CC1981 Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 Re: Are We All SKCs? Here is a question to you now: Would you much rather pick a bowler who takes 25 wickets in 5 tests and a batsman who scores 500 runs in 5 tests in Australia? Or would you much rather pick a batsman/bowler who does the same at home? If the underlying criteria is cricketing skill ... then a batsman scoring 500 runs in 5 tests in India would be my pick .... very very few have acheived this feat ... ONLY VVS and Sehwag from India have gone past the 500 mark (in just 3 Tests each) ... whereas you will find a gazillion people who have done that in Eng/Aus .... Probably something to do with the fact that Eng/AUS play way more 5-test series and have so until recently than India. Much harder to score 500 in a series if the series is 3 tests with one high scoring flat pitch draw that has 1 innings/side batting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apocalypse Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 Re: Are We All SKCs? Accoding to Narayanamoorthy, few of the reasons people turn to western values(SKC) is this: * Respect for the public good - In the West, there is respect for the public good. For instance, parks free of litter, clean streets, public toilets free of graffiti - all these are instances of care for the public good. On the contrary, in India, we keep our houses clean and water our gardens everyday but, when we go to a park, we do not think twice before littering the place. Here also people fear fines thats why they dont litter. Enforce strict fines in India and you will see the result. * Attitude to corruption - This is because of the individual's responsible behaviour towards the community as a whole. On the contrary, in India, corruption, tax evasion, cheating and bribery have eaten into our vitals. For instance, contractors bribe officials, and construct low-quality roads and bridges. Corruption, as we see in India, is another example of putting the interest of oneself, and at best that of one's family, above that of the society. Society is relatively corruption free in the West. It is very difficult to bribe a police officer into avoiding a speeding ticket. The result is that society loses in the form of substandard defence equipment and infrastructure, and low-quality recruitment, just to name a few impediments. Unfortunately, this behaviour is condoned by almost everyone. Provide good compensation to the cops and they will avoid taking fines. In short if we cry that corruption is here and there, thats because we have only elected those people. How many times do you go and vote even if you are in India? * Public apathy - Apathy in solving community matters has held us back from making progress, which is otherwise within our reach. We see serious problems around us but do not try to solve them. We behave as if the problems do not exist or are somebody else's. On the other hand, in the West, people solve societal problems proactively. Now people tell me how we can replicate this SKC or chamatkar in India? Do you think people in US bother? Atleast in India you know who is your next door neighbor. Unlike here where you might need to take an appointment to meet your neighbor. I dont give a damn about whether its NarayanMurthi or someone else who says these things. Its very easy to sit and say rather rather than do something about it. Stop pointing fingers on your country when you cant do anything about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 Re: Are We All SKCs? If the underlying criteria is cricketing skill ... then a batsman scoring 500 runs in 5 tests in India would be my pick .... very very few have acheived this feat ... ONLY VVS and Sehwag from India have gone past the 500 mark (in just 3 Tests each) ... whereas you will find a gazillion people who have done that in Eng/Aus .... The gazillion people could be explained by the number of tests played. Indian batsman, when playing in 5 test plus, have also scored 500 plus runs. Notable being Gavaskar with 700 plus in West Indies twice(including his debut series where he needed only 4 tests to achieve that). Or Azhar who scored 450 plus in 3 tests(in his debut series again). My take is I would much rather pick a batsman who scores 500 runs in Australia than India. xx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CC1981 Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 Re: Are We All SKCs? huh ? Remmber these Yobs by any chance ? Tony Greig, Botham, Lillee, Thommo, Boon, Lehman, McGrath, Merv Hughes, Chappell etc etc .... these guys would make any Yank look like a saint .... Sorry no comparison. Disagree. If you get a chance to travel the world, you'd realize it pretty quick how disliked American tourists the world over are. Do you know that West Indian players were invited to Play in Indian domestic matches back in the 80s ? So what ? Even Bermuda can invite Lara to come play for them. Doesnt mean Lara will. English County league had already established itself the best in the world before it started drawing foreign stars. Let Indian domestic league get even half as good as the Aussie one and then we'll attract foreign stars too. and if you want quality ... then look no further than the Mumbai Kanga league .... making a 50 there is like scoring a double hundred at Lords ... Ask Manjrekar and Gavaskar ... And the Kanga league isnt First class cricket. We are comparing first class cirkcet and there is no doubt in any objective person's mind that even today Indian domestic cricket is far worse than county cricket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 Re: Are We All SKCs? Do you know that West Indian players were invited to Play in Indian domestic matches back in the 80s ? Like I said had we blown our own trumpet loud and obscenely enough as County cricket does we would have a successfull and economically viable domestic setup ...... and if you want quality ... then look no further than the Mumbai Kanga league .... making a 50 there is like scoring a double hundred at Lords ... Ask Manjrekar and Gavaskar ... I beleive you are talking about Roy Gilchrist here. Yes he did play in Indian circuit(Hyderabad if I am not mistaken) just as Asif Iqbal and Dennis Compton did at various times. But such instances were few and far in between and to use that as an indicator that Indian domestic circuit have players from outside our shores in wrong. As for Mumbai Kanga league that is indeed a tough outing and has thrown some wonderful cricketers for India. It was a much celebrated even where once Sunny Gavaskar shipped out to play the very next morning after he had come from a tour. Sachin used to play there often. Today it is dwindling and is no more the force it used to be(neither is Mumbai for that matter). xx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoda Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 Re: Are We All SKCs? I find this obsession about overseas wins and overseas scoring strange (no NOT SKC). A run is a run and a win is a win no matter where it happens. Yes, it helps to win away from home so that your overall record doesn't suck. But to say that a win at adelaide is better than a win at chennai is bogus at best, IMO. What next? A loss at adelaide by 1 wicket is better than a win in chennai by 1 wicket? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CC1981 Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 Re: Are We All SKCs? I find this obsession about overseas wins and overseas scoring strange (no NOT SKC). Its not strange- India has rarely won overseas and the total # of indian overseas series victories can be counted on one hand. Compared to zillions of series won at home, it is natural that we'd value an overseas victory far more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dhondy Posted March 5, 2007 Author Share Posted March 5, 2007 Re: Are We All SKCs? Thank you for your cogent & thoughtful respone, Head Coach. You turned the argument on its head and showed why being a SKC is not necessarily such a bad thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predator_05 Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 Re: Are We All SKCs? Look at americans how they turned a crappy game like baseball into such a successfull sport .... without any recognition from outside world .... their motto - who cares about the rest of the world ... for us America = World. Eh ? Baseball (go Mets!) is absolutely huge certain parts of Latin America and Asia ! It's widely regarded as the most popular sport in Mexico, Venezuela, Cuba, the Dominican Republic and there are a substantial number of players from these countries in the MLB. Many are highly-paid superstars as well, ie; Sosa, Abreu, Pujols, etc. Baseball enjoys immense viewership in Japan (where it's the largest participation sport - yes, bigger than football) and South Korea. So your assumption that baseball is insular as a sport, is well wide of the mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 Re: Are We All SKCs? I find this obsession about overseas wins and overseas scoring strange (no NOT SKC). A run is a run and a win is a win no matter where it happens. Yes, it helps to win away from home so that your overall record doesn't suck. But to say that a win at adelaide is better than a win at chennai is bogus at best, IMO. What next? A loss at adelaide by 1 wicket is better than a win in chennai by 1 wicket? Yoda. That argument would hold sway if India had a balanced record. See its one thing to say 60% of Indian win have come at home, 40% abroad. It is completely different thing to say 90% of Indian win have come at home and 10% abroad. That historical imbalance renders Indian players record futile. I mean if a run is a run and a wicket is a wicket then Azhar should have scored at 55 abroad as well and not in high 30's is it not? This is what seperates great players from mere good ones. You check the records of Sunny, Sachin, Dravid and those of Vengsarkar, Azhar etc and you would know the difference. xxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoda Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 Re: Are We All SKCs? I find this obsession about overseas wins and overseas scoring strange (no NOT SKC). Its not strange- India has rarely won overseas and the total # of indian overseas series victories can be counted on one hand. Compared to zillions of series won at home, it is natural that we'd value an overseas victory far more. It is saying "My house has a great backyard, but a itsy-bitsy front yard. So, from now on, I will drool for a larger front yard and keep ignoring my great backyard". Take the NBA for example. They play half the games at home and the other half away. Obviously teams typically win a lot more games at home than away. I never seen anyone going gaga over a win against a team away as opposed to beating the same team at home. Just the quality of the opposition should matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kabira Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 Re: Are We All SKCs? what Boss is trying to say is this.. "The winning abroad is great and memorable..but lets not undermine our wins at home". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CC1981 Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 Re: Are We All SKCs? Take the NBA for example. They play half the games at home and the other half away. Obviously teams typically win a lot more games at home than away. I never seen anyone going gaga over a win against a team away as opposed to beating the same team at home. Just the quality of the opposition should matter. Well there are rarely any good NBA teams who win like 10% of their matches away and 60% at home. The Flames are a very good example this season: stellar at home, poor outside of home and mediocre overall. Much better home record than several teams ahead of it in points but simply cant buy a win away from home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predator_05 Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 Re: Are We All SKCs? Well there are rarely any good NBA teams who win like 10% of their matches away and 60% at home. The Flames are a very good example this season: stellar at home' date=' poor outside of home and mediocre overall. Much better home record than several teams ahead of it in points but simply cant buy a win away from home.[/quote'] There is a team called "The Flames" in the NBA ? Sh*t, where have i been all these years ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CC1981 Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 Re: Are We All SKCs? err i should've mentioned its in NHL. I dont watch NBA anyways. gets borin after the first quarter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoda Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 Re: Are We All SKCs? Take the NBA for example. They play half the games at home and the other half away. Obviously teams typically win a lot more games at home than away. I never seen anyone going gaga over a win against a team away as opposed to beating the same team at home. Just the quality of the opposition should matter. Well there are rarely any good NBA teams who win like 10% of their matches away and 60% at home. The Flames are a very good example this season: stellar at home, poor outside of home and mediocre overall. Much better home record than several teams ahead of it in points but simply cant buy a win away from home. May be, but even if it were, no one would really care as long as they make the playoffs. A win is a win is a win. To keep giving more importance to something which has eluded you and keep minimizing things you have been good at, is a recipe for low self-esteem, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 Re: Are We All SKCs? Take the NBA for example. They play half the games at home and the other half away. Obviously teams typically win a lot more games at home than away. I never seen anyone going gaga over a win against a team away as opposed to beating the same team at home. Just the quality of the opposition should matter. Ironical that in a thread where we are supposedly dicussing if Indians look towards West for acceptance we use a Western example to prove our viewpoint.. "The winning abroad is great and memorable..but lets not undermine our wins at home". In the same vein should it also not happen that just as we celebrate our own cricketing heroes, we should not knock down those of others?? By the way I doubt any cricketing fans knocks down the success of Indian team. Which Indian fan would not put the 2001 win against Australia as one of the greatest ever?? At the same time as a cricket fan I am also willing to concede that there is a huge gap between our domestic and overseas performance and unless that gap is bridged I can not consider India as a great Indian team just out of sheer nationalistic aura. xxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CC1981 Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 Re: Are We All SKCs? To keep giving more importance to something which has eluded you and keep minimizing things you have been good at, is a recipe for low self-esteem, IMO. Or a recipe for success when you focus on your weakness and dont just keep relying/focussing on your strengths. :hic: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CC1981 Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 Re: Are We All SKCs? At the same time as a cricket fan I am also willing to concede that there is a huge gap between our domestic and overseas performance and unless that gap is bridged I can not consider India as a great Indian team just out of sheer nationalistic aura. hear hear ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoda Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 Re: Are We All SKCs? Take the NBA for example. They play half the games at home and the other half away. Obviously teams typically win a lot more games at home than away. I never seen anyone going gaga over a win against a team away as opposed to beating the same team at home. Just the quality of the opposition should matter. Ironical that in a thread where we are supposedly dicussing if Indians look towards West for acceptance we use a Western example to prove our viewpoint.. I didn't use the NBA as a western example. Just as something a good number of us can relate to having followed them closely for years. I can't really give another Indian sport for comparison having followed just Cricket from back home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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