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Subramaniam Badrinath


thevortex

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And Badri does not have the style of a conventional sub continental batsmen, who are generally free-flowing in their arm extensions, especially when they’re driving through the ‘V’. He has a very fidgety, jerky sort of technique where most of his drives are sharp jabs than flowing drives. This automatically creates an illusion of an inferior technique, though the truth is probably to the contrary.
Its hardly that. Technique is one thing but having time to play quick bowlers is another. Its not rocket science that to score in domestic cricket you dont need both qualities.
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Did you even watch that inning? The only shot that he had against fast bowlers was the edge. Nothing in front of the wicket. The other innings were embarrassing: Just getting beaten for pace pure and simple and that too on Indian wickets. You've got this annoying tendency of lumping everything that you disagree as statistics and then harp on about "Thats not the way the game is played :)". Now tell us if you actually watched that supposedly heaven-fed 50 and then you may carry on.
Do you perhaps think that I follow the game via Cricinfo's ball by ball commentary? Or catch up via highlights? And yet have such a strong opinion? Of course I watched it. By the way you do not realize what you are talking about if you lump together two phrases such as 'beaten for pace' and 'Indian wickets' in the same sentence! And I dont think I even have to explain that. Let me know if I do. No offense meant. There are very few if any cases where I argue just on the basis of statistics alone. And I have seen many a discussion and an opinion formed solely on the basis of numbers. Not just here of course. Everywhere in the world. What can and is an armchair obsession should not be allowed to supercede cricketing merit and substance. That is my stance. A manifest lack of understanding of the art of batting is exhibited if strokes in the 3rd man region are to be dissed summarily. Guys - G R Vishwanath would have been summarily dismissed as 'useless' if he were batting today by you guys :). [No, I was not talking about late cuts. There seems to be a peremptory dislike towards shots played behind the wicket. Believe me, it is harder to play late than it is to play early. ]
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Did we not have a detailed discussion here on this topic, post 57 onwards? http://www.indiancricketfans.com/showthread.php?t=231111&highlight=Badrinath&page=2
I brought this up in light of his recent innings for the Chennai Super Kings in reasonably challenging conditions. Yes it was a T20 but it was a vignette of talent for those who are actually prepared to have an open mind - even if a shot is played through the 3rd man region :).
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And you’d think that for someone to have scored a 50 in his debut innings, when only 2 other batsmen in the entire team touched double figures would have worked in his favor, but hell no! These days, You not only have score runs, you also have to ‘LOOK’ good. The fact of the matter is, If Badri is persisted as a middle order batsmen over the next 1-2 seasons, he might well fail. His technique might well be found out ultimately. But that shouldn’t discount him from at least getting those chances because he deserves them. The notion that he will be a failure in internationa cricket because of an inaequate technique is right now just that - A notion. You really dont unless the dude's given at least a half-decent run in the side. Even as younger players have won their chances through the glamor of their game or their ODI successes, the dude has been foot soldier, scoring runs at almost every single opportunity he has gotten And it is those sort of guys whom you want to reward with a persistent run. That sends a clear message to everyone that the team respects a disciplined work-ethic more than flashy strokeplay. But for Badri alone it seems, the barometer of selection criteria is always a notch higher than other guys. Unfortunately, his failure in some of the high profile FC matches has had a disproportionally negative impact on his chances. And this might sound untrue, but having a Chairman of Selectors from Tamil Nadu has probably worked against Badri. Even though Srikkanth’s tenure began rather promisingly, he has run into some rough weather recently, with what selection muck-up in the tests against South Africa, the recent confusions over youngsters in the ODIs and our fiascos in the champions trophy and world T20. So when Yuvraj was injured for the Lanka tests, they chose to play it safe and went for Raina, instead of sticking to the back-up middle order bat from the previous series, which was Badri. They probably didn’t want to get more bad press and be accused of biased selection, even though sticking with Badri would have been the right thing to do. P.S; Nothing against Raina. He got his chance, he grabbed it with both hands, God bless his soul!

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Revisionism in all it's glory - Badrinath's edges are not being compared to late cuts and deliberate and controlled guides through thirdman! :laugh: Go watch the innings again since you need to refresh your memory, till then here are some snippets from the cricinfo commentary : 14.3 Steyn to Badrinath, FOUR, 86.4 mph, around the off stump line, moving away, Badri tries to defend and the ball rushes off the outer edge and runs away past gully 31.4 Morkel to Badrinath, FOUR, 86.6 mph, short of length, straightening outside off stump, Badri is slightly late in getting foward to defend and pushes it with an open bat-face and the ball runs off the edge through the vacant third slip region 47.1 Morkel to Badrinath, FOUR, 86.9 mph, edged through the slip cordon. It was full in length and well outside off stump, Badri reached out to drive through covers and it went between the slips and gully. The ball moved away with the shiny side Gundappa Badrinath. :hysterical:

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Hmmm....where have 'we' seen Don Badrinath perform in challenging conditions? On the contrary he has failed in every single high profile FC match over the last few years. Failed against South Africa in tests' date=' failed in 2009 Irani trophy, failed in BP XI match against Australia, failed in 2008 Irani trophy, failed against Australia A in 2008, failed in 2007 Irani trophy.[/quote']
Its hardly that. Technique is one thing but having time to play quick bowlers is another. Its not rocket science that to score in domestic cricket you dont need both qualities.
I don’t know anyone could possibly call his performance against South Africa a ‘failure’. He didn’t set the world on fire sure, but he came out looking at least decent. Look my point is this – I am not a big fan of Badri per se. I am not entirely confident about his technique either. But I am not entirely convinced he will be a failure either, because I’ve seen enough of his batting to know that he has what it takes to be a reasonable success at the international level. To me, my support for him stems from a more philosophical position that we need to reward the foot-soldiers of FC cricket, who have toiled away for season after season, than the young jedis who crop up from nowhere. He has earned a right to be the back-up middle order bat and he needs to get his share of decent chances. If he fails, I am all for jettisoning him and moving on, but we don’t know that yet. Did anyone think someone like Sadagoppan Ramesh with his concrete feet could possibly any sort success at the international level, much less as an opener?
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Revisionism in all it's glory - Badrinath's edges are not being compared to late cuts and deliberate and controlled guides through thirdman! :laugh: Go watch the innings again since you need to refresh your memory, till then here are some snippets from the cricinfo commentary : 14.3 Steyn to Badrinath, FOUR, 86.4 mph, around the off stump line, moving away, Badri tries to defend and the ball rushes off the outer edge and runs away past gully 31.4 Morkel to Badrinath, FOUR, 86.6 mph, short of length, straightening outside off stump, Badri is slightly late in getting foward to defend and pushes it with an open bat-face and the ball runs off the edge through the vacant third slip region 47.1 Morkel to Badrinath, FOUR, 86.9 mph, edged through the slip cordon. It was full in length and well outside off stump, Badri reached out to drive through covers and it went between the slips and gully. The ball moved away with the shiny side Gundappa Badrinath. :hysterical:
:) So I guess you are at least prepared to accept that other than these 12 runs the rest could be credited to Badrinath? :) Honestly, I would not search for ways to discredit that half century if I were you. When you were so prepared to discard him as 'useless' on the basis of him being shot out by Steyn, then you have got to be prepared to acknowledge a half century scored against the same attack. That would just be common sense - leave alone cricketing sense. If not well, then all power to you. And as is often becoming the case we agree to disagree. You seem to have followed the game for sometime Outsider. So I dont think I need to remind you that there is some not inconsiderable skill required to keep the ball down even when edging into the 3rd man area. No, I am not going to defend his edges. And I think marris put my sentiments in great perspective. I am a big fan of Indian cricket. If I think Badri could be of use to Indian cricket, I will say it out. If not, then well...wish him all the best and keep quiet. In this case I think he still has enough to contribute to Indian cricket. To those who talk about age, that alone can never be the criterion. Talk about fitness if you want. Is Badri any less fitter than some of the other names in the discussion?
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I don’t know anyone could possibly call his performance against South Africa a ‘failure’. He didn’t set the world on fire sure, but he came out looking at least decent.
Please increase my vocabulary for I can't think of any other word to describe 63 runs in 3 innings. And in the one score of substance, he did not look convincing at all, was edging all the time, was hardly able to play any emphatic strokes, not just aggressive but even his defense was not assured.
Look my point is this – I am not a big fan of Badri per se. I am not entirely confident about his technique either. But I am not entirely convinced he will be a failure either, because I’ve seen enough of his batting to know that he has what it takes to be a reasonable success at the international level. To me, my support for him stems from a more philosophical position that we need to reward the foot-soldiers of FC cricket, who have toiled away for season after season, than the young jedis who crop up from nowhere. He has earned a right to be the back-up middle order bat and he needs to get his share of decent chances. If he fails, I am all for jettisoning him and moving on, but we don’t know that yet. Did anyone think someone like Sadagoppan Ramesh with his concrete feet could possibly any sort success at the international level, much less as an opener?
You can't have formulaic selections with regards to foot soldiers etc. etc. Over the last 3 years he has failed in every single high profile First class outing. You cannot just keep making selections purely on domestic averages. Why would you even need selectors to do that, just feed the data into a computer and you will end up with Ajay Sharma playing for India instead of Tendulkar. It's not that Badrinath has not been given chances. He has done well in domestic cricket and has been regularly picked for BP XI, Rest of India etc. but has failed in each of these outings. That's a huge indication that he does not have the game to take on to the next level and it clearly showed in the series against South Africa. Sure he got an edgy 50 in 3 attempts, but he was certainly not going to go anywhere with such a limited game, so it's good he has been jettisoned.
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To me, my support for him stems from a more philosophical position that we need to reward the foot-soldiers of FC cricket, who have toiled away for season after season, than the young jedis who crop up from nowhere. He has earned a right to be the back-up middle order bat and he needs to get his share of decent chances. If he fails, I am all for jettisoning him and moving on, but we don’t know that yet. Did anyone think someone like Sadagoppan Ramesh with his concrete feet could possibly any sort success at the international level, much less as an opener?
By extension this should also mean that you would want people like Vinay Kumar and Ranadeb Bose to get a 'fair chance' in the test side. Badrinath did get a few chances but when you are as brutally exposed as he was in the Eden gardens test despite his best efforts and with no scope for improvement, you can close the case with so many waiting in the wings. There are some people who belong to just first class cricket, especially when the gulf between first class and test cricket is so great.
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There arent too many other options in the queue ahead of him for a shot at middle order slots numbers 4,5 or 6...I mean beyond Kohli, Yuvraj...? Badrinath scores loads at Ranji and Zonal level and that always puts him in contention..however the few instances I have read about him versus anything of a higher than state level quality he has not exactly set things alight, and in fact other middle order contenders have done better. I do not think he played vs Aus for BP XI last year when Rahane made a ton as opener, but in 08 vs Aus when Kohli and Rohit totally took Krejza to the cleaners Badri struggled. Even Yuvraj made a ton. Think he was batting at 3 which might not be his first choice but not really an excuse...I was really hoping he would make a point then but sadly didnt manage it. I remember when he led the Emerging players squad to Aus I think in 08 or 09, both Rahane and Kohli out scored him. Even Vijay did not do well that tour. Strangely did not tour England with India A last season. Would have been a good oppo I remember Chandan you wrote about watching him struggle facing Ishant in an Irani trophy match vs Delhi too...

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I remember Chandan you wrote about watching him struggle facing Ishant in an Irani trophy match vs Delhi too...
I mentioned that. I watched the match live I criticized Badri a lot for that. But i think he has improved since i saw him last. Kohli has to come ahead of everyone. Then Pujara , Vijay and Badrinath in that order. You cannot totally write him off But he is a bit nervous at the highest stage. Vijay who is experiencewise below Badri for state side looks lot more relaxed at the test level. Granted he struggled in SA. But when he did have opportunity to play big innings he looked lot more relaxed compared to Badri. I want to know the story behind ABinav Mukund. He has been very good in both list A and First class game. We do have lot of healthy competition.
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Why RGS? All flash' date=' no game.[/quote'] I'm just giving examples of players who have done as well or better than him domestic cricket. I don't think Rohit should be given a chance before Kohli or Rahane, as the Badrinath supporters are saying. And one needs to be at least consistent in arguments. If you are proposing Badrinath for a test spot, please also propose Gagandeep and Joginder as well - they are top domestic performers, which is the only thing Badrinath has. He is the modern Ajay Sharma - will keep churning them out in domestic cricket but is past the age where he can play quality fast bowling at the international level. It's just a huge fallacy that Badrinath has been discriminated against. Despite his limited ability he got two test matches and floundered. There are many other cricketers with as good or better domestic records who did not even get one shot.
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I remember Chandan you wrote about watching him struggle facing Ishant in an Irani trophy match vs Delhi too...
Yes. Here is the post where I had discussed about it in detail: Link
If I remember right, he played just that one Test match. As a debutant. And no, I do not get where you make out all these character traits such as timid, fearful etc. If being made to look a shambles against extreme pace is all that a batsman needs to boot him out then many if not all of the very good batsmen are going to go out!! I am sorry but your analysis does not make any sense whatsoever. And you take 1 Test to make all those assessements? Bravo. But I am not sure that is on.
First test : Badri scores 56 and 6 Second Test: Badri scores 1. Which Indian batsman looks in shambles either against extreme pace or quality spin? I don't think anyone apart from Yuvraj does and hence he is yet to cement his place in Indian XI. Any other international batsman who looks in shambles against pace? Any Australian, South African, or even English? Please enlighten me. And other batsmen were also playing with Badrinath. They went on to hit tons despite having less experience? They were not in shambles against those quality bowlers! Anyway, don't think Badri's fate would be reversed even if we keep discussing about his shorcomings or plus points till the cows come home. This is the scorecard of Irani tie: Link And this is BP XI vs Aus XI So this is not just one test assessment but a number of FC matches and other international matches. If that doesn't make sense to you then I can't help you much.
Does not matter about First Class. You did not ask Sachin the same question. Am not saying everybody is Sachin. If Unadkat can go on A tours and shine then he needs to be in the equation. Period.
You are wrong once again Vortex. Sachin had a solid FC season in which he scored tons in all his Ranji, Duleep and Irani debut matches. After that only was he chosen. You are saying that Unadkat can go on A tours as if we have A tours every three months! This was a tour after a long long period and Unadkat excelled on a green track against WI A whose batsmen are not used to playing on such track. I'll like to wait here.
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