The last group game: Ind vs WI pre-match talk

[Ultimate_Game]

I think the game against WI is very important, which is why I want to see how the team does w/o the services of Ten and Zak to give others the confidence to take the responsibility and deliver if Ten and Zak fail, which is likely to happen in one of the KOs. And by resting (not playing), Ten and Zak, the game against WI doesn't become less important from what the team wants to achieve. It's importance is only less when compared to the KO games :winky: I would say many would agree with you on playing the best combination too because many think we can't win w/o Ten and Zak, therefore also admitting in a way to themselves that Ind as a team isn't that good w/o these two. Ind to have a chance has to play Ten and Zak, no matter what :P I don't write based on what popular opinion is, but what would help in the longer run or is greater good. In fact my job is to fix problems for my company be it payment issues in South America, Capacity Issues in Asia, Contract issues in Australia, New business opportunity in America, etc. For that I have to work with departments (from logistics, engineering to just abt any) that have their own agenda and idea on how things should be resolved. I have to connect all the dots (which many don't) to do what's best for my company. If I have to do a poll to resolve issues in real life, then nothing would be solved :icflove:

You are putting words in my mouth... I never said we CAN'T win without Zaheer and Tendulkar. I am saying that playing our best team gives us a BETTER chance to win the game, and for me the WI game is a pretty important game in terms of winning.

[yoda]

Chawla may be back folks.

Dhoni explained that since Nehra's last over Chawla's confidence has taken a beating. He also explained that bringing Chawla back may ensure that it won't be a factor going into the knock out stages either for him or others like YKP and Munaf.

[asterix]

Chawla may be back folks.

Yes, I'm ready to revise my presumptions. Chawla might come back as he provides the "variety" in the attack..

[RedFlow]

Resting Zaheer? Haha India even can't think about it!! Gayle Chanderpaul Sarwan Pollard Bravo

[Ultimate_Game]

Resting Zaheer? Haha India even can't think about it!! Gayle Chanderpaul Sarwan Pollard Bravo

To be honest Gayle and pollard are the only ones that scare me. Others India should be able to handle as they can't take the game away from India.

[zen]

You are putting words in my mouth... I never said we CAN'T win without Zaheer and Tendulkar. I am saying that playing our best team gives us a BETTER chance to win the game' date=' and for me the WI game is a pretty important game in terms of winning.[/quote'] How we calculate Ind to have a better chance also comes from our confidence in the ability of others to deliver against WI .... And also on how the "better chance" equates to, i.e. 40% vs 50% or 80% vs 90% (if the comparison is based on higher numbers than the stress on playing both Zak and Ten becomes moot) :winky:

[RedFlow]

To be honest Gayle and pollard are the only ones that scare me. Others India should be able to handle as they can't take the game away from India.

Bravo scored 73 against South Africa and looks dangerous. Sarwan and Chanderpaul are experienced players and they will try their best to target India bowling attack to gain some form. Both of them averages 40+ Their other opener Smith also scored good century in last match. To me it should be a tight match.

[Manny_Pacquiao]

Bravo scored 73 against South Africa and looks dangerous. Sarwan and Chanderpaul are experienced players and they will try their best to target India bowling attack to gain some form. Both of them averages 40+ Their other opener Smith also scored good century in last match. To me it should be a tight match.

it might be close if they chase, but if india is chasing, then its gonna be a really easy win for india. their bowling attack is not capable of troubling the indian batting lineup

[zen]

Bravo scored 73 against South Africa and looks dangerous. Sarwan and Chanderpaul are experienced players and they will try their best to target India bowling attack to gain some form. Both of them averages 40+ Their other opener Smith also scored good century in last match. To me it should be a tight match.

I thought you would be busy calculating Pak's chances against Zim .... Good to know that you found the time to calculate WI chances against Ind :P

[Little_Master]

we are winning this one for sure:isalute:

[Karan114]

Sarwan and Chanderpaul are experienced players and they will try their best to target India bowling attack to gain some form.

Pakistan's attack conceded nearly 100 runs in four overs in their last game...that's the sort of attack that batsmen look to target to gain some form.

[Ultimate_Game]

Bravo scored 73 against South Africa and looks dangerous. Sarwan and Chanderpaul are experienced players and they will try their best to target India bowling attack to gain some form. Both of them averages 40+ Their other opener Smith also scored good century in last match. To me it should be a tight match.

To me a batsman scoring 73, unless he does so in quick time, is not too much of a worry. Chanderpaul may average 40+ but he gets the runs extremely slowly. I am more concerned about Gayle or Pollard playing a blazing innings (80 off 60 or something similar) and taking the match away from us. I am afraid I don't see other batsmen doing so. And the other main worry is Roach who has the potential to rip through a batting order. If Gayle or Pollard don't make a major contribution, or Roach doesn't take a bunch of wkts, I don't see India being troubled much. Especially in Chennai where the wkt should aid spin.

How we calculate Ind to have a better chance also comes from our confidence in the ability of others to deliver against WI .... And also on how the "better chance" equates to, i.e. 40% vs 50% or 80% vs 90% (if the comparison is based on higher numbers than the stress on playing both Zak and Ten becomes moot)

Let me put it this way... if we don't play our best team we should be able to beat WI 6 times out of 10 but with our best team that number goes up to 7 times out of 10. Why would you "rest" players when there's a gap of 8 days between matches is beyond me.

[ghost]

Sorry to be a party-pooper guys, but my friend's dog has picked WI to beat India in the last group game:nervous: Hope its wrong:nervous: And oh.... BD to beat Netherlands tomorrow ! Let's wait and see.............

[Ultimate_Game]

Sorry to be a party-pooper guys, but my friend's dog has picked WI to beat India in the last group game:nervous: Hope its wrong:nervous: And oh.... BD to beat Netherlands tomorrow ! Let's wait and see.............

I hope you are putting your money where you friends' dog's paw is :winky:

[zen]

. Let me put it this way... if we don't play our best team we should be able to beat WI 6 times out of 10 but with our best team that number goes up to 7 times out of 10. Why would you "rest" players when there's a gap of 8 days between matches is beyond me.

60% or 70% chances makes Ind the favs. If it was 50:50, I would still understand your PoV. To me, this appears to be imore abt the fear of losing than anything else To quote one of my earlier lines on resting: "by resting I mean keeping them out of the game and reducing the chances of possible break down and thus not necessarily to give them rest out of over exposure" To summarize: The rest is basically to sort out a few positions, make the team perform w/o these two, give more responsibility to others (thus also show confidence in their ability to fill those shoes) keeping in mind the nature of KOs and the chances of Ten or Zak having an off-day in one of the 3 KO games. To win the WC, we need contributions from everyone, the other 9 players. The last group game is our last chance to sort these things out (since we haven't yet) and get those other 9 going keeping the bigger picture (the greater good) in mind, i.e. to win the WC :winky:

[zen]

Sorry to be a party-pooper guys, but my friend's dog has picked WI to beat India in the last group game:nervous: .

:nervous: As long as it is Ind last defeat in this WC, I won't mind it :yay: .... My neighbors dog tailed waved at a tie so you never know :P Though the loss against SA could have our last in this WC, I like the pattern of 4 (w/o loss)-1(loss)-4 (w/o loss) then 4-2-3

[Ultimate_Game]

60% or 70% chances makes Ind the favs. If it was 50:50, I would still understand your PoV. To me, this appears to be imore abt the fear of losing than anything else To quote one of my earlier lines on resting: "by resting I mean keeping them out of the game and reducing the chances of possible break down and thus not necessarily to give them rest out of over exposure" To summarize: The rest is basically to sort out a few positions, make the team perform w/o these two, give more responsibility to others (thus also show confidence in their ability to fill those shoes) keeping in mind the nature of KOs and the chances of Ten or Zak having an off-day in one of the 3 KO games. To win the WC, we need contributions from everyone, the other 9 players. The last group game is our last chance to sort these things out (since we haven't yet) and get those other 9 going keeping the bigger picture (the greater good) in mind, i.e. to win the WC :winky:

We are favorites but not a certainty to win the game and we have to make sure we win the WI game. This is not the time to experiment and talk about "responsibility". We have enough questions already - middle order frailty, death over bowling, fielding, second spinner etc. and we have only one game to go. That's why we need to play our best combination so the team and all the players in the team know what to expect come knockouts. At this point we need to try our best to win the game. And the knockout end of the tourney is only 3 games! It's not as if players will need to play 10 games and everyone should be in great touch. For the next 3 games we want to ensure the team is settled and all our key players are in fine nick.

[b555]

but if we lose tomorrow, how good are our chances to proceed ahead?

[zen]

We are favorites but not a certainty to win the game and we have to make sure we win the WI game. This is not the time to experiment and talk about "responsibility". We have enough questions already - middle order frailty' date=' death over bowling, fielding, second spinner etc. and we have only one game to go. That's why we need to play our best combination so the team and all the players in the team know what to expect come knockouts. At this point we need to try our best to win the game. And the knockout end of the tourney is only 3 games! It's not as if players will need to play 10 games and everyone should be in great touch. For the next 3 games we want to ensure the team is settled and all our key players are in fine nick.[/quote'] Since we have enough questions, we have to use this game to seek answers and not bury things under carpet (Ten and Zak) :winky: .... The players already know what to expect in the KO, that's not the question. The question is to have everyone in the team prepare (esp mentally) to deliver in the KOs and not rely solely on Ten and Zak. Also pick out the best ones from Sree and Nehra and give Raina some confidence too, if he has to come in later on for whatever reasons. Ashwin needs to get a game too. If you think that not everyone needs to be at their best then you still haven't realized why Ind hasn't won a WC since 1983 Anyways, enough is said already. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, esp. if it is for Ind's benefit :nice:

[b555]

rett , why dont u join ganguly in match analysis ?