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Edgbaston test : Day by day prediction and discussion

Edgbaston test : Day by day prediction and discussion  

  1. 1.

    • Praveen Kumar
      2
    • Ishanth Sharma
      8
    • Sreesanth
      5
    • R.P Singh
      7


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Today was probably the best thing that happened to Indian cricket in the last 18months Yes, I know it sounds wrong, and harsh, but it's true. Outplayed. Completely. England looked like a champion WI side of the 80s, trouncing over India, who looked like mere minnows. Why? 1. Lack of Hunger 2. No Zaheer 3. No Sehwag The Zaheer factor is huge, and Michael Holding just brought it up on NDTV. He said that he reckoned India could have won the first test if Zaheer was around when England were 55/5. You could say the same in this test. 120/8 would not have turned into 220/8 with Zaheer. What about Sehwag? Yes he is also a big factor. In all likelihood, he probably would have failed in a couple of innings, but that one innings in which he scores over 20 is enough to put bowlers off their line. Sehwag slashes at anything fractionally wide, and works off his pads on anything straight with ease. After putting the bowlers off their lines, he takes a cheeky single, and lo and behold, you have a lefthander - Gambhir, who requires further changes in line. This is all very disruptive to the opposition, and India often gain the advantage. But the crucial question is... with Zak and Sehwag would we be 2-0 up? No. We lack that hunger. And we haven't felt hungry in a long time, not since we became number 1, let alone the World Cup. Mentally, I truly feel our players are some of the toughest out there (exception Bhaji - but I will come to this) . This hunger should not be hard to develop, given us (the fans) and the media's criticism that is going to follow in the next few days. Now that someone is at our throne, trying to grab us off the 1st place, I think it is time for the King to firstly accept the results, then eat the humble pie, and then show England how King's come back. We did it in South Africa. We've done it against the great Australian side many times before (with dare I say, an even worse attack than what we have now), and we did it in the WC after the SA loss. Are there any positives to be taken? Yes. 1. The ageing giant Dravid is back, and back with a bang. He is literally worth 3 batsmen when he's in form. 2. Sachin showed some really good positive form today. He got out in a stupid way, but I don't feel he is in bad form now (I had doubts after the first innings) 3. This is going to be a controversial one, but I feel it's a positive. In the long run, this experience to Praveen, Ishant and Sreesanth is going to be completely invaluable. Watching Ishant toiling yesterday with Praveen, I really felt they had finally understood what it takes to be a top test cricketer. Their mentor Zak, wasn't there, and when he is there, we all know what a big effect he has on their confidence. Yes the seamers were rubbish compared to England's. Their attainment was awful. But the effort put in by these two, Praveen & Ishant has been commendable, and I really got the impression they valued their places in the team. 4. The way our batsmen played Graeme Swann. This will be crucial in the fourth test at the OVAL. We destroyed Swann, regardless of what you want to think. Even Harbhajan, a guy on the lowest form and lowest confidence of his career, was batting against him as if he were some sort of amateur. Unfortunately, that's where the positives end. Some of you may say Laxman's fluency is a positive. I don't really think so. His losses in concentration at crucial times have really hurt us. Dhoni's wicketkeeping and batting AND captaincy has been really painful to watch, and it's got to the stage where I'm pitying him. Raina and Yuvraj I feel unfortunate for. Raina played really well at Lords, but his short ball problem needs further work. I think he'll be fine in the next few years though. The sudden exposure to crucial responsibility is not for everyone. He will take his time, but we should cushion him for another year. To an extent the same applies with Yuvraj. Harbhajan is a really worry. I don't know what's happening. It's widely known that he's one of the most mentally weak in the Indian side and he's a confidence bowler. The way he was hitting out today looked as if he was desperate for some recognition from the media. THE WORST THING we can do now is drop him. Yes it's a hard decision to stomach, but look at what England did with Stuart Broad, and let's take a leaf from their book. He's got 400 test wickets and is very experienced. He needs to sit down, be encouraged, and sort out his bowling, flighting it more, slowing it down, and letting the ball grip so that it turns. He's been bowling at 60mph this series - why so fast? He should be bowling in the late 40s! What next? If Sehwag and Zak are back, then yeah maybe 2-1. or 2-0 or 3-0 to England. However, if the hunger is back, and the Indian team feel suitably insulted, then I can see it being 2-2. This Indian team is overfilling with talent that is not performing. So what if the ball seams and moves? Dale Steyn at 95mph vs Stuart Broad at 85mph? I think I know who the Indian team would rather face. Their confidence is down, and it needs to be up within the next week. I hope, for India's sake, that their batsmen and bowlers get an opportunity to hit form in the tour game later this week. Zaheer should play in the next test, niggle or no niggle. When your country needs you, you should respond. Gambhir should not have sat out this test, people fight it out all the time in the crease, there is sufficient protection available these days to enable you to make it through. 2-2 sure is a tough ask at the moment. But this Indian team needs belief - self-belief. I feel the Indian team should bat first in the next test. Yes it is difficult in seaming conditions vs the new ball, but the batsmen really need an opportunity to score a big first innings total with no pressure. Once that happens, the confidence will start clicking. The bowlers will feel less under pressure, and there will be that leap in India's stride. Let us all hope that this team gets there selves together. It will be extremely embarrassing otherwise.

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Tbh if India pull of a 2-2 it'll show the real strength the team has, which I think it can pull off but the determination or hunger isn't there. I mean we've drawn so many tests from bad positions in recent times, but these last 2 tests we've just been helpless, I've not seen India perform this bad in last few years apart from the centurion test. Sehwag and Gambhir will hang around for 4-5 years (hopefully) so opening slot wont be much problem but Zak I doubt will continue in tests after the Australian tour. Bowling needs a major over-haul. Young guys should be tried, let them fail but we might find someone eventually. The current one's don't seem to be trying to get better because they know they wont be replaced.

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Tbh if India pull of a 2-2 it'll show the real strength the team has, which I think it can pull off but the determination or hunger isn't there. I mean we've drawn so many tests from bad positions in recent times, but these last 2 tests we've just been helpless, I've not seen India perform this bad in last few years apart from the centurion test. Sehwag and Gambhir will hang around for 4-5 years (hopefully) so opening slot wont be much problem but Zak I doubt will continue in tests after the Australian tour. Bowling needs a major over-haul. Young guys should be tried, let them fail but we might find someone eventually. The current one's don't seem to be trying to get better because they know they wont be replaced.
I think we can we win a test with a full team but I doubt that we can win both. This might finish like the last series in Australia.

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Comeback may be possible only if we were playing in the flat tracks on Hindustan and no UDRS is available. But seeing as thats not the case, I sense that an innings defeat fir Ind will be on the cards for 3 rd test.

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I think we can we win a test with a full team but I doubt that we can win both. This might finish like the last series in Australia.
If we manage to win the next test, I see us being able to win the last one. Our team will be at a high, (and one not that high that we get overconfident!) and I can literally see us batting out England at the Oval. It's all a mental game here. The problem's lie with India's confidence, mindset and hunger.

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Don't agree with all points' date=' esp. about Bhajji, but it was a good read. Thanks.[/quote'] No worries, glad you enjoyed it. Really needed to vent out my anger and disappointment in a structured manner lol. What do you think we should do with Bhaji? Drop him? And then what? That's the end of his career? The guy is a decent tailender also, something that the rest of our bowlers really lack...

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Good points but no way should Dartbhajan be given any more chances. FFS he is the senior bowler and should be leading the attack, not being treated like a rookie who needs his fragile confidence boosted. If he can't cut it anymore then he's dropped. Fact is if he was in a football team he would have been axed ages ago - no team can afford to carry a passenger.

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Tbh if India pull of a 2-2 it'll show the real strength the team has, which I think it can pull off but the determination or hunger isn't there. I mean we've drawn so many tests from bad positions in recent times, but these last 2 tests we've just been helpless, I've not seen India perform this bad in last few years apart from the centurion test. Sehwag and Gambhir will hang around for 4-5 years (hopefully) so opening slot wont be much problem but Zak I doubt will continue in tests after the Australian tour. Bowling needs a major over-haul. Young guys should be tried, let them fail but we might find someone eventually. The current one's don't seem to be trying to get better because they know they wont be replaced.
2-1 is very much possible..but 2-2 is far from practicality. Most likely we are not losing next test and hopefully win 1 of the nest two.. but if we win the next one, Eng would try their best to ensure that 4th one is a draw (making a flat pitch!) - assuming we get 4 fit bowlers to bowl (only difference in the two sides so far).

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STFU OP:finger:
if fans think that sehwag will turn up with no acclimitisation and hit a ton at edgbaston they are dreaming. northants if they win the toss will bat, no doubt about it. no player will come in and instantly perform. the next test begins next wednesday and viru isnt even in england yet. get real ppl.

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hope we remain no.1 in test :pray:
im sorry but if we lose this test by 1 test, the rankings may say we are number 1 but we arent. england are miles better atm

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2-1 is very much possible..but 2-2 is far from practicality. Most likely we are not losing next test and hopefully win 1 of the nest two.. but if we win the next one' date=' Eng would try their best to ensure that 4th one is a draw (making a flat pitch!) - assuming we get 4 fit bowlers to bowl (only difference in the two sides so far).[/quote'] The crucial thing is that the we need to win the next test. As for the 4th test. India have historically always done well on the flat pitches back at home. The Oval is a flat ground with assistance for the spinners. If Bhaji is back in form (or is replaced with another spinner), and our batting has confidence, why should we not win the 4th test. It is all about pressure, not so much the swing or pitches.

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absofruitly, same could have been said after the first test, or the first class game before that, or the last two odi losses against the depleted west indies.

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The crucial thing is that the we need to win the next test. As for the 4th test. India have historically always done well on the flat pitches back at home. The Oval is a flat ground with assistance for the spinners. If Bhaji is back in form (or is replaced with another spinner), and our batting has confidence, why should we not win the 4th test. It is all about pressure, not so much the swing or pitches.
have u not been watching india at home against top sides in the past 3 years? our home form on decent flat tracks is getting WORSE

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well as has been said,2-0 at the moment is terrible not acceptable,if we can come back 2-2 which is a must all will be forgiven BUT not forgotten,i really think kirsten should have seen this year out,im not sure duncan coming has had the same positive effect,not thats any excuse..... i rekon sehwag even a half fit sehwag,ghambir n zak,makes a massive difference,sorry but i would drop raina n yuvi,i rekon pujaras a better bet unless injured....i cant understand.....i mean willis was spot on,indias bowling looked innocous,willis n stewart were very respectful,but that made it worse in my eyes,our bowlers bowled like wan*ers,we need openers,dravids to important to be opening,opening partnerships have been the reason we are number 1!!! we need back up openers,esp as sehwags been unavailable for the first 2 tests,raina n yuvi are top odi players,but against the short ball are playing like pu*sies,sehwags so vital for this team,the balance is fuc*ed...my prediction,sehwag in the team,minumum 2-1 or with a bit of luck 2-2! only then will the goras see why we are number 1,instead having to listen that england are number 1!!!!!!!

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lets give it our best shot with our best possible team' date='if we lose then we know we have a major rebuilding project on our hands which was always inevitable but will be forced on us sooner than later.[/quote'] Our best possible team is still fresh from their injuries man, they won't be really 100%. The result will be same. I will come back her and plead guilty if otherwise. Out of 8 and a bit days of play, we just had 3 good sessions, how can we get back from there. I mean, look at these Eng players, they are incredibly fit, strong and skilled in home conditions. I am an optimistic person, but realistic too.

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Being an Indian Fan it's obviously disappointing to see Them lose, but to be honest I really enjoyed the grit and the competition with which these matches are being played. Watching the English seamers bowl on helpful tracks and the Indian batsmen putting their skills to the test is a real treat and seems like real cricket. Comparing the two Teams England are definitely better in their home conditions but with Indian team coming back to full strength, the next couple of matches should be on a more even keel. And what is this obsession with being no 1 in the world and retaining it. We should allow our players to play in a more relaxed manner and enjoy the game, then only do we stand to see talents like Sachin coming through the ranks in the next generation. It's a game you win some you loose some!

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Agreed with OP for most of the things other than Bhajji part. We have been playing Bhajji for so many years in hope that one day he'll get confidence. In process we have created a bowler who averages almost in mid-thirties even after 400 wickets. Enough of him and End of the road.

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Alright, for the pessimists its always over before its over. We won the Test at Perth after being 2-0 down (controversially), we won the Durban Test after being 1-0 down, we won the Galle test after being 1-0 down. All these things say that we are winning this Test. You wont realize it now, but when we do do well. So just keep the faith going (if possible) because to me it looks like an Indian victory here :popcorn:

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no way should Dartbhajan be given any more chances. FFS he is the senior bowler and should be leading the attack' date=' [b']not being treated like a rookie who needs his fragile confidence boosted.
+1. I do agree with most of what was said in the OP though. All good things must come to an end, and a revival of sorts can only be made possible if players like Bhajji are dealt with strictly, not if he's treated like a toddler who's just learning how to walk. Now when I look back at the goings on of this series so far, I tend to think that a fall this big and this painful was absolutely necessary to bring Team India back to reality. Maybe they were taking for granted the fact that they'd never lost a series for a long time, and that England wouldn't be able to pwn them the way they did. It was simply a case of underestimating the potential of your opponent, which is a huge no-no in any sport, leave alone cricket. That's not the only hurdle though. Player injuries, fitness concerns, and insane schedules, not to mention misplaced priorities, have been our undoing, and the BCCI has a very big role to play in that, so I wouldn't just blame our players. Even our greats like Sachin, Dravid, and even VVS have had to go through lows in their career when people wrote them off when they were in bad form. The same happened with Ganguly. Irfan Pathan has also been relegated to the sidelines ever since he's become a shadow of his former self. Sh*t happens. People get the wrong end of the stick whenever their presence in the team is more of an impediment than a boon. Harbhajan shouldn't be an exception. He needs to realize that right away, because his place in the playing XI has solely been cemented on the basis of his reputation rather than his current form. That is simply not the way to go if your aim is to become one of the best Test teams in the world. Stuart Broad may have been in terrible form before this series, but he has used this opportunity and this one chance to prove his detractors wrong instead of taking for granted that his reputation can earn him a spot in the playing XI. That's the main difference between him and Bhajji.

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No worries' date=' glad you enjoyed it. Really needed to vent out my anger and disappointment in a structured manner lol. What do you think we should do with Bhaji? Drop him? And then what? That's the end of his career? The guy is a decent tailender also, something that the rest of our bowlers really lack...[/quote'] There has been lot of threads about Bhajji. I think we have beaten that horse to death. Anyway, here is my 2 cents. I believe Mishra is worse than Bhajji. But we need to rest Bhajji for a couple of tests for his own good. He needs to work on his bowling by himself, without the pressure of playing in every match. He is in poor form. Let him take a break from cricket. If he has still got it in him, he will come back as a stronger player. We are doing a disservice to our team, other spinners and Bhajji himself by keeping a non-producer in the team.

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Sehwag, his return will be a big boost for the team. The *settled* opening pair of Viru and Gambo was one of the main reasons for our test wins. Sehwag is the guy the bowlers will be worried about. If he scores even 20-30 runs, that'll be scored in an aggressive manner. It can throw the the bowler off from their line n length. Also, it'll allow the likes of Dravid to settle in. What we've seen so far in these 2 test matches is, that Eng opening bowlers consistently bowled a full length outside offstump to right-handers with impunity. Dravid would leave most of those balls so after 2-3 overs, the run-rate was around 1.5-2! In case of Sehwag, he would go after most of those deliveries. He might get out to one of those but he'll smack few of those to boundaries too. In the process, the runs will come and it'll make the bowlers think more and allow the following batsmen to settle in. And of he manages to score more than 20-30 then...:--D I do hope Zaheer gets fit for the 3rd test. I believe if he's there, he can guide the other seamers about their bowling. We lost the 2nd test on day 3, when Ishant and Sree bowled poorly and allowed the batsmen to score boundaries. Couple that with Dhoni's horrible field placing and we saw a team score 400+ runs. I alwasy felt that Ishant is a sort of bowler who, upon getting hit for a couple of boundaries, looses his line n length. He was bowling well in 1st innings when the ball was seaming around and the batsmen were in defensive mood. But in 2nd innings, when Pietersen and Bell started scoring boundaries of him, he just lost it completely. He was back to bowling short and wide and the customary half-volley on the pads of the batsmen. It applies for Sree also, but then we know how temperamental he is. I honestly believe that if Zak was around, he would've told the bowlers where to bowl and they wouldn't have been thrashed around like this. Leaving the 'Leader of bowling' part aside aside, atleast Dhoni would've had 2 bowlers (Praveen and Zaheer) who could at least control the scoring rate by bowling a tight line n length. But then, the way Dhoni set his field, I doubt even Brett Lee could've done something. :rolleyes: That's why I do believe (or love to believe :--D), that if these 2 guys come back to the team *fully fit*, we could win the remaining tests. Let's hope for the best. :two_thumbs_up:

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Alright, for the pessimists its always over before its over. We won the Test at Perth after being 2-0 down (controversially), we won the Durban Test after being 1-0 down, we won the Galle test after being 1-0 down. All these things say that we are winning this Test. You wont realize it now, but when we do do well. So just keep the faith going (if possible) because to me it looks like an Indian victory here :popcorn:
We were saying same thing after 1st test. Remember India's those stats and article on cricinfo. Best India can do is to draw 2 tests or at least win 1 somehow. But chances are bleak. Coming back strongly with strong mentality won't give you technique to play short balls overnight. MS won't learn to handle swing in one day. Bowlers won't start bowling swinging yorkers to tail-enders with confidence. With the mental strength team can be expected to give a fight. That may result in anything.

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There has been lot of threads about Bhajji. I think we have beaten that horse to death. Anyway, here is my 2 cents. I believe Mishra is worse than Bhajji. But we need to rest Bhajji for a couple of tests for his own good. He needs to work on his bowling by himself, without the pressure of playing in every match. He is in poor form. Let him take a break from cricket. If he has still got it in him, he will come back as a stronger player. We are doing a disservice to our team, other spinners and Bhajji himself by keeping a non-producer in the team.
Bhaji getting "rested" is better than him getting "dropped". My main issue here is the confidence of the team. As a side not, I also think our team is very fatigued and mentally drained. We have been competitive in the tests till Day 4 and Day 5, when we have been getting battered. Physically I dont think we have that much of a limitation, even though we are less fit than the English side. I feel our poor performances are also due to mental fatigue, and not being able to maintain intensity through all 5 days of a test match.

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How Edgbaston track will behave? After seeing how Nottingham track behaved in 4 days, it will be interesting to see how the track at Edgbaston will be. Nottingham track has live grass on day one and bowl swung and seamed prodigiously while later as son came out, grass became brown and Indian bowlers were still searching for swing but could not get much out of it, but later Bresnan showed that you need to hit the deck hard once the green grass had dried. Brown patches of grass helped powerful bowlers like Bresnan to get extra bounce and every Indian batsman struggled with that bounce. Can anyone enlighten about Edgbaston wicket? I watched a ODD county match last week for 1-2 overs and it looked a hard bouncy track to me, bouncier than Nottingham, but less swing.

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