Fine captain, technically sound batsman....and a liar??

[Lurker]

Michael Vaughan has landed himself in hot soup after he suggested Feddie Flintoff could have been largely responsible for creating a situation that ensured England had a lousy World Cup. We arrived at the World Cup in a positive frame of mind," Vaughan told The Guardian. "But unfortunately incidents happened which affected the team. You have to be honest, the 'Fredalo' incident did affect the team. It did affect morale. Suddenly you've got players who have no freedom left. I like to see players enjoy themselves but no one would dare go out after that incident - and you can't create any spirit then." (** Fredalo incident reffering to Freddie's drunken binge at Pedalo during World Cup) As soon as criticism started pouring in, Vaughan suggested he had been "misqouted". Guardian put the actual interview online and now the egg's on Vaughan's face. http://download.guardian.co.uk/sys-audio/Sport/audio/2007/06/06/060607mcrae.mp3 Wonder how this would affect England team when India makes the tour this summer. :joyman: xxx

[Donny]

Michael Vaughan, a technically sound batsman?? Is this the same Michael Vaughan who loses hit off stump so much? Is this the same Michael Vaughan who has never scored a One Day International century?

[Lurker]

Michael Vaughan, a technically sound batsman?? Is this the same Michael Vaughan who loses hit off stump so much? Is this the same Michael Vaughan who has never scored a One Day International century?

Hmmm talk of missing forest for the trees. Anyway since you asked, yes this is the same Michael Vaughan that averages a century every 4 tests(not too different from SRT's 1 century every 3.7 Tests). This is the same Vaughan that averages a very healthy 63 plus in Australia at a time when Australia fielded teams that are widely ranked amongst the top 2-3 of all times. As for your comments about losing off-stump how is that different from Sachin Tendulkar who is widely known to have problems at fast incoming deliveries at the start of his innings? Every batsman has his share of technical weaknesses if you havent figured that out yet. As for his LOI record since when did One Day International became the judgement call for technical finess?? xxx

[King Tendulkar]

How dare you even compare him to the great Tendulkar! The guy averages a 43 to Sachins masterful 55. Also King Sachin has loads more runs and tons. Its like comparing Harmisson to Curtly Ambrose!

[talksport]

Isnt Harmison the White Ambrose

[Cricketics]

michael vaughan's supporters would forver want him to play for england just because he was the ashes winning captain in 05 season.. anywayz, thing is uttering crap from a captain's mouth in front of media is not expected, and when u do so, then u cross ur limits.. they didnt perform well in wc thatz it.. why bring flintoff in and boil another curry..

[Cricketics]

Isnt Harmison the White Ambrose

no hez a uniqu pig, who doesn't have control on widez..

[Lurker]

How dare you even compare him to the great Tendulkar! The guy averages a 43 to Sachins masterful 55. Also King Sachin has loads more runs and tons.

Slow down ace. The comparison should be looked at in the context. I did not mention averages did I? I have clearly mentioned how the number of 100's are not too different for the two as also their problems facing incoming deliveries. Do you disagree with those? xxx

[Lurker]

anywayz, thing is uttering crap from a captain's mouth in front of media is not expected, and when u do so, then u cross ur limits.. they didnt perform well in wc thatz it.. why bring flintoff in and boil another curry..

I found Vaughan's criticism strange really. In a way it was a honest statement to make but it is ridiculous to make 1 player the scapegoat when you have 10 others in the team. And to candidly admit that in an interview makes the mess for everyone. xx

[Cricketics]

exactly thats what i am trying to tell.... picking up flintoff and making him ginnipig won't reallly help.. first he should se himself.. did he play any captain's knock other then against minows consistently? did he lead eng from front in world cup?? i think vaughan is frustrated of media asking him about poor wc performance regularly.. or either he's scared that freddie might replace him as odi captain soon if not now..

[Donny]

"As for your comments about losing off-stump how is that different from Sachin Tendulkar who is widely known to have problems at fast incoming deliveries at the start of his innings?" It isn't. It's called being technically unsound. "This is the same Vaughan that averages a very healthy 63 plus in Australia" Wrong again. The Michael Vaughan of recent years is nothing like the one you say averages 63 plus in Australia. The fact is he averaged 63 plus in a 5 Test series, 5 years ago. He played 10 innings, 7 where he failed to score 50. Overall, he has a poor Test record for a batsman who's notched 16 centuries. He averages just 43.5 Why? Technically unsound.

[Lurker]

exactly thats what i am trying to tell.... picking up flintoff and making him ginnipig won't reallly help.. first he should se himself.. did he play any captain's knock other then against minows consistently? did he lead eng from front in world cup?? i think vaughan is frustrated of media asking him about poor wc performance regularly.. or either he's scared that freddie might replace him as odi captain soon if not now..

Could very well be. The thing is Vaughan does not belong in England's LOI team. The only reason he gets in there is because of his leadership acumen, a la Mike Brearely. And when the team loses convincingly his leadership is also questioned. I am with the experts like Thorpe and others who want Pietersen to lead. The chap has been around for a couple of years now, have played well at home and overseas and is the only player with 50 plus average in both format(Hussey might be another one if I am not mistaken). Vaughan should just quit the LOI and concentrate on Tests. xxx

[Cricketics]

I am with the experts like Thorpe and others who want Pietersen to lead. The chap has been around for a couple of years now, have played well at home and overseas and is the only player with 50 plus average in both format(Hussey might be another one if I am not mistaken). Vaughan should just quit the LOI and concentrate on Tests.

well trying pieterson as a captain is no prb.. ppl might think that pieterson should conentrate more on batting rather then doing captaincy.. well that all depends on the KP if he can give his 100% in both.. though i feel before kp, strauss or freddie might get chance again to captain Eng.. or may be vaughan might continue for another year..

[King Tendulkar]

Slow down ace. The comparison should be looked at in the context. I did not mention averages did I? I have clearly mentioned how the number of 100's are not too different for the two as also their problems facing incoming deliveries. Do you disagree with those? xxx

Yes I very much disagree. Sachin does not have such a weakness as otherwise he would not average 55 in tests with 37 TONS!

[yoda]

Sachin and Vaughan comparison. :cantstop:

[Gambit]

If there ever was a batsman that owned a certain type of dismissal, it would be Vaughan for getting bowled with amazing regularity.

[varun]

If there ever was a batsman that owned a certain type of dismissal' date=' it would be Vaughan for getting bowled with amazing regularity.[/quote'] You forgot the face !!! :whatchutalkingabout

[Predator_05]

Michael Vaughan, a technically sound batsman?? Is this the same Michael Vaughan who loses hit off stump so much? Is this the same Michael Vaughan who has never scored a One Day International century?

He plays a nice cover drive though...:haha:

[Predator_05]

Overall, he has a poor Test record for a batsman who's notched 16 centuries. He averages just 43.5 Why? Technically unsound.

I'd say that average (which isn't bad, BTW) is due to the toll that captaincy and injuries took on him. Nothing to do with his technique as a batsman; which is fine. No one questioned his technique when he was scoring for fun prior to taking over the captaincy. There are far worse batsmen out there.

[Donny]

He plays a nice cover drive though...:haha:

That just about sums up the irrationality around MV. The laughter is well placed, Pred. :wink_smile: It's akin to the well worn but equally misplaced, "But he's quick!" trotted out by Pommy fans about their other dud, Steve Harmison, as he's selected, time after time, in the vague hope he may actually take wickets in his opening spells. Apologies for drifting off topic. MV's reported comments certainly didn't look good and were roundly criticised, especially by Jim Cumbes, the Lancashire (FF's County) chief executive, who described them as "despicable". MV then said he was misquoted and did not use the term 'fredalo' but The Guardian then produced an audio tape of the interview, showing he did - twice. One of the responsibilities of being a captain is to 'take the heat' when things go wrong. Although MV did admit he didn't captain well in the World Cup, he also gave excuses, naming the 'fredalo' incident. Re. his position in the ODI team. It's almost farcical that he is still being selected. It's difficult to think of another top order batsman and captain who's failed as much and as long as MV has. When other captains come to mind - Ponting, Smith, Lara, Dravid/Tendulkar/Ganguly, Inzi, Jayasuriya/Jayawardene, Fleming etc. - you think of centuries, often match winning efforts. MV has not scored one in 83 innings. He averages 27.15 I also think he's vastly over rated as a tactical captain. When the heat was on, in the 2005 Ashes series, he turned to Flintoff or ran off the field to talk to Fletcher. It's not difficult to look like a good captain when your team is destroying weak oppositions like the Windies. It's when the pressure is applied that I rate a captain. In these situations, as a leader and a batsman, he is found wanting. Nobody knows how KP would go as captain of the ODI team. He could be a raging success or abject failure. Being a good/great player doesn't necessarily translate to being a successful leader. Ian Botham, Brian Lara and to a lesser extent, Sachin Tendulkar are examples.