Why do we always struggle to get the tail enders out ?

[NareshK]

This is not just a reaction to what happened in the third test against West Indies but I've been watching Indian cricket for a while and the bowlers always struggle to get the tail enders out. They seem to do well till the 6th or 7th wickets fall and then they either get careless or they get frustrated easily but the tail always seems to last longer than they are supposed to against India than other teams. Recently, there was of course the 3rd test against West Indies and previously, the last test against South Africa when SA were 130/6 but India again failed to finish the tail and couldnt win the match and series. Before that against Sri Lanka in Sri Lanka, I remember India getting them down to 8 wickets very cheaply but the SL tail stretched the target quite a bit. But India eventually won the game. Another game that comes to mind is the famous test in Barbados where India had to chase 120 and got bowled for 81. Again the WI tail put on some 40 runs at the end and stretched the lead without which India could have won that game. There are just so many matches where India lost the advantage because they couldnt finish the tail. So why do you think Indian bowlers have this inherent weakness ? Mind you, this is not just the case with this team alone. Previous Indian teams suffered from this same problem. Maybe a lack of ability to bowl express pace or short pitch or yorkers which always gets the tail enders to play bad shots ? I saw Ishant getting Bishoo, Edwards, Rampaul out very cheaply with the short ball on one or two occasions. Or is it a mental problem ?

[Trichromatic]

Not a mental problem, but we lack firepower to thrash the tail. Tail-enders are better batsman these days. Unlike earlier eras, tail-enders focus on the batting also. Now they work on it, get advices from the coaches and batsman. They are told to at least play a proper defensive shot and leave anything outside their range. Their limitation is that they will play any normal wicket to wicket delivery and don't get bothered about others. Generally we find it difficult to dismiss tail-enders when pitch isn't helping much. In this case, both fast bowlers and spinners have to rely on variations as tail-enders won't be trying too many things. You can't force them to drive or play a cut shot or pull the ball. Generally for a fast bowler, easiest ploy is to bowl them couple of good bouncers to push them on backfoot and then bowl a full yorkish delivery or slower one. But our bowlers are mostly ineffective in terms of bouncers and yorkers. Bouncers at 120 kph hardly worry the batsman. I remember that when Zaheer Khan started his career, he used to bowl yorkers very well. This doesn't happen now. Bowlers aren't fast enough to beat them by the pace only. For spinners, our main bowler Harbhajan is not using his doosra. He bowls either regular off-spinner or straighter deliveries. Unless these bowl turn or bounce, it's difficult to set the batsman up for making mistake. Earlier when tail-enders used to counter his regular offies, he used to get them with doosra. This is not the case now. Like I said, variation is important to dismiss those who aren't good batsman and won't try many things. If you're predictable they can just do what they have been told by coaches about how to play.

[J P K]

getting tailenders is in bowler`s hand not able to get tailenders tell us how bad our bowlers are it is too much too except captain to know the weakness of tail enders as well

[Trichromatic]

it is too much too except captain to know the weakness of tail enders as well

Yeah, that's also an issue. Captains can't plan for the tail-enders. No one knows what to expect from them. Only bowlers can set them up for getting out.

[Cricket Tragic]

Yeah' date=' that's also an issue. Captains can't plan for the tail-enders. No one knows what to expect from them. Only bowlers can set them up for getting out.[/quote'] Duncan Fletcher plans for the tailenders. In the Ashes, he had a detailed plan about McGrath's strengths, weaknesses, scoring areas and plans to get him out. :cantstop:

[mukul002]

Once India get to the tail the bowlers tend to relax too much rather than to maintain pressure . I have been there my self when getting wickets quickly and then expecting to just put the ball in the spot and let the tail endeders get themselvs out . This ploy does not work ! The Indian bowlers have to focus on the job at hand and maintain the same pressure they would to a top or middle order batsman

[punjabi_khota]

Its not just India. Plz see England's tour of SA 2009 (or 10 ?) for reference. Kthx. ****ers saved 2 games on like couple of wickets

[Blue Panther]

because our bowlers dont bowl like they bowl to batsmen, they think its easy to get tailender's wickets and try too many things which fails often. i have experienced it in my university matches.

[Cricketics]

Man is always the case. Remember Australia's recent tour to India? We were about to lose the first test but Harbhajan and Zaheer came to the rescue and saved the game. It's hard to get the whole team out. That's why they say "20 wickets" for a reason. 20 wickets you take and you are a great test team. Not easy to win a test match like that. It's not twenty20 or ODI where team gets bowled out in less than 50 overs. It's "TEST Cricket" You keep fighitng to get those 20 wickets..

[Trichromatic]

Man is always the case. Remember Australia's recent tour to India? We were about to lose the first test but Harbhajan and Zaheer came to the rescue and saved the game. It's hard to get the whole team out. That's why they say "20 wickets" for a reason. 20 wickets you take and you are a great test team. Not easy to win a test match like that. It's not twenty20 or ODI where team gets bowled out in less than 50 overs. It's "TEST Cricket" You keep fighitng to get those 20 wickets..

But for India, they never looked like going for the kill when tail is exposed. Other teams had mixed experience.

[Cricket Tragic]

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?batting_positionmin1=8;batting_positionval1=batting_position;class=1;filter=advanced;groupby=opposition;orderby=batting_average;spanmax1=12+Jul+2011;spanmin1=12+Jul+2006;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting

[NareshK]

^^Those stats are misleading simply because there could be another set batsman at the other end scoring all the runs while a tail ender simply could be holding fort. Another thing about Indian bowling is once they get into the tail, if there is an established batsman at one end, they dont try and take his wicket. They simply give him the single and get him off strike and attack the tail ender. The batsman has singles for the taking and he will slowly get a 50 or 100 without being challenged. There was even an article in Cricinfo about this if I remember correctly.

[Cricket Tragic]

^^Those stats are misleading simply because there could be another set batsman at the other end scoring all the runs while a tail ender simply could be holding fort. Another thing about Indian bowling is once they get into the tail, if there is an established batsman at one end, they dont try and take his wicket. They simply give him the single and get him off strike and attack the tail ender.The batsman has singles for the taking and he will slowly get a 50 or 100 without being challenged. There was even an article in Cricinfo about this if I remember correctly.

8-11 Edit: That is not an Indian thing but a modern thing. Every captain does that and there is nothing that I hate more in the game. It sometimes gets so frustrating that I switch off the television.

[Trichromatic]

^^Those stats are misleading simply because there could be another set batsman at the other end scoring all the runs while a tail ender simply could be holding fort.

Yeah, tail-enders have lower average against Bangladesh which means they got less chance and not that Bangladesh are better removing tail-enders. Another thing is that you can bowl normally to the tail-enders and if there is just 1 instance in each series where tail hangs in 4th innings, then avg won't be affected but the team will not be able to win that test because of the tail. Another point that you already mentioned is that with India generally there is one specialist batsman holding them together while they themselves don't score much. This is what happened in last test against SA and WI.

There was even an article in Cricinfo about this if I remember correctly.

This article : The batting talent of tailenders

[zen]

It could be because teams take it easy with bowlers thinking that wkts will fall on its own, no plan developed for tailenders (focus on key batsmen), lack of killer instinct, etc If you have the other team 5 down for nothing, you have to be more aggressive, look to clean things up quickly and deliver the KO punch

[maniac]

My theory on this is,Generally Tailenders tend to play spin without fear or proper technique and I have seen this in the past with our team ,where our spinners used to streamroll through the middle order and then a tailend batsman would score handy runs by just slogging against them without fear. To completely demolish the tail you need genuinely quick bowlers,this is where Wasim-Waqar,Ambrose-Walsh,Donald were so succesful. In the 70's and 80's pace bowlers used to run through the tail by bowling short to the tailender and trying to hurt them or induce fear in their mind where as spin was always our major weapon and even during this time tailenders were always a nuisance for us. We always had one lone [fast bowling star at a time and even they were not genuinely fast or ven if they were in the midst of a great spell it would always be a let down from the other end. In the 90's the only time I saw our side demolish the tail was in the 4th innings when Kumble was literally unplayable for top order batsmen leave alone tailenders.

[Crookbond]

Unfortunately, I don't think there's a general answer to his question.

[NareshK]

Oops, they did it again.

[darkknight]

Not a mental problem, but we lack firepower to thrash the tail. Tail-enders are better batsman these days. Unlike earlier eras, tail-enders focus on the batting also. Now they work on it, get advices from the coaches and batsman. They are told to at least play a proper defensive shot and leave anything outside their range. Their limitation is that they will play any normal wicket to wicket delivery and don't get bothered about others. Generally we find it difficult to dismiss tail-enders when pitch isn't helping much. In this case, both fast bowlers and spinners have to rely on variations as tail-enders won't be trying too many things. You can't force them to drive or play a cut shot or pull the ball. Generally for a fast bowler, easiest ploy is to bowl them couple of good bouncers to push them on backfoot and then bowl a full yorkish delivery or slower one. But our bowlers are mostly ineffective in terms of bouncers and yorkers. Bouncers at 120 kph hardly worry the batsman. I remember that when Zaheer Khan started his career, he used to bowl yorkers very well. This doesn't happen now. Bowlers aren't fast enough to beat them by the pace only. For spinners, our main bowler Harbhajan is not using his doosra. He bowls either regular off-spinner or straighter deliveries. Unless these bowl turn or bounce, it's difficult to set the batsman up for making mistake. Earlier when tail-enders used to counter his regular offies, he used to get them with doosra. This is not the case now. Like I said, variation is important to dismiss those who aren't good batsman and won't try many things. If you're predictable they can just do what they have been told by coaches about how to play.

Why has Bajji stopped using Doosra, any problems with umpire?

[ravsdh]

he barely gets the doosra to move away from righties these days