CC1981 Posted May 10, 2007 Share Posted May 10, 2007 Re: 'Islamic radicals' chargedwith plot to kill FortDix soldiers The Modis and the Thackerays are there becuase the Gandhis and the Nehrus sold us short What should Gandhi and Nehru have done then ? bear in mind that partition of India was a good thing even from most hindu perspectives - it did dilute the pool of fundie islamists in India significantly as they immigrated to Pakistan. The Deobandi school of fanaticism is one such example which was seriously weakened in India due to immigration of deobandhs to Sindh/Karachi. and the Mulayams and VP Singhs continue in that path as we speak .... Does anybody have the balls to go against these guys ? So two wrongs make a right, is that what you are saying ? Justifying the terror unleashed by modi and hindu fanatics is no different than justifying terror unleashed by SIMI or LeT in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CC1981 Posted May 10, 2007 Share Posted May 10, 2007 Re: 'Islamic radicals' chargedwith plot to kill FortDix soldiers Is that why there is still a annual "Julus" on the occasion of death anniversary of founder/reviver of Deobandi school of thought IN INDIA ? I said weakened..not eliminated. Pay attention! So let me guess we should continue to bend over ala Gandhi and if the fertilizer hits the fan abandon ship ? Correct ? Well i asked you first- what do you think Gandhi/Nehru should've done ? Do you have an answer ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted May 10, 2007 Share Posted May 10, 2007 Re: 'Islamic radicals' chargedwith plot to kill FortDix soldiers The Modis and the Thackerays are there becuase the Gandhis and the Nehrus sold us short .... BB, Doesnt it bother you to mention Modi and Thackeray alongside Gandhi and Nehru in the same sentence? By the way can you elaborate on that sentiment? What exactly do you mean by that. xxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CC1981 Posted May 11, 2007 Share Posted May 11, 2007 Re: 'Islamic radicals' chargedwith plot to kill FortDix soldiers and you dont take out annual julus hold seminars establish research departments in govt universities with such "weakened" support. Ofcourse you do. There ar annual seminars & stuff here in Canada too for the muslims and everyone agrees that the support here is weaker for muslims than in middle east. And by answers I mean ANSWERS minus the Pedantics and verbal gymnastics. Never confuse your lack of full understanding of English as verbal gymnastics & pedantics. The words i choose are often carefully considered for their precise meaning - something you obviously do not and hence end up making statements that are either dystopian or utopian to the extreme. Yes I do ....But Do you have the answers to my questions ? Ofcourse i do. But since i asked you first, can i expect an answer from you first ? As i asked first, what do you think Gandhi & Nehru should've done ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CC1981 Posted May 11, 2007 Share Posted May 11, 2007 Re: 'Islamic radicals' chargedwith plot to kill FortDix soldiers Not before you provide a guarantee that you wont indulge in the usual pedantics which you are well known for. How can i provide a garantee about something that is based on your perception ? Just what exactly is pedantics and what is not is ambiguous even on an individual basis as it varies from day to day and from topic to topic. So one cannot provide the garantee you ask for. Now, are you gonna quit beating around the bush and just give me an answer to the following question please ? What do you think Nehru & Gandhi should've done ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CC1981 Posted May 11, 2007 Share Posted May 11, 2007 Re: 'Islamic radicals' chargedwith plot to kill FortDix soldiers Not my perception ..... its a fairly majority consensus ... I hate to break that out to you ... but you asked. You think its a majority consensus. Again, a perception of your reality. Regardless, i guess you are not very well versed in the school of sciences & logic or else you would not be asking me to make a garantee about something as ambiguous as 'pedantics'. Besides, if you want a definition of the word pedantics, look no further than your last few posts in this thread where you are evading a very simple question: What do you think Nehru and Gandhi should've done ? Your failure to respond leads me to the conclusion that you do not have an answer. You claiming you have an answer means diddly squat if you cannot state your answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted May 11, 2007 Share Posted May 11, 2007 Re: 'Islamic radicals' chargedwith plot to kill FortDix soldiers Read up on freedom at midnight and how the Partition was anything but a equitable solution. Ah I have read Freedom at Midnight, quite a nice book too if I may add. But like every other book it is no be all and end all of an argument. And just so we dont get nasty in this discussion it would be better if you didnt assume that other person has not read the book(your tone sounded like that). By the way does it bother you that Gandhi sucked up to the ML big time and turned a total blind eye to the situation caused by ML despite being aware of their duplicity and lack of shame ? Could you be specific about this? Any particular incident in mind? INC and ML were two different identities who contested elections together, often one side boycotting while other participated. So what exactly is the sucking up allegation you are bringing forth? xxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CC1981 Posted May 11, 2007 Share Posted May 11, 2007 Re: 'Islamic radicals' chargedwith plot to kill FortDix soldiers So what exactly is the sucking up allegation you are bringing forth? I think in his vocabulary, Gandhi refusing to retaliate against muslims like the fundie muslims from ML threatened to retaliate against Hindus is ' sucking up' in his books. Ie, if you arnt a fundie facing a fundie, you = suckup according to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted May 11, 2007 Share Posted May 11, 2007 Re: 'Islamic radicals' chargedwith plot to kill FortDix soldiers his eagerness to help ML with their pan-islamic cause a.k.a Khilafat movement and getting burnt very badly and confessing to confidants that it was the nature of the beast and then going on to repeat the whole thing again years later .... Two points here BB: 1) Khilafat movement itself was not bad. It was a good occassion to get rid of British once and for all. Gandhi was always looking to bring Hindu-Muslim together in the fight and so he supported it. I have absolutely no problems with that. Now how exactly did he burn his fingers? I ask you so I dont base my answers on any assumption. 2) Nature of the beast statement has its own loopholes. For starters I have heard of the statement but havent actually traced it to a Gandhi book, like "My Experiments with Truth". Secondly much as there were Muslims that could not be trusted there were enough Muslims in INC that did as much as Hindus did. Someone like Khan Ghaffar Khan probably did more than Hindus, heck he practically put Pathans on line as he refused to join Pakistan. So I can see why Gandhi had trust in Muslims just as much as he had in Hindus. xxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kumble_rocks Posted May 11, 2007 Author Share Posted May 11, 2007 Re: 'Islamic radicals' chargedwith plot to kill FortDix soldiers Would you support legal action against Modi or thackerey. The Modis and the Thackerays are there becuase the Gandhis and the Nehrus sold us short .... and the Mulayams and VP Singhs continue in that path as we speak .... Does anybody have the balls to go against these guys ? Its a classic chicken and egg thing. I can agree with you that VP singh and Mulayam are apologist thugs who have played vote bank politics based on caste and religion. Legal action should definitely taken against these two , especially against Mulayam for his alleged tie up with Terrorist organizations like SIMI. Would you also support similar legal actions against Modi and Thackerey ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CC1981 Posted May 11, 2007 Share Posted May 11, 2007 Re: 'Islamic radicals' chargedwith plot to kill FortDix soldiers Forget belling the cat .... try get a consesus right here on this forum to get these thugs dealt with and see how far it gets ... Now that is the absolute root of the problem. You will not get a consensus or even support of the thinking ones with comments simply like 'take care of these thugs'. That is sensationalist, full of rhetoric and utterly pointless statement because it doesnt, in the least bit, identify just who exactly these thugs are and what should possibly be done to counter their threat. Unless you define your problem and algorithm of the solution properly, people will always shrug off your psuedocode. So maybe if you came up with ideas on who the problematic people are and how to deal with them, instead of just saying 'deal with the fackers', it'd carry some merit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kumble_rocks Posted May 11, 2007 Author Share Posted May 11, 2007 Re: 'Islamic radicals' chargedwith plot to kill FortDix soldiers I have no issues on getting justice ... be it Mulayam or Modi .... But I have a huge problem when people put the apologist thugs on a higher pedestal just because they are projected as "bending over backwards" .. a peculiar and sad trend started by Gandhi. Their is some truth to your statement here. In my opinion , any party which opposes uniform civil code are apologist thugs . We should implement uniform civil code and anybody opposing it is an enemy of democracy and legal action should be taken against them. This means no more personal laws based on religion. It is unfortunate that we have to endure this kind of BS for so many years because of the Psecs. But in the same token , hindu facists groups like Shiv Sena should also be indicted for their alleged role in mumbai riots. And I would also keep a close vigil at all madrassas in India. All they teach is religious bigotry in my opinion. If they teach only koran , I am fine with that. But if they teach hatred for other religions , then they should be banned. We need secular education for our kids . Not religious doctrine from childhood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kumble_rocks Posted May 11, 2007 Author Share Posted May 11, 2007 Re: 'Islamic radicals' chargedwith plot to kill FortDix soldiers Forget belling the cat .... try get a consesus right here on this forum to get these thugs dealt with and see how far it gets ... Now that is the absolute root of the problem. You will not get a consensus or even support of the thinking ones with comments simply like 'take care of these thugs'. That is sensationalist, full of rhetoric and utterly pointless statement because it doesnt, in the least bit, identify just who exactly these thugs are and what should possibly be done to counter their threat. Unless you define your problem and algorithm of the solution properly, people will always shrug off your psuedocode. So maybe if you came up with ideas on who the problematic people are and how to deal with them, instead of just saying 'deal with the fackers', it'd carry some merit. Would you support legal action against mulayam sin.gh yadav for his tacit support for SIMI ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CC1981 Posted May 11, 2007 Share Posted May 11, 2007 Re: 'Islamic radicals' chargedwith plot to kill FortDix soldiers Would you support legal action against mulayam sin.gh yadav for his tacit support for SIMI ? Can't comment really. I know fack-all about MSY and SIMI story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CC1981 Posted May 11, 2007 Share Posted May 11, 2007 Re: 'Islamic radicals' chargedwith plot to kill FortDix soldiers When has lack of info ever stopped you from saying anything you want on the topic ... I dont comment on topics i am completely unawares of. Go on and find me a single facking post where i directly addressed Mulayam & SIMI situation. And why are you evading my question ? How does one debate with you ? You said that Gandhi and Nehru sold us out and disagreed with them. Okay. Good.Maybe you are right. But when I ask you 'fine, what do you think Gandhi/Nehru should've done ?', you are utterly evasive and silent. Why ? If you are not going to even have any sort of debate, you might as well say ' Gandhi & Nehru sold us out, they suck and i said so'. Atleast then we'll know not to take you seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kumble_rocks Posted May 11, 2007 Author Share Posted May 11, 2007 Re: 'Islamic radicals' chargedwith plot to kill FortDix soldiers Bhai Log !. Thoda Shanti se debate karte hai. After all it's friday ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CC1981 Posted May 11, 2007 Share Posted May 11, 2007 Re: 'Islamic radicals' chargedwith plot to kill FortDix soldiers or Like the Pushyamitra Sunga thing that you keep throwing every time one talks about Genocides ... Err i am not unaware of this topic. or the Northern India kings not having offered / not offered resistance to Islamic invasion depending on what floats your boat ... That is a categoric misrepresentation of my position. I've said there was no hindu resistance. I've clarified on this - said that it was in nationalism yes, but never the 'dharam-yuddh' as you tried to spin it like a fundie. Why do you feel the urge to lie and misrepresent ? Is this a cheapo tactic from you or do you suffer from Amnesia ? Need more ? How ironic that you are whining about pedantics from me and yet for nearly two pages, its YOU who is engaging in pedantics. Arrey baba, enough bakwaas giri, enough pedantics...just get on with the facking debate. You said Gandhi and Nehru sold us out and were wrong. I am saying ( and i said 2 facking pages ago) ' fine. good. WHat do you think Gandhi/Nehru should've done?' Now the ball is in your court for this debate to progress..otherwise this goes around in circles and i am sorry but not interested in diversionary tactics from you. Either put up, or say thats just what you 'feel like' and get it over with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CC1981 Posted May 11, 2007 Share Posted May 11, 2007 Re: 'Islamic radicals' chargedwith plot to kill FortDix soldiers Is that why you werent able to tell exactly what was the destruction caused by Pushyamitra Sunga ... if at all there was any ? False allegation, yet again. Feel free to read my responses to Lurker Your response to Lurker doesnt address my question. You are underlining what you think Gandhi did terribly wrong, nature of the beast, this admission, that chutiyagiri, etc etc. You and Lurker are raging on about that. But thats not what i asked. I asked ' what do you think Gandhi/Nehru should've done ?' Can i get an answer to that ? Lets say for a moment that i agree with you that Nehru + Gandhi were total gandus and chutiya par supreme. Now what ? what should've been done ? Want proof again ? Yes please. It boggles my mind how much you can twist my words. I just wrote a crapload about history recently, underlining bengal's resistance to islamic invasion etc etc. so how can you possibly allege tht i think hindu kings didnt fight the muslims ? My entire facking point was there was no dharm-yuddh as you were potraying hindus to've been in a 'dharam yuddh' vs the muslim lords all through muslim occupation. History confirms that there was no 'dharm yuddh' but nationalistic fights with 'bharat' being the rallying cry. Fortunately for us, most of our ancestors wernt as fundie hindus as you are and they were way too accepting of other faiths like buddhism/jains/ajivins etc. to simply tote the hindu fundie line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kumble_rocks Posted May 11, 2007 Author Share Posted May 11, 2007 Re: 'Islamic radicals' chargedwith plot to kill FortDix soldiers Would you support legal action against mulayam sin.gh yadav for his tacit support for SIMI ? Can't comment really. I know fack-all about MSY and SIMI story. You got to be kidding me. This guy is a known SIMI sympathizer who has denied SIMI?s involvement Ayodhya and Varanasi incidents . Refused to take action against them numerous times just to appease muslims in his home state.Even the Lucknow district authorities who had filed cases against Samajwadi Party leaders for inciting violence in the aftermath of the ban imposed on the Students Islamic Movement of India (SIMI). Anyway , I stand on record that legal action should be pursued against this guy and his party members. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CC1981 Posted May 11, 2007 Share Posted May 11, 2007 Re: 'Islamic radicals' chargedwith plot to kill FortDix soldiers Anyway , I stand on record that legal action should be pursued against this guy and his party members. If your above synopsis is correct, then i agree. Btw, the only thing i know of Mulayaam's career as politician is when I was back in India doing my grade 10s around 96-97 and he was the defence minister. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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