'Islamic radicals' chargedwith plot to kill FortDix soldiers

[Guest dada_rocks]

Re: 'Islamic radicals' chargedwith plot to kill FortDix soldiers

Millions killed. But where were these millions killed? Why is it that the states that had some of the most, if not most, Hindu-Muslim population did not suffer as much casuality? Why is it that more people died at the Punjab border than UP,Bihar,Bengal put together!! Why is it that inspite of having a substantial Muslim population in Bihar/UP there were hardly any riots(to the standards of Noakholi or Punjab border).

Bihar was not political hotbed bengal (Noakhali) was. In fact jinnah saheb gave the clarion call of band in Kolkatta smug in his belief that Bengalis are easy prey which one of his lieutenant Suharawardi expressed. May be they over-estimated bengalis easyness. BTW Jinnah giving clarion call of band for pakistan in Kolkata sounds like Hindu mahasabha calling for lahore band for Akhand Bharat. Hence Jinnah to me gets award of biggest rioter.

[Guest dada_rocks]

Re: 'Islamic radicals' chargedwith plot to kill FortDix soldiers

We obviously got screwed over big time. You can't agree to a partition based on religion and that too with two distinct sections on either side and still have a great number of population from that religion left behind. Gandhi/Nehru should have told Jinnah this: "Show us a plan to take all YOUR people to a separate piece of continguous land whose size will be proportional to the pupulation being take out, and we will agree to it, otherwise STFU and stay behind as a single secular country".

Precisely. :wtg:

[Guest dada_rocks]

Re: 'Islamic radicals' chargedwith plot to kill FortDix soldiers that bully part was originally publisehd in young India gandhi's mouth-piece. :wtg:

[Guest dada_rocks]

Re: 'Islamic radicals' chargedwith plot to kill FortDix soldiers Jinnah saheb's one point election manifesto of 1946:"if you want Pakistan, vote for the Muslim League" Jinnah Saheb's election solgan consuption for illiterate mass at large:?Muslim hai to Muslim League mein aa? Result: In federal election Jinnah saheb's muslim league wins all 30 seats reserved for muslims. In earlier held provincial election of same year, Muslim League captured approximately 95 percent of the Muslim seats. where is the doubt :wall:

[kumble_rocks]

Re: 'Islamic radicals' chargedwith plot to kill FortDix soldiers

"There is no doubt in my mind that in the majority of quarrels the Hindus come out second best. But my own experience confirms the opinion that the Mussalman as a rule is a bully, and the Hindu as a rule is a coward. I have noticed this in railway trains, on public roads, and in the quar?rels which I had the privilege of settling. Need the Hindu blame the Mussalman for his cowardice? Where there are cowards, there will always be bullies."

If Gandhi has made this statement , then it is beyond me how can anyone accuse him of being a PSec ? :shrug:

[Guest dada_rocks]

Re: 'Islamic radicals' chargedwith plot to kill FortDix soldiers Ambedkar u wud have thought will gravitate towards muslims given untouchability he had to overwhelm in order to come forward in lifebut guy was true genius he exactly knew the basic character of muslim folks. His words when he was devisisng special provision for J/k assembly to Sheikh Abdullah is a lesson in patriotism. Do read it if u get your hands on Ambedkar's biography. Forget about general rank and file the kind of regard they had for Gandhi of all people hardly makes a good reading. I beckon islamist and their apologist, find me a serious criticism of Mohd Ali when he uttered those words of "worst muslaman in my view is better than gandhi" at the peak of his enthusiasm for the bloody alien cause of khilafat. You won't find any.

[Gaurav]

Re: 'Islamic radicals' chargedwith plot to kill FortDix soldiers

We obviously got screwed over big time. You can't agree to a partition based on religion and that too with two distinct sections on either side and still have a great number of population from that religion left behind. Gandhi/Nehru should have told Jinnah this: "Show us a plan to take all YOUR people to a separate piece of continguous land whose size will be proportional to the pupulation being take out, and we will agree to it, otherwise STFU and stay behind as a single secular country".

:wtg: Very well said!

[Guest dada_rocks]

Re: 'Islamic radicals' chargedwith plot to kill FortDix soldiers

If Gandhi has made this statement , then it is beyond me how can anyone accuse him of being a PSec ?

Poor gandhi did everything in his capacity to woo these folks but they kept giving him cold shoulder ad these words came in hours of utter despair . Surprise surprise the context in which these words ere said involved Godhara muslims, needless to say they are not laudatory for sure. Godhara didn't turn into what it's over-night it seems to have a rich history of communal events. Even here he is giving them clean cheat for being bully it's hindus he is accusing of being coward and if u read between the lines there is an indirect exhortation for purging the same.

[kumble_rocks]

Re: 'Islamic radicals' chargedwith plot to kill FortDix soldiers

If Gandhi has made this statement ' date=' then it is beyond me how can anyone accuse him of being a PSec ?[/quote'] What should he be accused of ? And yes he indeed said those things and also wrote them down ... in his mouth piece "Young India" on 29/5/1924;

I got to agree with you on this. Insensitive and damning statement made by Gandhi here. He was No 1 apologist , that is very clear for anybody to see. Like you said before , he was evolved philosophically much more than common man. Can you reason behind his apologistic tendencies. I can't. After all , his evolution was based on hindu brahminical traditions of pacifism,ahimsa, vegetarianism ,nirvana etc which is far removed from islamic philosophy.

[CC1981]

Re: 'Islamic radicals' chargedwith plot to kill FortDix soldiers

which is the reason why I said we were sold short by Gandhi and then Nehru continued that in a different way ... Its one thing to try reason with Nutcases maybe once ..... (Even that is a luxury if you ask me) But doing it twice and more is just utter stupidity in which case we deserve what we get ..

Trying to reason ?! HAHAHAHAHA! Man you are delusional to the extreme. Trying reason would be asking the question ' okay, if we were sold short by Gandhi & Nehru, what should Gandhi/Nehru have done?'. Trying reason would be answering that question succintly. Not running around bringing 1001 different past threads/topics etc. in the discussion for pages. If you want to reason, answer the f*cking question !

[Guest dada_rocks]

Re: 'Islamic radicals' chargedwith plot to kill FortDix soldiers

which is the reason why I said we were sold short by Gandhi and then Nehru continued that in a different way ... Its one thing to try reason with Nutcases maybe once ..... (Even that is a luxury if you ask me) But doing it twice and more is just utter stupidity in which case we deserve what we get ..

Trying to reason ?! HAHAHAHAHA! Man you are delusional to the extreme. Trying reason would be asking the question ' okay, if we were sold short by Gandhi & Nehru, what should Gandhi/Nehru have done?'. Trying reason would be answering that question succintly. Not running around bringing 1001 different past threads/topics etc. in the discussion for pages. If you want to reason, answer the f*cking question !

Idiot ur question have ben answerd but it seems u lack basic comprehension skill

[CC1981]

Re: 'Islamic radicals' chargedwith plot to kill FortDix soldiers

Idiot ur question have ben answerd but it seems u lack basic comprehension skill

No it hasnt been.Not by whom i posed to the question to! You just said 'oppose the khilaafat movement' which is of little relevance to this discussion. And even then, simply saying oppose is not enough- what is the action plan in British India apart from boycotting this movment ? How to deal with the partition issue ? etc etc.Answer those and maybe then you can begin to comprehend what a debate is all about.

[kumble_rocks]

Re: 'Islamic radicals' chargedwith plot to kill FortDix soldiers Bhai Log ! Phir tum log shanti ka marg chod rahe ho !. Let's debate chill fully !

[kumble_rocks]

Re: 'Islamic radicals' chargedwith plot to kill FortDix soldiers Personally , I concur with Yoda's post about partition . We definitely were sold short by our leadership. Personally , we should never have agreed to this partition. Additionally , Pakistan had 20% hindus themselves in 1947.I can't understand how that 20 % has been reduced to 3% in just 60 years . Why are they not held accountable by the Indian Ummah or the Psec for the large scale genocide of Hindus in Pakistan. Just out of curiosity , what would have been your solution CC . Would you agree with the assessment that our leadership sold us short during partition.

[Guest dada_rocks]

Re: 'Islamic radicals' chargedwith plot to kill FortDix soldiers

Idiot ur question have ben answerd but it seems u lack basic comprehension skill

No it hasnt been.Not by whom i posed to the question to! You just said 'oppose the khilaafat movement' which is of little relevance to this discussion. And even then, simply saying oppose is not enough- what is the action plan in British India apart from boycotting this movment ? How to deal with the partition issue ? etc etc.Answer those and maybe then you can begin to comprehend what a debate is all about.

check the follow up posts it has been addressed

[Guest dada_rocks]

Re: 'Islamic radicals' chargedwith plot to kill FortDix soldiers

Bhai Log ! Phir tum log shanti ka marg chod rahe ho !. Let's debate chill fully !

apna or cc ka chill yahin hain. tenson nahin lene ka dene ka :lmao:

[CC1981]

Re: 'Islamic radicals' chargedwith plot to kill FortDix soldiers

Just out of curiosity , what would have been your solution CC . Would you agree with the assessment that our leadership sold us short during partition.

Hell no. Partition didnt exactly work out the best for India but the alternative would've been far worse. If you think fundamentalist Islam is a problem in India today, i can only imagine what it'd be like living in a country of 1.5 billion people where 500 million are muslims.... So partition was a good thing for India because it weakened the support structure of fundie Islam in India. I don't wanna listen to the protestation of some here who will produce a mound of islam-related violence in India as a challenge to the 'weakened' tag. Simply because it is common sense that it would've been FAR worse if instead of having Rajasthan as our 'western border', we had Taliban-infested NWFP as our western front, with them moving in and out of INdia freely. As per selling us short, no, i dont think so- i think it would've been more prudent to follow Chanakyaneeti rather than insist on a full withdrawl of Muslims as mandated logically by the partition idea. That'd have been bad for future relations with other minority religion communities where the enemies within and outside could've used this 'booting out the muslims' act as painting a devilish picture for formenting secsessionist movements. What i would've done however that Nehru/Gandhi did not do is infiltrate the mosques and madrassahs in India with pro-India muslims and use them to actively discredit fundie Imams. Wouldn't be averse to using our intelligence services to take out the particularly troublesome ones. I'd have also introduced 'agents of free thoughts' under muslim cover to encourage the development of a less 'Islamic Islam' if that makes any sense on a long term goal. India's special trait in history is that it has the ability to take any foreign influence and turn it into something uniquely 'Indian'. We can do it to Islam too and imo that is a much more feasable, productive and attainable goal than utopian and direction-less Islam bashing and further fuelling the fire by feeding the troll. I'd have kept Islam as a priority agenda for monitoring by the RAW or CID or CBI..whoever the proper sleuthing dept. are and used 'Chanakyaneeti' as espoused by the Arthashastra to deal with the 'enemy within'.

[CC1981]

Re: 'Islamic radicals' chargedwith plot to kill FortDix soldiers

we should have gone as per what Jinnah wanted .... a Pakistan with all Muslims shifted

Its something that 'looks good on paper' but isnt gonna work out. Ethnic cleansing is not going to be a good idea.Solving a problem properly always requires time, money and resources. Lets look at the practicality of all this - not all muslims are bad and not all muslims wanted to leave either. If the ones who didnt want to leave were forced out, there would've been further fighting, confrontation and civil wars in areas such as eastern UP/Hyderabad instead of much more relatively peaceful integration. Furtermore, such act of 'boot the muslims out' would've been the perfect justification needed by the Sikh fundamentalist Khaalistaanis in the 70s and 80s. If this was a 'India who'd booted out Muslims' scenario, the Khalistaani movement would've had FAR more popular support from Sikhs because the rallying cry of 'who hindus do not like, they boot out, first the muslims, now we are denied our maatribhoomi' would have merit on the surface. Quickly, any logical person would conclude that this line of thought 'we should've booted out the muslims as per Jinnah's wishes' is massively short-sighted and practically causing a civil war inside partitioned India. No wonder then that it is an idea espoused by fundie Hindus - fundies, be it hindus, muslims or commies, they just cannot think with a clear mind. They have no concept of Karma or causality of their actions. Hence they rather stupidly go the 'dumb, barbaric way' of open confrontation instead of ways that actually work : the ways of Machiavelli, the ways of Chanakya etc etc. All the answers lie in Arthashastra - a book i am willing to bet NONE of these fundie 'boot the muslims out' hindus have read.

[kumble_rocks]

Re: 'Islamic radicals' chargedwith plot to kill FortDix soldiers

What i would've done however that Nehru/Gandhi did not do is infiltrate the mosques and madrassahs in India with pro-India muslims and use them to actively discredit fundie Imams. Wouldn't be averse to using our intelligence services to take out the particularly troublesome ones.

I would agree on this . Looks like reasonable solution to me. Their were leaders like Maulana Azad who were against Partition and decide to be part of India. Now, for the sake of consistency , would you support similar actions by the FBI in USA. That is, would you be averse to using their intelligence services to take out the particularly troublesome ones . Keep in mind , lefties in USA for the sake of political correctness will not support such actions. Also, would you agree with my post wherein hindu population have been systematically decimated and it stands at roughly 3 % now from 20% peak in 1947.

[CC1981]

Re: 'Islamic radicals' chargedwith plot to kill FortDix soldiers

Now, for the sake of consistency , would you support similar actions by the FBI in USA.

No. The FBI is way too inept and the Yankee ignorance of cultural differences and sensetivity are legendary. The FBI monitoring muslims would end up in 'we cant tell the difference between a mosque and a gurdwara, a whirling dervish and a wahhabist, nor can we tell apart an indian or a muslim' and we ALL would be much more inconvinienced without any productive gain. Why it would work in India and not US is because in India, one cannot tell apart a muslim from a non-muslim save for beard/get-up. A whiteboy sitting in an arab-party sticks out like a sore thumb but a bengali brahmin-turned-buddhist like me can easily grow a beard, wear a topi and recite namaaz in the local masjid.