Jump to content

What is True Secularism?


Dhondy

Recommended Posts

If I were given a pound every time the term "Pseudo-secularism" was invoked on this forum, I'd be a wealthy man. Thanks to the perseverance of its users, I already have a feel of what they construe as pseudo-secularism. My question to the propagators of this term is, "What is true secularism?" It's a word that has been enshrined by our founding fathers in our constitution. It's a term we imbibed through Civics lessons throughout our journey through school and beyond. If I understand correctly, secularism means that the state does not advocate, or is not partial to any religion. By extension, it also means the freedom for people of all religions to practice their faith, and tolerance towards practitioners of other faiths. Yet, on every occasion that somebody has tried to defend Muslims or Islam on this forum, they have been labelled pseudo-secularists by certain people. It seems to me to be an unfair putdown, because how do you really prove your secularism? There are those among us who are completely areligious, and have very little time for the faith we were born into. There are those of us who believe in God, but don't believe in religion. Are we secular? Are we allowed to speak up against the stereotyping of a certain religion without being termed pseudo-secularists? If not, do you consider yourselves secular?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: What is True Secularism? I already know what a pseudo-sec is, Boss, thanks to your kind edification. I was hoping that you could define secularism for me, identify a few contemporary secular characters, and above all answer this question of two halves: "Do you believe in secularism? Do you consider yourself secular?"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: What is True Secularism? great topic -- i have stuff to say, but not time to write it up. but just as a start: there are two main types of secularism, as I see it -- 1. the french model -- the atheist government (eg. no externally identifiable religious marks etc. the nation-state is larger than all religions) 2. the indian/american model -- religion-blind govt, not neccessarily religion-less. ------------ dhonds, don't take the p-sec shyte to heart. the root cause of groupism is fear.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: What is True Secularism?

Are we secular? Are we allowed to speak up against the stereotyping of a certain religion without being termed pseudo-secularists? If not, do you consider yourselves secular?
Dhondy. By we do you mean people on this board or India in general? Either way I think yes we are Secular. Sure there are arguments against religion but there are rebuttal against these arguments too. And the rebuttals generally come from people who are of the same religion as those bashing religion. India in general is Secular in nature. One big reason for that is because Hinduism itself is very secular. Now by this I do not mean Secular in dictionary term but more in "Vashudev Kudumbakam"..Jeeyo aur Jeene do. Most of us have grown up in an India where every small city has a myriad of temples, mosques, gurudwara, churches etc. In my childhood memory of going to school(1.5 km ride one way) I can recall passing by atleast half a dozen mosques, 1 huge gurudwara, 2 churches(1 of them was also a graveyard) and dozens of temples. These religious structures are there not because Government of India wants them to but because people would like them to be there. In a nutshell yes we are Secular. And yes I consider myself Secular. xxxx
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: What is True Secularism? Excellent question Dhondy. Secularism Dictionary Definition:

    [*:8820f4a965]secular spirit or tendency, esp. a system of political or social philosophy that rejects all forms of religious faith and worship. [*:8820f4a965]the view that public education and other matters of civil policy should be conducted without the introduction of a religious element. [/list:8820f4a965] I guess the above 2 would correspond to the french, and Indian model as vroom pointed out. I believe, the pseudo-secularism part would arise when people only reject their religious faith, and not other beliefs, 'coz of political correctness.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: What is True Secularism? Thank you for your well thought out and sincere response, Lurker, Varun and others. I believe you. I believe you when you say that you, and our country in general, are secular. However, your secularism was never in doubt. You have proven that many-a-times through your responses on these pages. You represent the overwhelming majority of our countrymen, the tolerant, but sometimes perplexingly silent greater half that epitomize what our founding fathers envisioned all those years ago. You are the reason why I am proud to be an Indian. My question though was directed towards that vocal and increasingly vociferous section of this forum who are unfailingly strident in their denigration of anybody who dares advocate a moderate POV as "pseudo-secularists". My invitation to these people was to elaboarate their concept of secularism. Did they believe in it? Did they believe themselves to be secular? It wouldn't have escaped your attention that no answer was forthcoming.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: What is True Secularism? I am not here for an endless debate. I just want to know your POV, not about pseudo-secularism, but about secularism. Is that so difficult for you to understand? Why, oh, why do you always default to the same lines whenever anybody asks you to clariify your thinking? :wall: :wall: It's alright for you to call us pseudosecs, but when we turn around and ask you the meaning of secularism, we are hit and run merchants, are we?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: What is True Secularism? Dhonds, i am a true secularist.... yeah, u can call me a liar or not believe me... u asked me for my opinion, here it is... i cuss anyone who harms my country, be it paakis, bangles and whoever.... my best friend, during childhood was a muslim and had many muslim friends... they used to come to my place for festivals and have prashad and all tht, but i was not allowed to even enter their homes, except a couple of them.... not tht, it mattered to me.... tht shows, i am secular, as i am accepting of their belief that none-muslims should not enter their homes... i have never had problem with muslims practising their own religion, except when they try to flaunt it, like pakistani cricket team... what i do hate is, muslim seeking special provisions... but again, i have the same problem when lower caste wealthy hindus ask for reservations too... hence, this is not a religion related problem, this is more justice related.... what i hate are terrorists.... and i am not going to hide behind political correctness and deny that majority of the muslims are terrorists and there is something inherently wrong in their religion.... i have not hidden behind forums and said this... i have discussed this with my childhood friend too, and he tried to argue his views... we still are very good friends, but both know, what the other thinks.... what i dont like is, people preferring religion over nation... if muslims do it, with pakistan or the embarrassed kid who is a buddhist does it.... my reaction is the same.... people in this forum get easily confused that, having hard opinions and firm principles as hindutva and other BS... i supported the ayodhya act... not because, i am a hindu... because it is the just thing to do... if an indian had demolished the mosque in medina and constructed a temple, i would have silently supported if it was demolished, though i am a hindu, but with a tinge of sorrow.... again, some people may say, i am jus bluffing.... but u wanted my opinion, it is upto u to take it.... no, i dont believe in total historical retribution.... but i believe, every case has to be look at individually..... out of the countless temples, that were destroyed, some were extremely significant.... for example, if the ganesh temple on the corner of my street had been demolished 500 yrs bak and a mosque constructed... i prolly will not press for retribution..... but a unique place like ram janma bhoomi is destroyed, it is only fair tht it be restored... it is one of a kind.... i have hired people without discrimination on religion, caste or language.... our family doc was a muslim....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: What is True Secularism? I knew you wouldn't have the answers, Boss. You have no idea what secularism is. You repudiate everything it stands for, and refuse to acknowledge its existence. I don't know what's worse, really- such irremediable bias or blissful ignorance of it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: What is True Secularism?

when he has been caught pants down supporting Sharia and saying such things as "Pak will be justified to nuke India" and what have you ... Some definition of secularism you have ehhh ?
What a total and utter mispotrayal of my position. Caught pants down supporting things like Pak will be justified in nuking India ? Yeah - nevermind the context, right ? I said that under the premise that India stops the indus water flowing into Pakistan by damming the indus and its tributaries. Ie, create a humanitarian disaster in pakistan bigger than any nuke today can deliver in one single blow. And yes, in that context, to be fair, Pakistan is well within the rights to nuke India. Debate that if you will but to throw the context out of it is blatantly twisting my words.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...