ibrahim Hooper, national spokesman for CAIR. "It's getting really scary out there." The exact date of Eid al-Fitr this year is not yet known. Muslims follow different authorities on moonsightings and astronomical calculations to decide when a holiday begins. In North America, the eid could fall on Thursday, Sept. 9, Friday, Sept. 10, or Saturday, Sept. 11. It is one of the two biggest Muslim holidays of the year, often compared to Christmas in its significance and revelry. (The other major holiday is Eid al-Adha, at the end of the hajj, the annual pilgrimage to Mecca.) Muslims who rarely attend congregational prayer fill mosques to overflowing on Eid al-Fitr. Mosque leaders often rent hotel ballrooms or convention centers to handle the crowds. Families wear their best clothes, exchange gifts, plan special meals with friends and relatives, sometimes decorate their homes inside and out, and organize carnivals for children. In predominantly Muslim countries, the celebration can last for three days. But because of work and school obligations in the U.S., American Muslims generally attend congregational prayer on the day of the holiday, then continue the festivities over the next weekend or two. Most mosques usually intensify security around Ramadan because of the attention the month brings. This year, leaders have grown especially concerned about safety. In recent months, mosques around the country have faced protests and vandalism. The debate over a proposed mosque and Islamic center near ground zero has become a national issue. Yet well before these recent tensions, American Muslim leaders saw trouble ahead when they checked the calendar. Haroon Moghul, a New York Muslim leader who speaks regularly at mosques, said mosque leaders have been discussing Eid al-Fitr for months. "When we realized that Ramadan would be ending around that time, a lot of people started sitting down together and saying, `How do we handle this in a way that's appropriate?'" said Moghul, executive director of Maydan Institute, a communications consulting company. Moghul said most New York Muslims likely won't celebrate the way they normally do, and noted that a significant number lost relatives when the World Trade Center was destroyed. Many imams in the city plan sermons on dealing with loss and grief. "It's a very painful day for everyone," Moghul said. However, he and other American Muslim leaders don't want to make so many changes that they appear to be giving in to those who reject any Muslim observance in the United States. Some critics have said Muslims should move the date of the eid. "It's like being offended that 9/11 and Christmas fall on the same day," said Safaa Zarzour, secretary general of the Islamic Society of North America, an Indiana-based communal group with tens of thousands of members. "There is something unsettling about that." Yvonne Maffei, 35, of Des Plaines, Ill., a Chicago suburb, said she and her husband plan to stick with their usual Eid al-Fitr plan. They will attend morning prayers at their local mosque, go out for brunch then visit friends during the day. "I think most Americans understand the value and place of religious holidays in a person's life," said Maffei, editor of My Halal Kitchen, a blog with recipes that meet Islamic dietary laws. "For those who don't, I just hope they will take the time to try and understand not only why we are celebrating at this time, but also what we are celebrating, which is the end of the holy month of Ramadan, a blessed month of fasting and attaining closeness to Allah." Rizwan Jaka, a board member of the All Dulles Area Muslim Society, based in Sterling, Va., near Washington, D.C., said he hopes the attention to Muslim traditions during the month of Ramadan will help educate non-Muslims and decrease the likelihood of any problems. He said the mosque will reach out to its interfaith partners and others ahead of the eid. The All Dulles Society is one of the largest mosques in the country and expects to host as many as 20,000 worshippers during the holiday at several locations. Jaka said the board met a few weeks ago to discuss the overlapping dates and decided to include condemnations of terrorism and extremism in the holiday sermons. The mosque will also hold its annual interfaith, memorial and peace events tied to the anniversary. "Could there be some misperceptions because of the anti-Muslim climate? Potentially," Jaka said. "We will make sure our neighbors and friends understand that we all stand firmly as Americans for peace and for creating an environment of respect."

[Kriterion]

You are clubbing Shivaji along with KKK ' date=' Slave owners etc ? There better be a explanation for this.[/quote'] sure why not? shivaji was an Indian war hero not very different from George Washington or others like Ben Franklin or Thomas Jefferson.

[TSAG_RGB]

Greg Gutfeld Wants to Build Gay Bar Next to 'Ground Zero' Mosque

This is a rush transcript from "Glenn Beck," August 10, 2010. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated. GLENN BECK, HOST: Earlier, I talked about a mosque being built near the World Trade Center. There's another building that has been proposed to be built next to the World Trade Center site. This establishment — like the World Trade Center mosque — also claims to promote integration, tolerance, community cohesion. Here to explain is Greg Gutfeld, the host of the show "Red Eye" on the Fox News Channel — when your eyes would be red — and the author of "The Bible of Unspeakable Truths," which you have to read. It's laugh-out-loud funny. OK. So, Greg — GREG GUTFELD, HOST, "RED EYE": Yes. BECK: Give me your proposal. GUTFELD: Well, you know, I was thinking — I went on to their Web site, the Cordoba House website. It's a lovely website, and they talk about preaching tolerance and communication. And I thought how interesting is it that they are preaching tolerance and communication to Americans? I thought, wouldn't it be great to test their tolerance? So I figured let's open an Islam-friendly gay bar next door to the mosque. That is my proposal and I'm sticking by it. I'm not a good businessman and I'm a terrible activist, but this might be the greatest idea I've ever had. BECK: But you are very, very funny. GUTFELD: So — am I joking, is what you're asking? BECK: I mean — what I'm saying is — well, give me some of the names of the - GUTFELD: Well, I like — I like Ji-Hot. BECK: Ji-Hot? GITFELD: Or Ji-Hunk. How about Infidelicious? Or Turban Cowboy? BECK: Yes. GUTFELD: You like Turban Cowboy? BECK: My favorite? GUTFELD: What? BECK: Suspicious Packages. GUTFELD: Yes. That's a nice one. (LAUGHTER) GUTFELD: Yes. Rama-Dam. Yes. There are other ones that I don't think I should mention. BECK: You Mecca-Me-Hot? (LAUGHTER) GUTFELD: Yes. BECK: So now, what would the — what would the — the idea again is you go in to "Suspicious Packages" — GUTFELD: Yes. BECK: Which is just — it's a gay bar. GUTFELD: Yes. Yes, it is, next to a mosque. BECK: Next to the World Trade Center mosque. GUTFELD: Exactly. And there will be no alcohol there, Glenn, so you can come. BECK: OK. Really? GUTFELD: Because Muslims don't drink alcohol. BECK: Yes. Neither do I. GUTFELD: So the bar will have 72 virgin drinks. BECK: Really? GUTFELD: Yes. BECK: Now, this is to teach what exactly? Tolerance — GUTFELD: Tolerance and communication. BECK: Right. GUTFELD: You know, the way that New York is going to accept the mosque, the mosque should accept a gay bar. You see that? BECK: Yes. GUTFELD: The correlation — BECK: Now, as someone who wouldn't want this gay bar built next to my church or, you know, a temple of mine, do you think it might be a little over the top? GUTFELD: No. I think it has to be done, Glenn. It has to be done. And if I'm not the person to do it, somebody must do it. BECK: Somebody must do it? GUTFELD: But I have a lot of people that are interested in backing me for this. And I'm telling you, this is the greatest thing ever, because right now, I contacted the Cordoba House. I wrote them. I e-mailed them. They didn't respond. But I tweeted them and they tweeted me back. BECK: And what did they say? GUTFELD: They said, "You are free to open whatever you like. If you won't consider the sensibilities of Muslims, you are not going to build dialogue." BECK: Oh. GUTFELD: Yes. And you know I love to build dialogue. BECK: Sure. Especially — you do that at Grind Zeros. GUTFELD: Exactly. BECK: Check out Greg Gutfeld's show, "Red Eye," on the Fox News Channel. You're not serious? GUTFELD: I'm deadly serious, Glenn. BECK: At Fox News Channel — airs weekdays at 3:00 a.m. ET for a reason. — Watch "Glenn Beck" weekdays at 5 p.m. ET on Fox News Channel

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,599202,00.html :hysterical::hysterical::hysterical:

[someone]

Would absolutely love to see the reaction of these so called freedom believers muslim regarding the gay bar. The sight really would be brilliant seeing gays around the ground zero