yoda Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 Re: Are We All SKCs? To keep giving more importance to something which has eluded you and keep minimizing things you have been good at, is a recipe for low self-esteem, IMO. Or a recipe for success when you focus on your weakness and dont just keep relying/focussing on your strengths. :hic: You can focus on your weakness without minimizing your strengths. Just because we are good at something doesn't mean that something suddenly means nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 Re: Are We All SKCs? And thats the whole point about SKC .... we would much rather drool and support a foreign setup than our own ... even if it were actually better ... heck the very fact that Iam sitting here and trying to convince people that our own cricket is as good as anybody elses is a live proof of deep rooted SKCness in our system. That goes back to my assertion that Indian do not know much about their history. I personally do not wish to sit and educate Indians about that(history), if you wish to do so good luck with that. That aside Kanga league is a part of the argument not an argument in itself. You can not compare Kanga League with English cricket really. Kanga league has some tough games but its not a National level tourney. The only noted players that play in it are Mumbaites(generally). You can not simply take up the competitive cricket in Kanga League and suggest hence Indian domestic cricket is as good as English. xxxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
head coach Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 Re: Are We All SKCs? Its very easy to sit and say rather rather than do something about it. Stop pointing fingers on your country when you cant do anything about it. Apocalyse. who said you cannot do anything about it? It has to first flow into Indian mindset what is corruption and how better things are acheived by West following these rules. Naraynamoorthy, President Kalam and others are taking that first step on educating the masses on having a look at themselves and see how they could get the best out of West rather than just embracing the POP culture. BTW, the attempt is not at all to point finger rather to do an introspection. It is always not bad to follow West traditions you see! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CC1981 Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 Re: Are We All SKCs? Travel ? I facking live here amongst the hardcore Yanks .... as in 24x7 Yeah, living amongst Yanks 24/7 would give you a good idea on how well the yanks are liked around the world :wall: heck the very fact that Iam sitting here and trying to convince people that our own cricket is as good as anybody elses is a live proof of deep rooted SKCness in our system. It is a proof of your unqualified jingoism that you'd say Indian domestic cricket in the 70s,80s, etc. were as good as county cricket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apocalypse Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 Re: Are We All SKCs? Its very easy to sit and say rather rather than do something about it. Stop pointing fingers on your country when you cant do anything about it. Apocalyse. who said you cannot do anything about it? It has to first flow into Indian mindset what is corruption and how better things are acheived by West following these rules. Naraynamoorthy, President Kalam and others are taking that first step on educating the masses on having a look at themselves and see how they could get the best out of West rather than just embracing the POP culture. BTW, the attempt is not at all to point finger rather to do an introspection. It is always not bad to follow West traditions you see! do you think after such a long time people dont know what a corruption is? My idea is that not every good person can make a good worker to the country in politics and Kalam is the example of that. Its not about following the West. Its about why people have doubt in their mind that country cant do good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 Re: Are We All SKCs? Any particular reason for that ? More than 1 reason really: 1) Australia has typically always been one of the top teams in the world. It is much more difficult to score 500 in a series against a bowling attack of say Lillee-Thommo-Walker-Poscoe, Mcgrath-Lee-Warne than say Kapil-Sandhu-Doshi or Agarkar-Zaheer-Kumble. There is also the small matter of how an Aussie would typically hold even a half-chance while Indians typically are not as efficient. So guess what would be more difficult? Playing against a potent attack with world class fielding and scoring 500 runs or playing against an attack that is not so potent and is not as threatening on field. I pick the former. 2) An Australian series will typically involve all kinds of ground. Fast pitches at WACA(though the zip is slowly fizzling out now), spin at Sydney, mix of both at Adelaide, Brisbane and Melbourne. A batsman who has a successful series would need to be adept for all kind of pitches. On the other hand an Indian series would generally involves games at Calcutta, Chennai, Bombay and possibly Delhi. Other than Calcutta and Mohali of late none of the pitches are of any help to fast bowlers and often starts spinning from day 1. Now I personally do not mind India playing to its strength(spin) but it should not be to the extent what it is(spinning from day 1). Just an addendum here, when I mean 500 in 5 test series I do not mean a series with scores of 23,15,17,267,56,1,4,5,6 and so on. I am more talking along 56,3,67,114,33,167,45,48,133 and the like. xxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 Re: Are We All SKCs? do you think after such a long time people dont know what a corruption is? People do know what corruption is but fail to realize how often they themselves support it. Growing up I have seen too many educated people talking about a Government employee and his "uppar ki kamai". Heck that was often the important discussion during fixing marriages. Larkya kya karta hai? XYZ mein officer hai. Accha tankhwah kitni hai? 4000 salary and 4000 ke aas paas uppar se aa jaata hai. :mad: :mad: :mad: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kabira Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 Re: Are We All SKCs? >Australia has typically always been one of the top teams in the world. It is much more difficult to score 500 in a series against a bowling attack of say Lillee-Thommo-Walker-Poscoe Totally agree...in the same light..can we give credit to a batsman who scores against same attack but this time at home? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 Re: Are We All SKCs? >Australia has typically always been one of the top teams in the world. It is much more difficult to score 500 in a series against a bowling attack of say Lillee-Thommo-Walker-Poscoe Totally agree...in the same light..can we give credit to a batsman who scores against same attack but this time at home? Indeed he should. But here is the catch. If such a player keeps doing such heroics only in India, should be get the credit? I do not think so. xxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CC1981 Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 Re: Are We All SKCs? Totally agree...in the same light..can we give credit to a batsman who scores against same attack but this time at home? No- as a rule of thumb, away performance for any player is harder than home performance because of the psychological pressure at playing in the opposition's den, less familiarity with the condition than the opposition etc etc. Exceptions to this rule exists but far and few in between. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
head coach Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 Re: Are We All SKCs? Its about why people have doubt in their mind that country cant do good Well the doubt is just because of lack of confidence in the system in place. Speaking of SKC, sadly younger generation take the negatives out of the western culture rather than the positives and we label the darkside in our minds. One of the reasons India is booming nowadays is because of a global economy. While driving here, I hear ads put out by McGraw Hill companies about how Indian economy is growing and how in turn it will help other economies to grow as well. The demographic boundaries are fast disappearing and all that matters is individual ability to prosper in your field. That's exactly why Infosys, Wipro, Tata and other companies are demonstrating their excellence worldwide. People have to leave aside their doubt and start competing against world leaders and whatever is holding them behind as a barrier they have to identify it whether it be govt inaction or social injustice... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kabira Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 Re: Are We All SKCs? >If such a player keeps doing such heroics only in India, should be get the credit? may I ask why not?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 Re: Are We All SKCs? By the way I had written this long time back(was posted on old board for a while). Not sure if some of you read it before. Does India really idolize its cricketing heroes? India idolizes its cricketers; cricket is like a religion in India and its best players are worshipped. Would you say that's true? Most fans would say yes. Keep in mind that when I say Indian I mean Indian subcontinent, as there is not much to choose between India and Pakistan (perhaps even Sri Lanka). But the question is: what is meant when we say that we idolize our team or players? Recently I happened to come across an article on Marshall (Macko the Magnificent). As is my habit, I checked the article and clicked all relevant links within it. What I found grew more fascinating with every link. Please allow me to share it with you. India beat the Windies in the 1983 World Cup. It was a classic case of David vs Goliath. Or was it? India had beaten Windies at Berbice just a few months back, when they had toured Windies. A certain Kapil Dev had scored 72 off 38 deliveries, and took 2 wickets for 33. Kapil Dev's strike rate in that match, like most matches he played in, was way ahead of its time, but that's another story (as is the fact that many thought Kapil wasn't a match winner.) In any case, India beat Windies in Windies, something that had not happened in a long time. In the World Cup, India met the Windies twice before the finals: one game was won by India, the other by the Windies. And, as we all know, India beat the mighty Windies in the finals again. That makes it 3 wins out of 5 matches. Not bad, eh? I have no hesitation in accepting that Windies were odds-on favorites in the finals, but to paint India as a minnow going into the finals was downright ridiculous. That World Cup win brings me to my point. Post-1983, a war was declared by the Windies. Egos had been hurt. The unbeatable Windies had been rendered second-best. They wanted to beat India at any cost, and beat them they did. Team India came second in the subsequent series, but let's take a look at individual performances. The leading marauder from Windies was Marshall. He bowled 221 overs in 11 innings and took 33 wickets. That was Marshall at his fiery best. He even knocked the bat out of Sunny Gavaskar's hands, supposedly the worst humilation of Sunny's career. Sunny responded with 505 runs at 50.50 with 2 centuries. This against arguably one of the best attacks of all time comprising Marshall, Holding, Roberts, Daniel, Davis. But guess what? It didn't count for much by the experts, since it was played at HOME. Come again? Success against that kind of pace attack, with two of the all-time great bowlers at their peak (Holding took 30 wickets), with the backdrop of the history is rendered useless. Wow! Well, what about Colonel Vengsarkar? He was Enemy Number 1 for Marshall, wasn't he? I remember how Marshall wrote in his book 'Macko' that he wanted to bowl each time Vengsarkar came to bat. The wicket that gave him the greatest satisfaction in his entire career was when he dismissed Vengsarkar in his 90's in Windies. I doubt any batsman would want to be the number 1 enemy of possibly the best fast bowler of all time. How did Vengsarkar fare in that series? A small matter of 425 runs in 8 innings at 53. I am still to find an article as to how Colonel took on the mighty Windies, although one does get to read many an account of Vengsarkar's inability to play fast bowling. But then the game was played in India, which helps batsmen and makes the bowlers toil hard, hence the effort of Sunny and Dilip didn't count for much. It also shows why Marshall and Holding were all-time greats and amongst the best match winners of all time. Remember Marshall's stats for the series? He bowled 221 overs in 11 innings and took 33 wickets. Awesome! But wait a minute; there was another bowler who bowled 203 overs in 10 innings and ended with 29 wickets at 18.51 (best average from either side). That effort would surely be better than Holdings and as good as Marshall if not better, wouldn't it? The bowler? A certain Kapil Dev. That was Kapil at his peak, the period between 1982 to 1987 before he was relegated to a stock bowler. But hey, how many times have I heard that Kapil was one of the best match-winning bowlers? Marshall had Holding as his partner who took 30 wickets in the same series, while Kapil had Roger Binny who took 7. In fact, the second highest number of wickets for the Indians after Kapil was Ravi Shastri (12 wickets at 47). Does India idolize its cricketers? Yes. Do we give them the respect they deserve? No. We tend to judge our cricket players by what others (read England, Australia, etc.) want us to judge them. To me an Indian player is just as great whether he performs well in India or abroad. But is that true of most Indian fans? I don't think so. Just ask a certain Anil Kumble. xxxx MODS if you want you may move it as an article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kabira Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 Re: Are We All SKCs? I dont know believe county cricket is any better than our domestic cricket...take an example of Dinesh Mongia...dude was hero there.. If English county was any good..England would have ruled world cricket..but heck, in mid to late 90s they had miserable team... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aditi Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 Re: Are We All SKCs? So if we have white friends are we "SKC"?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kabira Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 Re: Are We All SKCs? >So if we have white friends are we "SKC"?? no..thats not the criteria... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoda Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 Re: Are We All SKCs? If you use Fair and Lovely are you "SKC"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
head coach Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 Re: Are We All SKCs? I dont know believe county cricket is any better than our domestic cricket...take an example of Dinesh Mongia...dude was hero there.. If English county was any good..England would have ruled world cricket..but heck, in mid to late 90s they had miserable team... Kabira, We have to take into consideration the condition that you play. Country Cricket and grounds are ideal for Cricket. All players who shine in County may not shine when it comes to International level, playing in diff conditions. County Cricket is better than domestic cricket because of the variety of bowlers you face from all over the world and also for the money involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CC1981 Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 Re: Are We All SKCs? If English county was any good..England would have ruled world cricket..but heck, in mid to late 90s they had miserable team... Yeah, their county quality declined after the early 90s. But before that, county cricket was easily far far better than indian FC cricket. Even today it is better simply because its at a better level and involves far more skilled foreigners than domestic cricket in india. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predator_05 Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 Re: Are We All SKCs? take the Ranji trophy too ... only VVS and SMG have scored triple hundreds IIRC ... : Dinesh Mongia, Wasim Jaffer, Arjan Kripal Singh (who ?) and Devang Gandhi (among others) have scored triple hundreds too !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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