Dhondy Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 If the Birbal/Bheem line of thought is to be taken credibly, we are all incorrigible SKCs. Please note how these two have chosen Indian monickers rather than westernized ones like Apocalypse or Holysmoke. Heck, Bumper and Lurker might as well hang their heads in shame for adopting cravenly westernized ids. Seriously though, do the two bees have a point? Are we just dyed-in-the-wool gora worshippers, the sort who refuse to recognize a fellow Indian's contributions until the accolades stream in from the west? The evidence is compelling. Rabindranath Tagore was just another playright until he became the cynosure of all eyes with his Nobel award. On the other hand, nobody knows arguably Bengal's greatest author Saratchandra Chattopadhaya outside India's shores. Neither did Amrita Pritam win the recognition, the reverence she always deserved for her incredible talent. Satyajit Ray remains an abiding memory in people's minds as the genius director, but Guru Dutt died the lonely death of a lovelorn alcoholic. Ray's contemporary Mrinal Sen probably still lives in a two bed room flat in one of Calcutta's less fashionable suburbs. Swami Vivekananda shot to international fame after his epochal address at the Chicago theology meeting, but Swami Pranavanada, the founder of Bharat Sevashram Sangh, has few takers. Khushwant Singh, arguably the most readable author of his genre for his earthy, straight-from-the heart pieces remains underrated, yet pretenders such as Arundhati Roy rake in the loot, based on one overrated, and completely unreadable novel that won rave reviews in the west. The new generation Indians rave about Sabir Bhatia, but nobody remembers the most philanthropic industrialist of all, JRD Tata, the man who took Jamshedji Nusserwanji Tata's TISCO into the modern age, and almost as an afterthought, kickstarted Indian Airlines. Are we just a nation of self-loathers then, given to emerging from our melancholic self-castigation every so often one of us shines on an occidental stage? Can you think of any contrasting examples....of instances where an Indian who commanded the respect of peers in the West did not make it big within his own borders? Please, please prove Birbal and Bheem wrong. After all, we don't want Bumps or Lurks to change their logins now, do we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoda Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 Re: Are We All SKCs? No one gives a squat about our cricket team, but we follow them day and night, 24x7, win or lose. There goes the theory of generalization. :hmph: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aditi Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 Re: Are We All SKCs? What's an "SKC"?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apocalypse Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 Re: Are We All SKCs? edited... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predator_05 Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 Re: Are We All SKCs? What's an "SKC"?? Sachin ka chooha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holysmoke Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 Re: Are We All SKCs? my id comes from a "TANTRA" shirt, which i saw in Mumbai when i was 13 years old. it had a picture of a sadhu smoking.. and thats what was written. :hmph: Can you think of any contrasting examples....of instances where an Indian who commanded the respect of peers in the West did not make it big within his own borders? VVS Laxman is the first thing that comes to mind. Most Aussies and Saffies cant understand why he isnt a permanent fixture in both teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kabira Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 Re: Are We All SKCs? SKC=> Sharukh Khan ke Chahite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rajiv Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 Re: Are We All SKCs? Actually, what is SKC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 Re: Are We All SKCs? Dhondy. Let me first say that I am not quite sure as to the very basic premise of your post. Broadly speaking I suppose you are suggesting that Indians, by and large, celebrate a person if that personality has been celebrated by non-Indians first. If that is your premise then you are mistaken. The thing is this: one does not have to blindly support anything simply because its Indian. If one does that then he/she is basically a chauvinistic nationalist. A good example is how people claim Kumble is greatest spinner ever. Great yes, greatest? errr no. With regards to your example I must say they are for a snapshot of population. I wont speak for others but I definitely do not place someone Sabir Bhatia in the same class as a JRD. Matter of fact I doubt most Indians do. Do you think anyone in Begusarai knows of Sabeer Bhatia? Errrr no. Tata? Yes. I beleive the problem doesnt like with SKC(whatever that means) but with the very basic problem that Indians do not always know their history and culture. This is partly understandable since we have such a rich history and varied culture. But at the same time it fails understanding that possibly more Indians today might have seen White House than Taj Mahal. Certainly lot more Indians would have seen White House than the Banyan tree under which Siddhartha became Gautam Buddha. I have often mentioned, and I stand by it, that Indians do not know much about their history. And so while they are quick to dismiss a Keith Miller as "figment of Western appreciation" they are also found wanting to suggest " Okay if Miller was Australian nugget we had our own nugget -Salim Durrani". I remember sometime back I had written an article that started with an Introduction by the greatest story writer in modern India, certainly the greatest in Hindi-Urdu echleon, Premchand. It was surprising that on a thread which went past 150, no one ever discussed Premchand's stand itself, or the story from which I had picked up those words(its Karbala by the way) but it was almost exclusive a "yeah right we should know about them while they go ahead and kill us" rant. xxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kumble_rocks Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 Re: Are We All SKCs? If the Birbal/Bheem line of thought is to be taken credibly, we are all incorrigible SKCs. Please note how these two have chosen Indian monickers rather than westernized ones like Apocalypse or Holysmoke. Heck, Bumper and Lurker might as well hang their heads in shame for adopting cravenly westernized ids. Seriously though, do the two bees have a point? Are we just dyed-in-the-wool gora worshippers, the sort who refuse to recognize a fellow Indian's contributions until the accolades stream in from the west? The evidence is compelling. Rabindranath Tagore was just another playright until he became the cynosure of all eyes with his Nobel award. On the other hand, nobody knows arguably Bengal's greatest author Saratchandra Chattopadhaya outside India's shores. Neither did Amrita Pritam win the recognition, the reverence she always deserved for her incredible talent. Satyajit Ray remains an abiding memory in people's minds as the genius director, but Guru Dutt died the lonely death of a lovelorn alcoholic. Ray's contemporary Mrinal Sen probably still lives in a two bed room flat in one of Calcutta's less fashionable suburbs. Swami Vivekananda shot to international fame after his epochal address at the Chicago theology meeting, but Swami Pranavanada, the founder of Bharat Sevashram Sangh, has few takers. Khushwant Singh, arguably the most readable author of his genre for his earthy, straight-from-the heart pieces remains underrated, yet pretenders such as Arundhati Roy rake in the loot, based on one overrated, and completely unreadable novel that won rave reviews in the west. The new generation Indians rave about Sabir Bhatia, but nobody remembers the most philanthropic industrialist of all, JRD Tata, the man who took Jamshedji Nusserwanji Tata's TISCO into the modern age, and almost as an afterthought, kickstarted Indian Airlines. Are we just a nation of self-loathers then, given to emerging from our melancholic self-castigation every so often one of us shines on an occidental stage? Can you think of any contrasting examples....of instances where an Indian who commanded the respect of peers in the West did not make it big within his own borders? Please, please prove Birbal and Bheem wrong. After all, we don't want Bumps or Lurks to change their logins now, do we? Just going through your well articulated post , one thing struck me immediately.Pardon me , but I have to point out that you failed to mention any south indians in your post while referencing Indian greats . I know , this is just a honest slip or the fact that this is just a short post by you, but I think your post would encapsulate the message better if a South Indian like Kalam or Narayan Murthy is also included. After all we are discussing jaundiced views here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CC1981 Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 Re: Are We All SKCs? Here we go again. I hope the southies who think they are 'ignored/malaigned' by the Northies realize that the most ignored and excluded area of India is the 7 sister states. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dhondy Posted March 5, 2007 Author Share Posted March 5, 2007 Re: Are We All SKCs? The reason for that KR, is my poverty of knowledge about South Indian culture rather than a lack of stellar contribution of South Indians to India's development as a nation. The fault is entirely mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kumble_rocks Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 Re: Are We All SKCs? The reason for that KR, is my poverty of knowledge about South Indian culture rather than a lack of stellar contribution of South Indians to India's development as a nation. The fault is entirely mine. My apologizes for bringing that up. Cheers mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CC1981 Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 Re: Are We All SKCs? how many Indian fans place Indian Domestic Cricket and place it above County Cricket ? Pretty close to negligible That is because county cricket was at one time just a wee bit short of Test cricket in terms of quality and still today, it is the second best domestic league after Australia's. Our own players drool over the oportunity to play in county cricket and look at Indian Cricket with Disdain Quite justified IMO. Indian domestic cricket = not even half the quality of County cricket. But the sad thing is our guys still place more importance on doing well in England /Aus .... sure performing away is important but not at the cost of our own cricket at home ! It would be true if India were decent away from home historically like AUS/RSA/PAK/WI/ENG. For a team like India or SL, overseas victories are far far more valuable than home victories. Thats how much pride they take in their own ... try suggesting that concept to a desi ... and you will called a madman. Which is probably why India has one of the most pleasant images overseas and Yanks are hated overseas mostly for their ignorant viewpoints. Blind imitation of America would be far more SKC than what is today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kumble_rocks Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 Re: Are We All SKCs? Here we go again. I hope the southies who think they are 'ignored/malaigned' by the Northies realize that the most ignored and excluded area of India is the 7 sister states. Jesus CC . I was politely pointing out the slip to Dhondy. Why are you getting upset ? :shrug: And if you feel that most ignored area of India is the 7 sister states, then please mention it and I as an Indian, will try to be sensitive to your concerns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
head coach Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 Re: Are We All SKCs? Accoding to Narayanamoorthy, few of the reasons people turn to western values(SKC) is this: * Respect for the public good - In the West, there is respect for the public good. For instance, parks free of litter, clean streets, public toilets free of graffiti - all these are instances of care for the public good. On the contrary, in India, we keep our houses clean and water our gardens everyday but, when we go to a park, we do not think twice before littering the place. * Attitude to corruption - This is because of the individual's responsible behaviour towards the community as a whole. On the contrary, in India, corruption, tax evasion, cheating and bribery have eaten into our vitals. For instance, contractors bribe officials, and construct low-quality roads and bridges. Corruption, as we see in India, is another example of putting the interest of oneself, and at best that of one's family, above that of the society. Society is relatively corruption free in the West. It is very difficult to bribe a police officer into avoiding a speeding ticket. The result is that society loses in the form of substandard defence equipment and infrastructure, and low-quality recruitment, just to name a few impediments. Unfortunately, this behaviour is condoned by almost everyone. * Public apathy - Apathy in solving community matters has held us back from making progress, which is otherwise within our reach. We see serious problems around us but do not try to solve them. We behave as if the problems do not exist or are somebody else's. On the other hand, in the West, people solve societal problems proactively. Now people tell me how we can replicate this SKC or chamatkar in India? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 Re: Are We All SKCs? Lurker heres the lowdown on SKC w.r.t Cricket .... how many Indian fans place Indian Domestic Cricket and place it above County Cricket ? Pretty close to negligible ... Our own players drool over the oportunity to play in county cricket and look at Indian Cricket with Disdain ... heck they even criticize everything about Indian Test Cricket live on TV .... "Ohhh these Indian flat pitches yada yada yada ... " .. It was worse on cricket forums ... I got so fed up with that bakwaas that I came up with that batting is easy site .... needless to say now nobody bothers arguing with me on that topic ... But the sad thing is our guys still place more importance on doing well in England /Aus .... sure performing away is important but not at the cost of our own cricket at home ! So when someone says ohhh whats the big deal in scoring a 100 in India ... I take them to task bigtime. Two observations here: 1) Any team has to perform in every condition to be called as a great team. Indian team would have been called a great team had we performed both in India and abroad. As it so happens that we rarely performed abroad and hence Indian team's criticism. Of course it cuts both ways and when opposition has not been able to play to their game in India they should also be chastised. Here is a question to you now: Would you much rather pick a bowler who takes 25 wickets in 5 tests and a batsman who scores 500 runs in 5 tests in Australia? Or would you much rather pick a batsman/bowler who does the same at home? 2) Indian domestic cricket structure is hardly anything to be compared against English county cricket. Even today, when Indian domestic structure is arguably at its best, we are not as good as English cricket structure. Every English county team has a nice ground(do you think every Ranji team has one?), decent coach and support staff, good stadium and facilities for spectators etc etc. I am sure you realize between 1960 to mid 80's almost every great player was playing in English county cricket. On the other hand Indian domestic cricket not only did not have non-Indian players, often it did not have even Indian players! Thats my take though. What do you opine on Indian domestic cricket vis a vis English county? xxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CC1981 Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 Re: Are We All SKCs? That is more due to propaganda than fact .... Indian domestic cricket - atleast up until the 80s was just as competitive as any out there in the world absolute undadulterated BS. County cricket was peerless before mid 90s. in the 60s,70s,80s and early 90s, great players from the world over were playing county cricket while nobody but indians played indian domestic cricket. There is absolutely no question that county cricket in the period i specified was a whole light year ahead of Indian domestic cricket. In the 60s,70s and 80s, the stronger county teams fielded more than HALF their side with international players. And i am not talking about cr@p international players like Agarkar...but the likes of Sobers, Holding, Procter, etc etc. we are convinced beyond reason that our domestic quality is substandard. Given how many Indian batsmen average 50+ and bowlers who take 5 wickets/match and mid 20s average in domestic cricket and promptly fail in international level, its very good reason to assume why domestic qualify of India is substandard. Ermm the ugly ozzies and the brits have utterly condescending attitude towards cricket in India and act like utter yobs Aussies, English and practically the whole world makes for infinitely better tourist groups than Yanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoda Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 Re: Are We All SKCs? So, if you think English County Cricket has higher standards than Indian domestic, you suffer from SKC. If you have met a few Yanks who are obnoxious, then the entire American population makes for a poor tourist group. :wtg: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CC1981 Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 Re: Are We All SKCs? If you have met a few Yanks who are obnoxious, then the entire American population makes for a poor tourist group. Not every single one of them - but Yanks have far more yobs for tourists than anyone else. Thats the commonly held view of most people in the hospitality industry worldwide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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