Irreplaceble man/woman in Indian Cinema?

[Lurker]

Ever wondered how a great invention like motion-picture has changed the world forever? And ever stopped to wonder how two of the greatest movie-churning industries in the world are based in USA and India? Two countries as dissimilar as one could ever wish to see. And while the impact of Hollywood is quite unparalleled, Indian cinema has also left a huge impact, not only on Indians but also non-Indians. From a Palestine cabbie that drove me around in San Fransisco with Hindi movie CD playing all the time to Indian PM Manmohan Singh addressing Japanese Parliament and suggesting how Rajneekanth has made an impact in Tokyo. From the almost exclusive non-Indian crowd(mostly Pakistani/Iranian/Middle Eastern crowd) that descends in American theatres to watch Indian flick taking in the entire story by subtitles to the NRI who goes back to his country, his culture, his longings for the 3 hours he forgets everything and watches a movie. What is Indian cinema though? It is not one man show. We have the pristine beauty of a Satyajit Ray a Mrinal Sen, we have the touch and emotion of Adoor Gopalkrishnan. We have the acting of Dileep Kumar and Amitabh Bacchan, and even better acting by Kamal Hassan, Uttam Kumar and Mohanlal. We have the great music by Illayaraja and the golden voice of Lata Mangeshkar. Sometimes I just sit and wonder how greatly Indian cinema has been enriched by people who have been connected to it. And sometimes I also fear that in a few years we will start seeing the caravan of these stalwarts going away. Such is life, sad, melancholic yes but at the same time it gives us oppertunity to celebrate these people, without waiting to let them go away and then remember. So who do you think is the Irreplacable man of Indian cinema? Is it the lady with golden voice Lata Mangeshkar? Is it the original Tragedy King Dileep Kumar? Is it the Angry Young Man Amitabh Bacchan? Is it the perfect actor Kamal Hassan? Who do you think would be impossible to replace? Think and think hard. Its the least we can do for the maestros who have so enriched our life. Made us cry with them, made us forget our pains at times when nothing else seemed to do so. xxxx

[Cricketics]

good write up.. and tend to agree.. perhaps u could have also added, "Is it the great Harfunmaula Kishore Kumar?"

[Dhondy]

I am not a great fan of Hindi movies, so perhaps don't feel as strongly as Lurker does, but I enjoyed reading his post. Used to feel that way perhaps about Amitabh in my younger days, but now it's definitely faded. Strangely, when I watch old flicks of great Hollywood actors like Gregory Peck, or western tyros like Charles Bronson, or reruns of Audrey Hepburn films, I do feel nostalgic. A closet SKC, perhaps? Eh, Bheem?

[Lurker]

Thanks Cricketics. Yes Kishore Kumar was a multi-faceted personality. A great singer, superb natural comedian and a person who could write lyrics as well as give music to his movie, even though he was not formally trained to do so. What a talent! xxx

[Lurker]

Okay here is my pick. I strongly believe that the only person that I would miss once he is not there is Sampoorna Singh Gulzaar. This man,for the lack of better phrase, is the Ghalib/Mir of our times. The only thing is while Ghalib and Mir excelled in Urdu poetry/prose(also Persian), Gulzaar has done that as well as written excellently in Hindi, penned down stories and songs for kids, made movies that were pathbreakers and even today manages to stir people with his pen/thoughts even though it is almost 40 years(closer to 50) since he started. What Hindi music lovers can ever forget what Gulzar has written down? If you ever feel like going back to your childhood days just listen to Dil Dhoondta hai phir wohi fursat ke raat din (Dil dhoondta hai - Mausam) If you had a fight with your significant other and are in a quandry whether to take the first step of reconciliation or stroke your ego listen to Tumhein yeh jidd thi ke hum bulaate hamein yeh ummeed woh pukaarein. (Hazaar raahein mud ke dekhin - Thori si bewafai) Be it songs for childrens - Lakdi ki kaathi kaathi pe ghoda(Masoom)- to the musing of a train driver - Dhanno ki Aankhon mein raat ka surma aur chaand ka chumma(Kitaab), Gulzar has done it all. Be it writing in chaste Persian/Urdu - Jihaale muskin makun baranjis bahal-e-hijra bichaara dil hai(Ghulami) to rustic Hindi spoken in the cowbelt - Dhadhak dhadhak dhuan udaaye re(Bunty aur Bubbly) or Beedi jalaiyle jigar se piya jigar maan bari aag hai. It is mind boggling to see the sheer range of his capabilities. In my opinion no lyricist comes close to him, and I mean that with all due respect to Sahir saab, Shakil Badayuni, Shailendra, Kaifi, Majrooh and Yogesh. But impressive as his writing capabilities are those are not his only claim to fame. He has also been a peerless movie-maker that has given us films to treasure forever. If you think BLACK was an all-time classic check out Gulzar's KOSHISH *ing Sanjeev Kumar & Jaya Bhaduri. Parichay, Mausam, Khusboo, Aandhi, Kinaara, Kitaab, Namkeen, Ijaazat etc etc, it is sheer mindboggling to think that Gulzar was churning out some sane movies at a time where the box-office was all about dishoom dishoom. In the 90's his skills as a movie-maker went down a bit but he still managed a Lekin, a Maachis and a Hu-Tu-Tu. Ah the days of college and riding the bike with Gulzar's Chor aaye hum woh galiyaan blaring out via earphone. Today he has become more of a lyricist only and mentors young recruits like Vishal Bhardwaaj. Vishal seems to have been atleast in part inspired by Gulzar and his movies - Makree, Maqbool and Omkara are ample testament of that. I don't think we would find another Gulzar. The man who could write in any language possible seemingly, the man who could make movie for kids with kids, the man who could connect to you like noone ever did. To use one of his songs Ek saul solah chaand ki raatein ek hasti Gulzar ki (Mera kuch saaman - Ijazat) xxxx

[Gambit]

Beautiful post Lurker. Will post in greater detail later. You missed out Javed Akhtar.

[gator]

the greatest obviously is AB.... the man was bigger than the industry at one time.... i still get goosebumps when i watch deewar or Sholay... the best actors, to me, are couple of them.... Kamal Hassan and Naseeruddin Shah... the one who never completely fullfilled his potential was Anupam Kher...

[Gaurav]

On senti level I like watching Indian movies but I hate the Hollywood copycat ones! The other day I was watching Collateral (Tom cruise) and basically the whole movie was spoilt for me as unknowingly I had seen some Indian movie that was carbon copy of Collateral :embaressed_smile: We have so much original material in India but some of these directors are full of shit! I highly rate people like Satyajit Ray :thumbs_up:

[theguyinallblue]

some of the legends of indian cinema would be... Lata Mangeshkar, M Rafi, Kishore Kumar, R D Burman, A R Rahman, Illiayaraja Satyajit Ray, Raj Kapoor ( i don't really know many directors ) AB, Dilip Kumar, Dev Anand, Sunil DUtt, Nargis, Madhuri, Shahrukh, Aamir, Pran, Helen, Kamal hassan, Rajni kant, shivaji ganeshan, comedy actors...???? except Mahmood...??? these are few among the many ..who have changed the indian cinema with their talents..

[Dhondy]

That Hazaar Rahen Mudke Dekhe song from Thodi Si Bewafaai is beautiful, Lurks, as is the Dil Dhoondta Hai number sung in Bhupendra's slightly nasal tones. No wonder Gulzaar married a babe like Raakhi.

[Lurker]

Beautiful post Lurker. Will post in greater detail later. You missed out Javed Akhtar.

Javed Akhtar is another genius of Indian cinema.:thumbs_up: When I think of Javed Akhtar the first words that come to mind are Kabhi tujhko gila mujhse kabhi mujhko shikhayat hai magar phir bhi tujhe meri, mujhe teri jaroorat hai (Liye sapne nigahon mein - Mashaal) Javed Akhtar is the son of Jaanishar Akhtar, doyen of Urdu literature(he wrote the lyrics of songs of Razia Sultan) and son-in-law of Kaifi Azami. Javed Akhtar and Gulzar are perhaps the last guards of Indian culture the way we know it. It is changing really fast and dont be surprised if 10 years down the line you wake up and wonder how things changed so fast. The difference between Akhtar saab and Gulzaar saab is that the former is essentially a writer while the latter is a poet. Javed Akhtar is more comfortable in writing screenplays, stories etc and so even though he has the brilliance of writing "Aah mein tujhse door sahi aur tu mujhse anjaan sahi tera saath nahin paaoon to khair tera armaan sahi" (Chehra hai ya chaand khila hai - Saagar) While he can write such a gem he can also dish out a great hit but pithy song like - "Ek do teen - Tezaab". Gulzar on the other hand is more comfortable with poetry and remains a romantic at heart, one reason why his movies have never been violent or very hard-hitting a la his protege Vishaal's Omkara(though Maachis does come very close). Without sounding pessimistic I must say I am not too encouraged by Hindi cinema after these two gents are gone. Prasun Joshi is one good writing talent, lets see. xxxx

[CC1981]

Ashok Kumar and Prithvi Raaj Kapoor. Without those two,there would be no bollywood!

[Cricketics]

o yaa Javed akthar.. and offcourse as mentioned by cc, RK banner...

[Rajiv]

Lurker, we have similar taste in Music Those lyrics are diamond, wonder what inspires a person to write such lines It's funny when we get emotional, these songs are your best friends and run along with your problems Some of his other gems http://www.gulzaronline.com E Zindagi gale laga le - Sadma Aane wala pal jaane wala hai - Golmaal Yara sili sili virah ki raat ka jalna-Lata - Lekin Too mere paas bhi hai - Satya P.S - His daughter Meghna was college time acquaintance Irreplaceable 1) Kishore - Once in a lifetime talent 2) Dev Anand - Unique Style and look, terrific acting and at 80; he still likes to work 3) Raj Kapoor - The Pathan, the gem of Kapoor family - his work in Awaara, Sangam and Mera Naam Joker is simply superb 4) Mehmood - Master Comedian who could do any type of role 5) Helen - The cabaret queen of the 70s, whenever we expected a dance scene - we knew it's gonna be that flashy dress, that lovely smile and Helens magic 6) Lata - Nightingale of India; Guinness Book Record Holder - ( She originally started the " Kashmir lelo, Lata Dedo ) 7) Rajesh Khanna - I was told by the oldies that ladies used to wait outside the barbershop where he got his haircut ( yea, to collect his hair ) His dramatic scenes were a treat to watch 8) Amitbah Bachan - I mean the guy revolutionized your long legged-bell bottom personality, his combo with Prakah Mehra took him to the top of the charts, in my opinion his closest competition was Vinod Khanna who was entangled in Osho's way of life and lost it Amitabh also had ego clashes with Shatrughan Sinha, meri mercedes tere se badi hain 9) Pran - Pran has done 241 Movies, movies of the 60s were incomplete without him; it seemed as if he was an automatic entry in those movies 10) Amjad Khan - The Chubby Villian, Gabbar Singh will be never die! Hrishikesh Mukherjee - my best director vote goes to him

[Dirty_South]

How can u guys forget Mohd.Rafi ? :dontknow:

[Lurker]

Lurker, we have similar taste in Music Those lyrics are diamond, wonder what inspires a person to write such lines It's funny when we get emotional, these songs are your best friends and run along with your problems Some of his other gems http://www.gulzaronline.com E Zindagi gale laga le - Sadma Aane wala pal jaane wala hai - Golmaal Yara sili sili virah ki raat ka jalna-Lata - Lekin Too mere paas bhi hai - Satya P.S - His daughter Meghna was college time acquaintance Irreplaceable 1) Kishore - Once in a lifetime talent 2) Dev Anand - Unique Style and look, terrific acting and at 80; he still likes to work 3) Raj Kapoor - The Pathan, the gem of Kapoor family - his work in Awaara, Sangam and Mera Naam Joker is simply superb 4) Mehmood - Master Comedian who could do any type of role 5) Helen - The cabaret queen of the 70s, whenever we expected a dance scene - we knew it's gonna be that flashy dress, that lovely smile and Helens magic 6) Lata - Nightingale of India; Guinness Book Record Holder - ( She originally started the " Kashmir lelo, Lata Dedo ) 7) Rajesh Khanna - I was told by the oldies that ladies used to wait outside the barbershop where he got his haircut ( yea, to collect his hair ) His dramatic scenes were a treat to watch 8) Amitbah Bachan - I mean the guy revolutionized your long legged-bell bottom personality, his combo with Prakah Mehra took him to the top of the charts, in my opinion his closest competition was Vinod Khanna who was entangled in Osho's way of life and lost it Amitabh also had ego clashes with Shatrughan Sinha, meri mercedes tere se badi hain 9) Pran - Pran has done 241 Movies, movies of the 60s were incomplete without him; it seemed as if he was an automatic entry in those movies 10) Amjad Khan - The Chubby Villian, Gabbar Singh will be never die! Hrishikesh Mukherjee - my best director vote goes to him

All great names there Rajeev. :thumbs_up: One interesting pick is Helen. She was picked by GIB as well. And yes Helen has been quite irreplaceable. It is fascinating to think that even in the biggest banner movies with biggest stars(which movie would be bigger than Sholay?), there would be a place for Helen. Equally fascinating it is to see that in spite of item songs in every other movie today, with all sorts of explicit dancing no dancer has remotely come close to her. Hrishikesh Mukherjee in his usual subtle style paid her the ultimate tribute. Remember the classic Golmaal *ing Amol Palekar? In the movie there is a scene where Amol Palekar goes to change his clothes in the restroom of a theatre where he is met by a fat elderly gent. Amol manages to get inside the restroom ahead of the gents while the latter is forced to wait and talk to Amol's friend. The conversation goes somewhat like this: Friend - Uski jaroorat aapse jyaada thi. His need was greater than yours. Gentleman - Kya kah rahein hain sahab?? Helen ne dance shuru kar diya. Mujhse phir bhi reha nahin gaya aur aap kahte hain ke unki jaroorat mujhse jyaada thi? :haha::haha: (I beleive the song that played in background was Mungda Mungda main gud ki dali, mangta hai to aaja rasiya nahin to main yeh chali) By the way I greatly respect Hrishikesh Mukherjee's work. Isn't it fascinating that for all the mullahs made by Karan Johars, Barjatyas and Chopras there is a greater chance of finding a VCD/DVD of Chupke Chupke/ Golmaal than Kal ho Na ho/ Kaho na Pyaar hai, in an Indian household? xxxx

[Zap_Brannigan]

Not to put a dampener on things but indian cinema is not known for quality around the world. Chinese,Japanese,British,french and even korean movies are more well known around the world than Indian movies. All we do is churn out 1000 movies a year and have a huge following mainly cos its the most entertaining industry that a lot of countries can relate to(sri lanka,middle east, malaysia, singapore etc) but apart from that its technically shoddy. When we make more than 5 movies per year with a very refreshing and tight script, we can start comparing bollywood to the other asian industries. Till then please dont big it up.

[The Outsider]

Some excellent posts there, Lurker. Irreplacable? The way I would view it would be is someone who was among the best in his field, started a new trend/genre which was highly successful down the years, and the counterpart of whom you would not find in any other film industry ie. something unique to Bollywood. In that respect I would say it narrows down the field for Bollywood to music ie. singers, lyricists, and composition because that is where Bollywood's uniqueness comes from. Singers : Lata Mangeshkar, Asha Bhonsle, Kishore Kumar, and Mohd. Rafi have been the most influential ones. There have been Hemant Kumar, Manna Dey etc. who at their best and in certain genres were better than the 4 mentioned above but their influence on Bollywood always was in a niche and wont fall under the irreplacable bracket. Lata Mangeshkar was a singer par excellence but falls short on versatility compared to Asha Bhonsle. Both inspired many clones as did Kishore and Rafi. Again, Rafi outscores Kishore as far as versatility is concerned. His rendition of classical music and qawallis is an area more or less unexplored by Kishore. In that respect, the competition boils down to Rafi and Asha and I would pick Rafi for the amazing popularity he enjoyed at his peak. Music Directors : SD Burman, RD Burman, Shankar Jaikishan, Laxmikant Pyarelal, and OP Nayyar were among the most popular ones. One can immediately rule out Laxmikant Pyarelal for their tunes while catchy were completely lacking in quality. OP Nayyar lacked versatility. Shankar Jaikishan and SD Burman were hugely successful contemporaries and produced some wonderful music. I would choose SD Burman and RD Burman as the final two to decide upon because both used classical music heavily in their songs and still managed to impart them with a popular finish, though admittedly a lot of RD Burman's initial work like Amar Prem was heavily influenced by his father. RD Burman brought about a lot of innovativeness to Indian music with albums like Masoom and Ijaazat where the arrangement and instruments were very unlike what had been used before in India. So in addition to using his dad's forte of classical and folk, in the latter years he combined it with western music very well. RD Burman for me Lyricist : Gulzar, Majrooh, Sahir, Anand Bakshi, Javed Akhtar have been amongst the most popular ones. Anand Bakshi was too shallow at times, Javed Akhtar too repetitive. Its an extremely tough choice between the remaining three because all of them wrote very popular poetry with a lot of artistic thinking but it would come down to a choice between Gulzar and Majrooh because some of Sahir's poetry was in very difficult verses. As an irreplacable, Gulzar would pip Majrooh due to the sheer simplicity of his verses to describe the most complex situations. Down to Gulzar, Rafi, and RD Burman. I dont know how to make a choice amongst them. Take out any one of them and you will leave a gaping hole in Bollywood. Guess I'll have to draw straws on this one and go for Gulzar because there is very mediocre stuff from him while the other two had some distinctly mediocre albums and songs.

[Lurker]

Nice post there Shwetabh. It is interesting to note that while Lata Mangeshkar is unrivalled in her popularity you have decided to go with Asha Bhonsle. And yes when it comes to sheer range it is hard to look beyond Asha. One music director that doesnt get too much credit is Khayyam. He has given music in very few films but his music has always been top-class and I am quite confident in thinking that his brand of music was churned out just by him, no one else can do what he did, specially his brand of ghazal based music. Dikhaiye diye yun ke bekhud kiya, hamein aap hi se juda kar chale (Bazaar) Aie Dil-e-nadaan, aarzoo kya hai justzoo kya hai(Razia Sultan) Dil cheez kya hai aap meri jaan lijiye(Umrao Jaan) or soft lilting numbers like Yeh mulaqat eik bahan hai, pyaar ka silsila poorana hai(Khandaan) Aaja re o mere dilbar Aaja (Noorie) Simti huyi ghadiyaan(Chambal Ki Kasam). What I find fascinating about Khayyam is that he has been giving music since 1950!!! Yes he has been around for 50 years and has worked in less that the number of films. Shows the class of the man. Some of his earliest songs you might be aware of is: Jeet hi lenge baazi hum tum, khel yeh adhoora choote na Chin-o-Arab hamara, rahne ko ghar nahin saara jehan hamara. Superb musician. Another such kind is Salil Chaudhary. Madan Mohan was superb in his own way. Damn we Indian fans have been exceedingly lucky in having such greats. xxxxx

[The Outsider]

^ No doubt about it, Khayyam was an excellent music director. Love his music. Roshan (father of Rakesh and Rajesh) was another superb music director. Barsaat Ki Raat is an absolute classic from him with the Qawaali Ishq Ishq Hai Ishq Ishq which was to become a trendsetter as far as Qawaalis are concerned. Funny, that you used his verses from Ijaazat in your post. There is a funny anecdote about it. When Gulzar wrote Mera Kuch Samaan he went to RD Burman with the lyrics who was apparently pi$$ed at him saying, "What next? Are you going to ask me to compose on a Times of India Headline?" All three(RD, Gulzar, and Asha) did a superb job on the album but only Gulzar and Asha Bhonsle got the national award. I have Kinaara's OST LP which has Gulzar's commentary before every song (dont think the cassette or CD has it). Before Jaane Kya Soch Kar Nahin Guzra, he says :

Zindagi kabhi palon mein guzar jaati hai, kabhi ek pal zindagi bhar nahin guzarta. Indra ki zindagi mein bhi aisa hi ek pal thahar gaya tha jise woh Aarti ke naam se pehchan sakta tha. Raat guzar rahi thi lekin woh ek pal saari raat par bhaari tha. Jaane kya soch kar nahin guzra, ek pal raat bhar nahin guzra...........

For me it epitomizes his creativity of expressing deeply complex emotions and situations in simple words.