head coach Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 The "Untouchables" of India - in Hindu, the "Dalit" - are 160 million people now suffering a form of racist, economic bondage many have compared to apartheid in South Africa. Comprising one-sixth the population of the largest nation on the planet, the Dalit are barred from equal access to schools, hospitals, the courts, and the police. Dalit cannot use common village wells or places of worship, cannot own land without restriction, or even drink from cups used by other castes at corner tea stands. Millions live as slaves and thousands of Dalit girls are forced into prostitution each year. Apartheid raised an outcry. Yet the Dalit are exploited and the world pays little notice. Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CC1981 Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 Re: The Untouchables Apartheid raised outcry because it was official government policy. Dalit tragedy does not because it is not and its also not so clear-cut between one group suffering and others not ( there are zillions of upper cast really poor/abused people too. There were hardly any really opressed saffie white during apartheid). Ie, it is not a legislative ill but a social one because India to this day is very very caste concious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
head coach Posted February 27, 2007 Author Share Posted February 27, 2007 Re: The Untouchables Apartheid was very visible but caste system in India is invisible. CC, you got to agree that as of today, the caste system remains the most complex, the most evil system of oppression devised by mankind. It is far worse than racism and it involves millions more people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CC1981 Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 Re: The Untouchables Apartheid was very visible but caste system in India is invisible. CC, you got to agree that as of today, the caste system remains the most complex, the most evil system of oppression devised by mankind. It is far worse than racism and it involves millions more people. It is, not even close to being the worst, most evil opressive system devised by mankind. I am not gonna defend the obvious inherent dark aspect to it but i do believe you are exgaggerating several fold. In many ways arguably, racism is the worst form because you cannot escape it. Simple example : You are a dalit - you read a bit of the gita, you move to a new area of India and call yourself a brahmin. If you know your stuff, its not going to be challenged. But if you are black and its anti-black racism, nomatter where you go within the country, you are facked. Invisibility makes escape across the porous boundary easier. But this invisibility of caste system also makes it harder to irradicate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
head coach Posted February 27, 2007 Author Share Posted February 27, 2007 Re: The Untouchables I agree with you on the social mobility in caste system. Lower-caste individuals could seek to elevate the status of their caste by attempting to emulate the practices of higher castes. However, regardless of the education or social position of members of lower castes, they still experience caste discrimination, and social mobility is restricted by the behaviours of upper caste members in Indian society which is prevalent unitl today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kumble_rocks Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 Re: The Untouchables Social Mobility ? :huh: There is hardly any social mobilty. Only now, something is being about the plight of Dalits. Let's face it , Dalit are some of the most oppressed people in the world. Upper caste Hinuds on an average are much better off than a Dalit even today. I am sure , even in this board , most of the folks are upper caste Hindus. Quote -) Lower-caste individuals could seek to elevate the status of their caste by attempting to emulate the practices of higher castes. Why ? They should attempt to emulate the practices of a good human being just like everybody else, not some upper caste hindu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 Re: The Untouchables Apartheid raised an outcry. Yet the Dalit are exploited and the world pays little notice. Why? HC, You will have to be specific about this. Any particular states you mean when you talk about exploitation of dalits? I mean I come from one of the states that is alleged to be the leader in caste-based politics and I would say Dalit exploitation is a myth really. This doesn't mean all Dalits are richest people but that a Dalit today has as much oppertunity as any other caste. One interesting thing that I have seen is that of late the discrimination of Dalits happens to come at the hands of "Lower" Caste, and not "Forward" Caste. Please note that I have put lower and upper in quotes as I do not beleive in that concept. Still to continue the point, I would have perhaps hoped that Lower caste people having faced the stick from upper caste would sympathise and help the Dalits. The actuality is opposite though. Waise when you made that comment did you have any particular region in mind? xx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
head coach Posted February 27, 2007 Author Share Posted February 27, 2007 Re: The Untouchables Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
head coach Posted February 27, 2007 Author Share Posted February 27, 2007 Re: The Untouchables Apartheid raised an outcry. Yet the Dalit are exploited and the world pays little notice. Why? Waise when you made that comment did you have any particular region in mind? xx Lurker, Tamilnadu was one state that was in my mind. Dravidian parties have drifted away from the ideals of "Periyar" E.V. Ramasami and one of the reasons is competitive politics between DMK and AIDMK. In north you are aware about the Dalits' lynching in the cow-slaughter theory that took place at Haryana. As you know Dalit oppression is still a bad mark in midst of all the development that is taking place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kumble_rocks Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 Re: The Untouchables :wtg: VHP/RSS , are you listening ? :chin: :chin: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 Re: The Untouchables Lurker, Tamilnadu was one state that was in my mind. Dravidian parties have drifted away from the ideals of "Periyar" E.V. Ramasami and one of the reasons is competitive politics between DMK and AIDMK. In north you are aware about the Dalits' lynching in the cow-slaughter theory that took place at Haryana. As you know Dalit oppression is still a bad mark in midst of all the development that is taking place. HC, I must admit that I am not too much knowledgable when it comes to caste-based demography of South. In fact I am not much versed with North Indian demography as well but atleast based on surnames one gets some idea(not that I am proud of it). I say that because I have heard that South India has lot more reservation. In Educational Institutions, Jobs etc. Hence anti-reservation processions are almost exclusive to North India where the reservation level is lot less. When you mention Tamil Nadu I think that with more reservations the treatment should only be better for Dalits, right? Or is it the other way around? xxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
head coach Posted February 27, 2007 Author Share Posted February 27, 2007 Re: The Untouchables When you mention Tamil Nadu I think that with more reservations the treatment should only be better for Dalits, right? Or is it the other way around? xxx Lurker, That's what the world thinks, read these examples: Subramanian's son, Muthukrishnan (23), explained how he lost a Central government job because of the hostile attitude of the caste Hindus. Four years ago, an Extra Departmental Post Office was sanctioned for the village and he was called for an interview to the post of a sub-post master, reserved for the Scheduled Castes. He arranged for the security deposit for the purpose, but he could not attend the interview because the caste Hindus opposed it on the grounds that they cannot stand before a Dalit boy to buy stamps and other postal articles. He is currently holding the position in another village, which was prepared to provide space for the post office. M. Kalyani (23) had a similar experience when she could not respond to a call for an interview for the post of a nutritional meal administrator reserved for the S.Cs. S. Mariappan (38), a painter, said he had to leave the village when he bought a two-wheeler which he thought would help him take up assignments in neighbouring villages and towns. The reason: he could not ride the vehicle through the caste Hindu streets. S. Ganesan (25), a physically disabled person, could not for a long time use the tricycle presented to him by the government because the caste Hindu "road rules" could not be violated. It needed a lot of "recommendation" and persuasive skill to convince them of his need for the vehicle. Even the family of M.S. Muthiah cannot use the public tap located in front of its little home, because the tap is not meant for Dalits. To get water, they have to walk to the Dalit "colony" some distance away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaurav Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 Re: The Untouchables Yeah truly messed up and heart breaking. Man that beautiful girl at the end seemed very intelligent. Breaks my heart to see people getting treated like that for no fault of theirs India and Hindus need to fix this shit. They are all our brothers and sisters! Chadi walla RSS/VHP kya kar rahin hain? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
head coach Posted February 27, 2007 Author Share Posted February 27, 2007 Re: The Untouchables Yeah truly messed up and heart breaking. Man that beautiful girl at the end seemed very intelligent. Breaks my heart to see people getting treated like that for no fault of theirs India and Hindus need to fix this ****. They are all our brothers and sisters! Chadi walla RSS/VHP kya kar rahin hain? Well they tried on banning conversion to resist Dalits getting converted to Buddhism and Chistianity but always remained impious at the state of affairs of Dalit in the country Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anakin Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 Re: The Untouchables It's a shameful practise and should be banned and decimated every way possible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Tendulkar Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 Re: The Untouchables It's a shameful practise and should be banned and decimated every way possible Totally agree. Casteism is a disgrace and makes me weep how it is still having some influence in India. This is despite all types of laws to decimate it. It will go eventually but it will take another 40 years minimum. People object to quotas but in many ways it has to be there to solve this problem. Otherwise untouchables will never get accetpted to many things if quotas are not there to get them in. Only then will the untouchables improve and climb the social ladder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
head coach Posted February 27, 2007 Author Share Posted February 27, 2007 Re: The Untouchables Chunni Lal Jatav, a survivor of the Kumher massacre in Rajasthan, once put it famously. "All the judges of the Supreme Court do not have the power of a single police constable. That constable makes or breaks us. The judges can't re-write the laws and have to listen to learned lawyers of both sides. A constable here simply makes his own laws. He can do almost anything." This is the simple fact. Whatever legal system is in place this change has to go into the minds of people especially upper caste Hindus to irradicate this disease in Hindu religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kabira Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 Re: The Untouchables head coach its not only problem with Hinduism... its our society..Even muslims have such issues...casteism exists there.. these days untouchability exists in remote places, and I dont know how to get rid of that...My wife has few christian friends in Hyderabad. and boy they are more cast consicious than any hindu I have ever seend. It will take time....Even today America has shades of racism..the monster that exists for centuries does not go away in a decade..I believe it will take another 30-40 years for our society to mature. Even then, you will see odd cases.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
head coach Posted February 27, 2007 Author Share Posted February 27, 2007 Re: The Untouchables head coach its not only problem with Hinduism... its our society..Even muslims have such issues...casteism exists there.. these days untouchability exists in remote places, and I dont know how to get rid of that...My wife has few christian friends in Hyderabad. and boy they are more cast consicious than any hindu I have ever seend. It will take time....Even today America has shades of racism..the monster that exists for centuries does not go away in a decade..I believe it will take another 30-40 years for our society to mature. Even then, you will see odd cases.. Kabira, It would have been much easier if Hindu religion could wash their hands off by saying it is something in the society not in the religion as such. I hope you would agree that the structure of different levels of the system: Brahman, Kshatriya, Vaishya, Shudra, and Harijans came from Hindu religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kabira Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 Re: The Untouchables >I hope you would agree that the structure of different levels of the system: Brahman, Kshatriya, Vaishya, Shudra, and Harijans came from Hindu religion. it was based on occupation, not based by birth. Hinduism clearly believes in "Karma" and "Dharma". For example, Karna (suppose to be son of Sarathi) was recognized as Kshatriya because of his occupation... Its because of some greedy priests, this system became by birth... even today we have our society divided in different sects, rich, middleclass, poor...Engineers, Doctors, Lawyers...but none of this is by birth.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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