What was so special about Ganguly the captain ?

[jf1gp_1]

Yes i know most of you are fed up discussing this but i am now sick of watching us play miserably. I have been a strong Dravid supporter ever since he became captain. Yes he took some bold decisions which misfired big time, he has also showen some weakness but more or less i supported his game plan, we as a team failed to execute them. But what i dont understand is how all of the promising players identified under ganguly are falling like skittles in a bowling alley under dravid ? Dont see Nehra, Balaji, Kaif make a return. Sehwag identified as next captain is almost gone, Bhaji and pathan our matchwinners r now winning games for opposition. Yuvraj is yet to make a place in test side and Zaheer if he continues bowling this way will be out soon. The day i saw Raina bat for the first time i felt maybe we now have someone to replace Sachin. I now laugh at myself for even thinking on those lines. So what did ganguly do right with the same bunch of players ?

[Predator_05]

He was a big brother type and treated them differently than Dravid did. Dravid is a model professional and expected his troops to be self-motivated. Ganguly was quite good with new players since he himself faced many obstacles en route to international cricket. An unsuccessful debut in Australia followed by the public writing him off as a quota selection for the '96 England tour, he had to battle the odds to get to where he did. Dravid came through quite comfortably and even though he was dropped from the ODI side in '97/98 it has been smooth sailing for him throughout his career. I think that was the difference. Ganguly could take stock of his bad experiences as a youngster and gave new players who performed for him a helping hand - ensuring that they wouldn't suffer like did - hence, at times he went as far as fighting for their selection. Dravid, who came though on his own, must have expected players to be good enough to make it on their own steam and came from the "you don't need motivation when you play for your country" school of thought. I think Ganguly's style of leadership was better suited for an Indian team, but he was never good enough as a player to survive as captain for long.

[theguyinallblue]

its not that Ganguly always won with the team he was leading... it all depends on the form of players....we have won 16 matches while chasing... we defeated pakistan 5-0...( rain interruption not withstanding)... what Ganguly had was an inform Dravid...for Tests..and injury free....care free...sachin...for ODIs... sehwag was on fire in tests... Ganguly was a captain..who was depending a lot on his soldiers to win him matches..his own performance was duck... and luckily for him...main players were in form... and when they were not..we received heavy defeats as well... we remember that we won in australia..but no one complains that we lost as well....in australia and in india... i still believe that Dravid is a better captain ..and he is the best candidate at present..... we are complaining about the close runs BD gave is in the ODIs... do we remember that we alomost lost 2 ODIs to Zimboks in VB series during 2004..in australia..under GANGULY... and Ganguly was never a leading from the front type leader like steve waugh or Dravid or Ponting or Fleming ... look at vaughan...his form has deserted him long ago....and he can not earn same respect and command over his team mates.. Ganguly had some aggression...and confidence...not because of his abilities..but because of Dravid..Sachin and Kumble...who were in form... we will do better if sachin and Ganguly sort their games..and we get some decent ..fir and inform attack.... we must have Fit Sreesanth..Fit Munaf..and inform Sehwag...inform sachin...to have Eng series in our favour...

[dial_100]

its not that Ganguly always won with the team he was leading... it all depends on the form of players....we have won 16 matches while chasing... we defeated pakistan 5-0...( rain interruption not withstanding)... what Ganguly had was an inform Dravid...for Tests..and injury free....care free...sachin...for ODIs... sehwag was on fire in tests... Ganguly was a captain..who was depending a lot on his soldiers to win him matches..his own performance was duck... and luckily for him...main players were in form... and when they were not..we received heavy defeats as well... we remember that we won in australia..but no one complains that we lost as well....in australia and in india... i still believe that Dravid is a better captain ..and he is the best candidate at present..... we are complaining about the close runs BD gave is in the ODIs... do we remember that we alomost lost 2 ODIs to Zimboks in VB series during 2004..in australia..under GANGULY... and Ganguly was never a leading from the front type leader like steve waugh or Dravid or Ponting or Fleming ... look at vaughan...his form has deserted him long ago....and he can not earn same respect and command over his team mates.. Ganguly had some aggression...and confidence...not because of his abilities..but because of Dravid..Sachin and Kumble...who were in form... we will do better if sachin and Ganguly sort their games..and we get some decent ..fir and inform attack.... we must have Fit Sreesanth..Fit Munaf..and inform Sehwag...inform sachin...to have Eng series in our favour...

How which freaking image from the following list I should pick to tell you that I whole heartedly agree with you....

[King]

I see captaincy and coach highly overrated in cricket. I've seen and experienced the captains make no more than say about 5% difference to the team. Look no beyond than the likes of Vaughan, Freddi, Jayawardene et al. They all have had their ups and downs already with the same team. In fact Freddi won the VB series with a far less capable team than they fielded during the world cup. Whether Ganguly or Rahul Dravid, this Indian team lacks self belief right from the top. I don't just mean the new players but the ones that have been playing since a decade or two. They have become very adept to losing and it is a habit. I quite like the bowlers in Sreesanth and Munaf, they seem to give their best shot. Munaf has cut down on the pace but still bowls good line and length. Guys like Zaheer, Jaffer, Dhoni, Yuvraj, Harbhajan and even Tendulkar have got used to losses for god knows how long. They simply can't be counted upon when the chips are down. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying they are not good. Someone like Tendulkar is a one off but he is not like say a Dravid or Anil Kumble that seem to pull out stuff of legends when chips are down. IMO Gambhir, Karthik, Sehwag, Rahul, Laxman, Anil, Sreesanth, Munaf and even Ganguly will win more games than the more talented ones. I really think this should be the core of the Indian team and the rest will compliment this bunch very well. You may think I'm crazy for having Ganguly in the scheme of things but that is how I see it. I cannot understand how Laxman can be dropped from test team :omg_smile: How many times hasn't he and Rahul bailed India out in the last few years. I cannot believe Laxman's still not a full timer in the test team. I care less about ODIs for now. If India can play these core players, they will win more test matches than they will lose. I think more than captaincy, coach it is the selection of the team that has a telling blow on the results of a test match.

[chanakya]

I just think the amount of meida attention which has been given to cricket has gone up phenomally over the last few yers. Public intrest in cricket died after the match fixing allegations. India's losses were not that well lets say analyzed during Ganguly's tenure.

[kumble_rocks]

I cannot understand how Laxman can be dropped from test team :omg_smile: How many times hasn't he and Rahul bailed India out in the last few years. I cannot believe Laxman's still not a full timer in the test team. .

To me it's obvious why he is not a full timer in the test team. He lacks corporate endorsements. Why do you think lesser players like Ganguly , Dhoni or Yuvraj get selected over him all the time. Also, even kumble lacks endorsements . But he is our ace in test cricket. So he doesn't get dropped unlike Laxman who can be inconsistent.But rest assured , if kumble's form wanes even little bit , he will get the axe , just like in ODIs. On a side note , I always wondered why proven players from South Zone other than Dravid do not have the backing from sponsors. Heck , even Mysore Soap Factory makers of Mysore Sandals signed up Dhoni for 70 lakhs worth of endorsement.

[CC1981]

On a side note , I always wondered why proven players from South Zone other than Dravid do not have the backing from sponsors.

I guess you are back to the 'touchie southie' mode again. As far as i am aware, for however many proven 'south zone' players there are (outside of the names that are regular for the Indian XI), Mumbai has twice the 'proven' players over the same period. Laxman gets the chop for a very simple reason - Laxman is terribly inconsistent and he hasnt done much in the past few years. Though i do not see any reason for dropping him, i think he will be the first casualty of the big four simply because he cannot touch Dravid/Tendulkar and Ganguly is far more likely to rediscover his touch than Laxman ( simply because Ganguly has ten times the resolve).

[Anakin]

There you go AGAIN.

[kumble_rocks]

I guess you are back to the 'touchie southie' mode again.

I guess you are back to the 'racist abusive' mode again. Mods and Ravi, take notice of the derogatory stereotyping of South Indians by this bengali CC who obviously hates South Indians. Time and again , he has accused entire south indians of being touchie and image conscious. In fact , he has already been warned by Dhondy about the usage of these words.This kind of bigotry and stereotyping should have no place in this message board. I won't stoop to his level out of respect for North Indian Posters here.

As far as i am aware, for however many proven 'south zone' players there are (outside of the names that are regular for the Indian XI), Mumbai has twice the 'proven' players over the same period.

Stop beating around the bush. Why didn't Laxman get endorsement after 2001 just like Harbhy after his spectacular performance. Heck , proven match winner like Kumble has no creditable endorsements whereas no names like Pathan or Sehwag have more endorsements than him. Even , India's fastest bowler , Srinath lacked corporate sponsorship. Other than Dravid , I cannot think of any player from South Zone who has corporate backing which players like Dhoni, Sehwag,Yuvi,Harbhy , Ganguly etc enjoy. If you care to read my posts , I am also pointing out south based firms like Mysore Soap Factory for failing to sign proven match winners from south zone.

Laxman gets the chop for a very simple reason - Laxman is terribly inconsistent and he hasnt done much in the past few years. Though i do not see any reason for dropping him, i think he will be the first casualty of the big four simply because he cannot touch Dravid/Tendulkar and Ganguly is far more likely to rediscover his touch than Laxman ( simply because Ganguly has ten times the resolve).

Bull talk re. I can sense your regional bias here.Laxman is much more consistent than ganguly and always has been considered better batsmen by anybody who has an iota of knowledge in cricket. As regards to resolve, Ganguly indeed showed great resolve in coming back , firstly by backstabbing his benefator Dalmiya and secondly by begging Pawar for mercy.

[yoda]

KR, learn to ignore him. Mods can only do so much. If the guy wants to act like a jerk time and again you can't really stop him. He is obviously making those comments repeatedly just to get under your skin. That is is MO. He is a hate monger, be it against south indians, indians in the US or pretty much anyone who is not him or disagrees with his POV.

[The Outsider]

CC, whats the point of harping that "touchie southie" comment over and over again? You are too good a poster to let your points get muddled and sidetracked by such irrelevant remarks which irk other posters.

[kumble_rocks]

KR' date=' learn to ignore him. Mods can only do so much. If the guy wants to act like a jerk time and again you can't really stop him. He is obviously making those comments repeatedly just to get under your skin. That is is MO. He is a hate monger, be it against south indians, indians in the US or pretty much anyone who is not him or disagrees with his POV.[/quote'] You are right. But , what surprises me is that some of the moderators here have not even warned him yet inspite of the filthy languages that he has used against some of the posters here.Even Ravi on more than one occasion has chided this guy for his abusive tirade. Even I have tried to pacify him on numerous occasions but to no avail. I don't take lightly to stereotyping of south indians. In fact my post was directed towards Ravi wherein I was just wondering why players from south zone do not get endorsements. But lo and behold , CC butted in with his usual two cents .

[kumble_rocks]

CC' date=' whats the point of harping that "touchie southie" comment over and over again? You are too good a poster to let your points get muddled and sidetracked by such irrelevant remarks which irk other posters.[/quote'] Thanks mate. I think he will heed to you or Dhondy.

[Mandrake]

In my opinion Ganguly was a much hyped captain....the thing that went in his favour was the peak form of seniors coincided with his captaincy run.Though he was successful to some extent in backing youngsters like Yuvi,Bhajji,Kaif...he owes his captaincy record to his team sply the seniors like Dravid,Sachin and Kumble who consistently featured in most of the memorable wins.Ganguly rarely led from the front and was not much of a strategist either.

[Rahul]

VVSL has been dropped for the likes of raina and kaif. some of the outstanding fighting knocks of recent vintage in Tests have been played by the wristy Hyderabadi. anyone who says he is inconsistent and deserved to be dropped is either misinformed or a hater. 50+ in ahmedabad, 167, 281, 65, 148, 167, 100+ in match saving Mohali test, 69, 60+ at wanderers and another fighting 50 in durban and plenty of others I do nor recall now. How many indian batsmen have SO MANY fighting and match-winning scores? very recently was a fantastic battle between the saffie pacers and VVSL. i dont think even tendy would have come through that stern examination, let alone a ganguly.

48.1 Nel to Laxman, no run, snorter. it climbs up at the left shoulder, Laxman hops up, tries to get on top of the bounce, but the ball pings him on the left shoulder. He is pain. Physio is out there Gloster brings out the magic spray for Laxman's left arm. Meanwhile Asad Rauf is closely examining the light meter. 48.2 Nel to Laxman, no run, Play resumes. Nel digs in another short one to Laxman, who ducks out of the way. Massive swelling on Laxman's arm, though. 48.3 Nel to Laxman, no run, Wide down the leg side, Laxman leaves it along 48.4 Nel to Laxman, no run, Take a wild guess? Short again. Laxman has nothing to do with it. Weaves out of the way this time. Nel continuing his bouncer barrage 48.5 Nel to Laxman, no run, Short again. As if there was a doubt. Defended off the back foot to midwicket. Laxman solidly behind it this time 48.6 Nel to Laxman, no run, Oh yes. Short again. Straighter as well. Laxman negotiates it cautiously again. Solid defensive technique on the back foot 49.5 Ntini to Laxman, no run, Back of a length and slightly wide, Laxman nudges it straight to point 49.6 Ntini to Laxman, no run, Short and straight this time. Laxman meets it close to his chest and drops it down nicely. Laxman's dealing confidently with the short ones after the knock to his arm. 50.5 Nel to Laxman, no run, Nel breathing fire now. Cracker of a bouncer again. Coming off the pitch like a grenade. Laxman gets out of the way in the last moment. 50.6 Nel to Laxman, no run, Short again. Superb hostility from Nel. Ducked again 51.2 Ntini to Laxman, 2 runs, Back of a length and cutting in. Laxman effortlessly flicks it to midwicket for a brace. Great contest developing here 51.3 Ntini to Laxman, no run, Quick and full this time. Laxman rocks back and offers the dead bat 51.4 Ntini to Laxman, no run, Wide of the crease from Ntini and angling in. Laxman gets behind the line and blocks confidently 51.5 Ntini to Laxman, no run, Yorker length. Surprise weapon. Laxman digs it out well. This is hostile bowling against a solid batsman. 51.6 Ntini to Laxman, 2 runs, Straight and what a response from Laxman. Whipped away majestically through midwicket. Not that well timed and he has to settle for a couple

nuff said.

[theguyinallblue]

indian selection is a joke now a days...there is no clear direction..they are just taking steps without much thinking.. we are still not clear whether we are making a team for the future or not? if we need a mix of youth and exp..them Ganguly should not have played .. there are 3 spots in middle order... 3rd - Dravid ( certain ) 4th - 5th - now for 4th ad 5th we have 4 players...sachin..Ganguly..VVS and Yuvraj. ( IF WE GO BY 5 BOWLER PLAN ) OBVIOUSLY VVS is younger than Ganguly and more skillful to handle test cricket... IMO Ganguly should have been rested or dropped from test cricket..his selfish game is hurting indian team more.... it is quite certain that VVS will play in england.....so there is no point not giving him chances to play test matches... and if we assume that indian management wanted to try few players...i did not see any new player.... i thought Ravi would bring some changes in the team...but he seems to be more clue less...

[kumble_rocks]

i thought Ravi would bring some changes in the team...but he seems to be more clue less...

I distinctly remember Shastri's quote about Laxman during the SA series where he was the commentator wherein he was saying that you don't mess around with proven match winners like laxman. So , I wonder why the Volte-face by Shastri now.

[CC1981]

Mods and Ravi, take notice of the derogatory stereotyping of South Indians by this bengali CC who obviously hates South Indians

Umm dude, i am talking about YOU, not entire Southies. You wanted to insinuate some sort of bias against the southies in selection, i just informed you that it is baseless. YOu are being the touchy southy by insinuating some sort of immaginary bias against Southies when it comes to selection.

Laxman is much more consistent than ganguly and always has been considered better batsmen by anybody who has an iota of knowledge in cricket.

Laxman is a prettier batsman than Ganguly. Not better. If overall batsmanship is measured, Gangoo is far ahead of Laxy. Laxman is slightly better in Tests but Gangoo is far far far better an ODI player. ANd yes, Gangoo has much stronger resolve and guts than any other of the big four- thats his signature move.

[kumble_rocks]

Umm dude, i am talking about YOU, not entire Southies. You wanted to insinuate some sort of bias against the southies in selection, i just informed you that it is baseless. YOu are being the touchy southy by insinuating some sort of immaginary bias against Southies when it comes to selection.

Apparently the Mods have agreed with me and that's why you got the warning . Yet you are still sticking with the word "touchy southy". Changing from plural to singular does not hide your bigotry and racism towards south indians. Don't you have any shame. Even the Site owner Ravi , who happens to be a Southy has already warned you on more than one occasions to cool down and have control over your anger.Why can't you debate in a friendly manner. I have lost count on the number of times , I have tried to pacify you and yet you want to abuse me. And you also resorted to gutter language nowadays. Words "Gandu", "Ghand Phati" , "Facking ass.hole" seems to flow from your vocabulary. Don't take this message board down the drain and don't bother to debate me till you learn how to debate in a civil manner.