kumble_rocks Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 Re: Murthy apologises for anthem remark And whats wrong with saying Dravida ? He doesnt even specifically mention the seven sister states. Why the heck did he mention Bengal ? Like I said, it sounds more like North Indian National Anthem because he uses words like Punjab , Gujarat , Ganga , Jamuna etc. Dravida in the national Anthem represents Dravidian Language. The principal dravidian languages has got four branches and are as follows: Northwest: Brahui, spoken in Baluchistan, Northeast: Kurukh and Malto in Bengal, Central: Telugu, Kui and Kolami-Parji, South: Tamil, Kannada, Tulu, Malayalam, Bagada, Toda, Kota and Kodagu. Nearly one quarter of India's population speaks Dravidian. Therefore South India is represented well in National Anthem by specifying Dravida. Yeah right ! :hic: :hic: Why the heck did he have to mention Punjab, Gujarat, Bengal ,Maharashtra explicitly . Makes no sense at all. "Dravida" means zilch to me. Either scrap this selective mention of State or mention all the states in the anthem. It is ridiculous to mention only North Indian states in the National Anthem and totally brush of entire South India with one word "Dravida". Also, name one geographical terrain in south india which is present in the national anthem. He has the gall to talk about Ganga , Jamuna etc . Why the heck can't he talk about Cauvery ( ganges of the south) . KR, There could be many reasons that he skipped: To make it short, not resounding well as others, Dravida covers it all, not many big rivers as the ones mentioned many. I think it's too narrow minded approach to see it the other way. Man, You got to be the CM of Tamilnadu, they would love you to separate Tamil speaking people into one and solve the SL-LTTE issue etc. Never seen this much of a regional outlook. It's not regional outlook mate. You always strive for Political correctness in your posts and fail to do so in this particular case. Come on man , you don't find anything wrong with selective mention of States ?. Also, why doesn't he use "Uttara" to encompass entire north india. As a kannadiga , I don't find this national anthem particularly appealing. I would rather have a national anthem devoid of any mention of states just like in USA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 Re: Murthy apologises for anthem remark Thanks for the honest reply HC. I wonder where the replies of the guys who were frothing and fuming about not standing when the national anthem plays on a Winamp are' date=' though? [b']Come on, you can lie and say that you stood up and started singing the national anthem at the top of your voices in your offices alongside the girl who was singing it!! What an absolute ridiculous post!! So if someone suggests he/she doesnt stand up then he is honest but when someone else makes a clear categorical statement that he does then he is dishonest!!! Basically the problem is this, people cut corners in life and just because they do they assume everyone else does so..worse they assume it is perfectly correct!! Fine by me so long as that yardstick is not pointed towards the likes of us who still have reverence for sanctity for National Anthem. I shall ask you the same question as I asked CC Shwetabh. Which friends of yours has National Anthem on Winamp or iPod?? Say you have 100 friends are you telling me even 10 of them, if that, have it on Winamp?? If not what kind of ridiculous example is that to suggest your point. To show your lack of respect towards National Anthem you are more than willing to create examples that do not exist? So how many friends have it on Winamp my dear? xxxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Outsider Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 Re: Murthy apologises for anthem remark None of my friends have the national anthem on Winamp as far as I know. I have it on my ITunes though I dont play it in the middle of a party. But I dont see how any of this is relevant. I asked the MB about how many stood up and started singing with the girl on youtube and none has so far said they did despite some of them giving long lectures about how they would put down their drink and stand up and start singing the anthem in a party if it were to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 Re: Murthy apologises for anthem remark It's not regional outlook mate. You always strive for Political correctness in your posts and fail to do so in this particular case. Come on man , you don't find anything wrong with selective mention of States ?. Also, why doesn't he use "Uttara" to encompass entire north india. As a kannadiga , I don't find this national anthem particularly appealing. I would rather have a national anthem devoid of any mention of states just like in USA. I for one do not find anything wrong with that National Anthem....and look the National Anthem up you wouldnt find a mention of Bihar(I am a Bihari by the way). You can not, and should not, treat National Anthem as some sort of product that has a shelf-life. It is NOT a medicine that has an expiry date. You have to realize the context in which this song was written, when and where. Now if one suggests that this song was written largely to respect a British National(which it was), I find that a valid criticism every thing else is redudant as far as I am concerned. My logic is rather simple. We recieved Independence not by the people on this MB, we received it by our ancestors who faught and sacrificed themselves for us. And if they rallied behind a Vande Matram or a Jana Gana Mana or a Saare Jehan se Accha why should I find fault with it? There is also that little question of if the National Anthem is "updated" what do you update it in? Which language? Call me cynical but are people(specially from Southern States) going to be all fine and dandy if the National Anthem is a new Hindi song written by Gulzar? Or will North Indians sing it if its a Kannada song? The only choice can be Sanskrit and even then there would be a lot of "opposition" to it as its a "dead" language as per many Indians today. So if there was a National Anthem it is almost shocking to even comprehend that it may very well be in English!! After all that seems to be the language everyone seems to be most comfortable with these days. Just check out how Southern India dislikes Hindi and wants English as second language. Just check out how North Indians would go ignorant all their lives as far as Dravidian languages are concerned. Of course we all know English! Indian National Anthem in English..give it a serious thought. xxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 Re: Murthy apologises for anthem remark None of my friends have the national anthem on Winamp as far as I know. I have it on my ITunes though I dont play it in the middle of a party. Okay then that example is redudant, from you or CC or anyone else's perspective. Please dont repeat it in any of your other posts. But I dont see how any of this is relevant. I asked the MB about how many stood up and started singing with the girl on youtube and none has so far said they did despite some of them giving long lectures about how they would put down their drink and stand up and start singing the anthem in a party if it were to play. Dont know what Youtube video you are on about. Dont drink and yes I stand up every single time and sing it too. xxxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Outsider Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 Re: Murthy apologises for anthem remark Dont know what Youtube video you are on about. Dont drink and yes I stand up every single time and sing it too. CC posted it in one of the threads on GD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
head coach Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 Re: Murthy apologises for anthem remark Now if one suggests that this song was written largely to respect a British National(which it was)' date=' I find that a valid criticism every thing else is redudant as far as I am concerned. [/quote'] Lurker, It is utter nonsense that this was wrritten to praise a British King. I'm amused that it came from you. Read this: In a letter to Pulin Behari Sen, Tagore himself wrote: "A certain high official in His Majesty's service, who was also my friend, had requested that I write a song of felicitation towards the Emperor. The request simply amazed me. It caused a great stir in my heart. In response to that great mental turmoil, I pronounced the victory in Jana Gana Mana of that Bhagya Vidhata [ed. God of Destiny] of India who has from age after age held steadfast the reins of India's chariot through rise and fall, through the straight path and the curved. That Lord of Destiny, that Reader of the Collective Mind of India, that Perennial Guide, could never be George V, George VI, or any other George. Even my official friend understood this about the song. After all, even if his admiration for the crown was excessive, he was not lacking in simple common sense." I hope the guys in this MB also do not lack common sense as some Hinduthwadis who want to install Vandemathram as National Anthem instead of Jana Gana Mana.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Outsider Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 Re: Murthy apologises for anthem remark I hope the guys in this MB also do not lack common sense as some Hinduthwadis who want to install Vandemathram as National Anthem instead of Jana Gana Mana.... You have high hopes, I must say. :hic: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 Re: Murthy apologises for anthem remark Two things here HC. In a letter to Pulin Behari Sen, Tagore himself wrote: "A certain high official in His Majesty's service, who was also my friend, had requested that I write a song of felicitation towards the Emperor. The request simply amazed me. It caused a great stir in my heart. In response to that great mental turmoil, I pronounced the victory in Jana Gana Mana of that Bhagya Vidhata [ed. God of Destiny] of India who has from age after age held steadfast the reins of India's chariot through rise and fall, through the straight path and the curved. That Lord of Destiny, that Reader of the Collective Mind of India, that Perennial Guide, could never be George V, George VI, or any other George. Even my official friend understood this about the song. After all, even if his admiration for the crown was excessive, he was not lacking in simple common sense." Even by your own admission Jana Gana Mana was written by Tagore at a "request" for felicitation by a British National. In other words the origin of National Anthem lies in felicitation of British National(and thats by your link). Which is why I mentioned this as a valid criticism. I hope the guys in this MB also do not lack common sense as some Hinduthwadis who want to install Vandemathram as National Anthem instead of Jana Gana Mana.... Not sure where that came from. To merely chant Vande Matram in India seems to be a sin these days, forget putting it as National Anthem. This is not a matter of Hindutvawaadis as you would beleive but even for common diaspora. Here is a question for you. Not sure how much of a music fan are you, specially Hindi music. Can you remind me a few of popular Hindi song in past 25 years that had the wordings Vande Matram? If you can then let me know cos I can sit here and give you a dozen of songs before that, including many popular ones that were written 30-40 years back and would be outright banned in India today. I am no big fan of Hindutvawaadis but make no mistake in bending over backwards that Indians do when it comes to Vande Matram. So give me some recent song names that has the words Vande Matram please? xxxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
head coach Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 Re: Murthy apologises for anthem remark Even by your own admission Jana Gana Mana was written by Tagore at a "request" for felicitation by a British National. In other words the origin of National Anthem lies in felicitation of British National(and thats by your link). Which is why I mentioned this as a valid criticism. Lurker, Tagore was replying to the reports that said the words in the song actually praises the King instead of God. And you wont believe some of the people still make noise about this even after Tagore categorically denied it. How stupid can people be? I am no big fan of Hindutvawaadis but make no mistake in bending over backwards that Indians do when it comes to Vande Matram. I like the song Vandematharam and I'm not against chanting it in public. But the way Hinduthva folks brand it their own is ridiculous. I'm ashamed to see these cries from educated folks who in turn fund these terrorists organizations to go on with their killing. You only hear about the terrorism in the muslim world but hindu extremism is also dangerous by all means and hangs as sword to the largest democracy. Bytheby I never meant you were one among them. Pardon me if you felt that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 Re: Murthy apologises for anthem remark Lurker, Tagore was replying to the reports that said the words in the song actually praises the King instead of God. And you wont believe some of the people still make noise about this even after Tagore categorically denied it. How stupid can people be? I wont call people stupid HC. I would call people ignorant. The point is Indians, in general, are quite ignorant of their history. You would be surprised as to how few of us know of the origins of National Anthem. My grip, only one as I stated in my first post, is that our National Anthem was not penned down at the behest of Indian Constituent Assembly, it was written in a situation which was not, for me, the ideal. I like the song Vandematharam and I'm not against chanting it in public. But the way Hinduthva folks brand it their own is ridiculous. I'm ashamed to see these cries from educated folks who in turn fund these terrorists organizations to go on with their killing. You only hear about the terrorism in the muslim world but hindu extremism is also dangerous by all means and hangs as sword to the largest democracy. I would agree to that. No problem Hindu extremism is downright bad as any other form of religious extremism. However with Vande Matram the issue is how it has been relegated completely to the background and has only become a political vehicle. So much so that an ordinary Hindu chanting Vande Matram is considered a hardliner almost immediately. Again it is the ignorance of Indian public in general. I mentioned some Hindi movie songs. I am guessing you dont perhaps have as much knowledge of Hindi(no offense) and so let me help you out with a Hindi patriotic song that almost every North Indian would know here. It was written by Mahakavi Pradeep(sadly more Indians know today of Mandira Bedi than Pradeep). Anyway here is the song. Aao bacchon tumhein dikhayein Jhaanki Hindustan ki Is mitti se tilak karo yeh dharti hai balidaan ki Vande Matram...Vande Matram. (Let me take you kids to showcase India...rever this land as this is a land of sacrifice..Vande Matram..Vande Matram) Dekho mulk Marathon ka yeh yehan Shivaji dola tha Mughalon ki taqat ko jisne talwaaron pe tola tha har parvat pe aag lagi thi har pathar ek shola tha boli har har mahadev ki baccha baccha bola tha Veer Shivaji ne rekh li thi laaj hamari shaan ki Is mitti se tilak karo yeh dharti hai balidaan ki Vande Matram (See this country of Marathis..here is where Shivaji ruled The same Shivaji that got the measure of Mughals by his sword Every little hill was on fire...every stone was a fireball Every little kid chanted Har Har Mahadev The great Shivaji saved our prestige rever this land as this is a land of sacrifice ..Vande Matram..Vande Matram) Loose translation and all. But can you seriously tell me that a Hindi lyricist has the galls to write this today?? Shivaji saved "our" prestige?? Kid chanted "Har Har Mahadev"..this song would go straight to dump today! And this was written at a time(50-60) which by most accounts is most peaceful time in Indian history and not by hardliners today. Hence my assertion that when it comes to Vande Matram Indians have bent over backwards. Bytheby I never meant you were one among them. Pardon me if you felt that way. No worries. I was not intrigued by your Hindutva comment, I just wanted to show how Vande Matram has become a tool today - both for hardliners and for people on other side. xxxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
head coach Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 Re: Murthy apologises for anthem remark Thanks for the poem Lurker. Enjoyed it. I have not used Hindi since my college days so very weak on communicating but do know to write and read. Isn't Mahakavi a title given for one special writing? Did Kavi Pradeep earn one of those from his writings? Just asking out of curiosity. I'm not into Hindi poetry hence very limited knowledge. Sorry if you find the question silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gator Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 Re: Murthy apologises for anthem remark Thanks for the honest reply HC. I wonder where the replies of the guys who were frothing and fuming about not standing when the national anthem plays on a Winamp are, though? Come on, you can lie and say that you stood up and started singing the national anthem at the top of your voices in your offices alongside the girl who was singing it!! the problem with u, is u dont read the entire thread..... u jus post, cos u have this weird disease of wanting to be ridiculed..... i had clearly mentioned tht i would turn it off, if i am not in a position to stand up and give respect.... and i went home and opened the link and DID STAND UP..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Outsider Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 Re: Murthy apologises for anthem remark Thanks for the honest reply HC. I wonder where the replies of the guys who were frothing and fuming about not standing when the national anthem plays on a Winamp are' date=' though? Come on, you can lie and say that you stood up and started singing the national anthem at the top of your voices in your offices alongside the girl who was singing it!![/quote'] the problem with u, is u dont read the entire thread..... u jus post, cos u have this weird disease of wanting to be ridiculed..... i had clearly mentioned tht i would turn it off, if i am not in a position to stand up and give respect.... and i went home and opened the link and DID STAND UP..... Not in a position to stand up? What was the problem? Embarressed to be "Indian" in front of others(because standing up on the national anthem is supposedly your definition of being Indian)? Broken legs? Sore a$$? What was the problem in standing up? Same problem as taking up American citizenship and telling us Indians how to live our life? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 Re: Murthy apologises for anthem remark Isn't Mahakavi a title given for one special writing? Did Kavi Pradeep earn one of those from his writings? Just asking out of curiosity. I'm not into Hindi poetry hence very limited knowledge. Sorry if you find the question silly. HC. Mahakavi basically means Maha-Kavi. Maha as in Great(Gandhi is called Maha-Atma..Great soul) and Kavi as in poet. So basically a Great Poet. Pradeep is another of those forgotten Indians that people of our generation has no time for. He was the brain who had written the greatest of all patriotic songs, "Aie Mere watan ke logon". The song was sung by Lata and such was the passion generated that Pandit Nehru is stated to have cried listening to it. Pradeep was given the honour of Rashtra-Kavi or National Poet for this song if I am not mistaken. I wouldnt bore you with his Hindi songs exploits but here is a trivia information you may like. When the Hindi blockbuster SHOLAY was making money and practically blowing away every other Hindi movie of its time in its wake, there was a religious movie JAI SANTOSHI MAA that matched Sholay in terms of box-office collections for a long time. In large part due to the songs that were written by Pradeep. There were many occurences of songs being replayed in a show based on popular demand. xxxxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
head coach Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 Re: Murthy apologises for anthem remark I wouldnt bore you with his Hindi songs exploits but here is a trivia information you may like. When the Hindi blockbuster SHOLAY was making money and practically blowing away every other Hindi movie of its time in its wake, there was a religious movie JAI SANTOSHI MAA that matched Sholay in terms of box-office collections for a long time. In large part due to the songs that were written by Pradeep. There were many occurences of songs being replayed in a show based on popular demand. xxxxx Interesting. Thanks for the Info Lurker :wtg: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gator Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 Re: Murthy apologises for anthem remark Not in a position to stand up? What was the problem? Embarressed to be "Indian" in front of others(because standing up on the national anthem is supposedly your definition of being Indian)? Broken legs? Sore a$$? What was the problem in standing up? Same problem as taking up American citizenship and telling us Indians how to live our life? no, i am not allowed to play music or sing at work.... how come ur wild imagination never thought of this possible reason.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gator Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 Re: Murthy apologises for anthem remark because standing up on the national anthem is supposedly your definition of being Indian again... the famous "Mad Prof" twist.... i said, standing up is a sign of patriotism and not definition of being an indian.... u need some treatment... start with some fresh air.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CC1981 Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 Re: Murthy apologises for anthem remark I have already said why he used the term Dravida - its for the rhyme. I'd like the touchie southie here to substitute dravida with karnatak-kerala-andhra-tamil nadu and get the anthem to rhyme. And again - this is yet another example of a touchie southie getting worked up over nothing. There are several places Tagore didnt mention. Nothing more than nitpicking in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
head coach Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 Re: Murthy apologises for anthem remark I have already said why he used the term Dravida - its for the rhyme. I'd like the touchie southie here to substitute dravida with karnatak-kerala-andhra-tamil nadu and get the anthem to rhyme. And again - this is yet another example of a touchie southie getting worked up over nothing. There are several places Tagore didnt mention. Nothing more than nitpicking in my opinion. There is another completely false theory that I have heard from someone long time ago that Punjab, Sindh, Gujarat, Maratha etc. were mentioned because they were under British rule, and None of the princely states such as Kashmir, Rajasthan, Andhra, Mysore or Kerala since they were directly under Portuguese rule at that time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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