Time to shed the century fixation

[Lurker]

So lemme get this straight- you are right now displaying the temerity and insubordination to speak for every other mind but mine ? How effing ridiculous and pompous !

Take it any which way you like.

Your legacy is not just your numbers- nobody keeps performing at 'optimal efficiency' throughout their careers. If he is good enough, he plays. A player that scores at 35 average after 350 games is better than one who called it quits before 350 games ( assuming their records up to 350 game point is similar). Even though the former player has lower average, he is better. Why ? because he was STILL GOOD ENOUGH to play on while the other one wasn't. Your legacy enhances even in your diminished output mode, so long as your presence in the team is based on merit. If Tendulkar scores another 2000 ODI runs @35 and ends up with 42-ish average, his legacy then would be greater than him scoring 2000 ODI runs les and ending today with 44 average.

BS. FACT : SRT is ranked 22 in LOI cricket today. That means a small matter of 21 players above SRT in LOI ratings. Yeah sure this is adding to legacy. Here is the SRT's career graph, check it out if interested. http://www.lgiccrankings.com/odi/batting/player-display.php?id=1905 See the dip ever since 2003? And see how the dip continues to...well dip? Look at the graph and do tell me how the dip signifies adding to his legacy Please? xxx

[yoda]

Again, spoken like someone who didnt watch the match. Tendulkar was not batting againts a bowling machine that he'll score at whatever rate he felt like. Match situation & NTINI has to figure in there too. This is like faulting a man for scoring slower when he is facing Ambrose and you are facing Agarkar ! WTF ! Conclusions that only 'mindless number-crunchers who do not watch the match' can come up with!

Did you watch him nudging for 10 singles going from late 80s into the 90s?

[Guest BossBhai]

-- Removed on request of the user --

[Lurker]

Since the world cup this is India has only won twice against Bangladesh and that's about it. Against South Africa India has lost 5th ODI in a row. South Africa is without couple of its full time players but India still struggles to beat South Africa. People seemed to be more concerned about just Tendulkar and nothing else. Not the bowling, not the rest of the batters but just Tendulkar.

Which is my biggest lament too. We are struggling to beat this South African team which is hardly very strong. I mean come on we can not bowl out openers like ABDV and Van Wyk? Against an attack that lacks its best bowler, Shaun Pollock we struggle. That when we have practically a full strength(batting wise Indian team). If we can beat the cr@p out of the likes of Ntini, Langeveldt, Hall, Philander etc then there is no reason to expect us to be get any higher than our current ranking, 7-8 whatever it is. xxx

[CC1981]

Take it any which way you like.

Okay. I will take it in the 'straight outta your @$$' way.

BS.

A one-word proclamation without justification *IS* the definition of BS!

FACT : SRT is ranked 22 in LOI cricket today. That means a small matter of 21 players above SRT in LOI ratings. Yeah sure this is adding to legacy.

yes it is. I already said so why. His legacy is increasing as long as he is playing for India on BASIS OF MERIT and keeps performing. As i said, a Tendulkar who scores 2000 runs @ 35.00 average from now on leaves a better legacy than one who hangs up his boots now and protects his 44 average.

See the dip ever since 2003? And see how the dip continues to...well dip? Look at the graph and do tell me how the dip signifies adding to his legacy Please?

His dip proves that like all greats, his production will not be at the 'highest production level' near the end of his career. He is a Ferrari which drives like a Porsche today due to old age. Its better to keep running as a Porsche than not run at all !

[Predator_05]

Why only him? Rahul Dravid struggled to put bat to ball too and threw his wicket away in the end. I remember him not being able to pick a run against Ntini in the 43rd over. Rahul picked up the SR pretty well in the middle but didn't set the world on fire either. Towards the end he struggled to even consistently pick singles. I hate to stereotype but most Indian followers are obsessed with individual cricketers rather than the team. Some section feel happy if say Tendulkar or Rahul or Ganguly score not with standing what result the team produced.

Dravid did what he was expected to - score a fighting fifty and build a partnership while playing second fiddle. That is how he has ALWAYS played in ODI's. His strike rate is still under 75, so we shouldn't expect anything more from him regardless of the situation. Tendulkar on the other hand, is a FAST scorer by nature, and even in recent years he has always looked to score at a run a ball. Today's innings was the slowest score he has made in a long time. Your second point is absolutely spot on though. Indian fans are just like the cricketers - individualistic and additionally, they are unable to see the bigger picture due to their obsession over one or two "favourite" players. I swear, i haven't seen this trait in fans from other countries.

[CC1981]

Did you watch him nudging for 10 singles going from late 80s into the 90s?

Yes. I also watched him score 49 runs off 47 balls near the end, thats why i didnt come up with a truely 'not seen the match but talking like a retard' worthy comment such as 'he slowed down for his ton'.

[Lurker]

We are not discussing an all-time 11 or best XI or alltime best batsmen or any variation thereoff ..... this topic is just to answer those who are calling for SRT to be dropped on various pretexts ... the latest one being He aint better than { fill the blanks } .... turns out RD is the current best Batsmen ... atleast untill I put up the stats in my previous post.

That itself is damning that RD is our best batsman in LOI. Coming back to the best batsman question BB who in your opinion is India's best LOI batsman today? xx

[CC1981]

Against an attack that lacks its best bowler, Shaun Pollock we struggle.

South Africa's best bowler for the past 2-3 years has been the one and only Makhaya Ntini. So no, Saffies were NOT lacking their best bowler.

[yoda]

Anything else ?

Yes, he sucked today. :cantstop: If you read some of my other posts on SRT and ODIs, I have always maintained that he is our best ODI bat and a must be in the ODI team. You claimed that SRT on valium is much much better than Dravid on steroids, which is not the case atleast this year.

[Lurker]

yes it is. I already said so why. His legacy is increasing as long as he is playing for India on BASIS OF MERIT and keeps performing. As i said, a Tendulkar who scores 2000 runs @ 35.00 average from now on leaves a better legacy than one who hangs up his boots now and protects his 44 average.

Yes so a batsman who was once world's best is now world's 22nd best and his legacy is enriched by that. Keep bringing out those gems.

His dip proves that like all greats, his production will not be at the 'highest production level' near the end of his career.

Highest? It is not even in top 20 of world cricket. Just showed you the ranking. That means that there are freaking 20 better batsman than him, including 3 from India. Aint that nice.

He is a Ferrari which drives like a Porsche today due to old age. Its better to keep running as a Porsche than not run at all !

An old artifact worthy of keeping in museum is more apt. But iike I said the damage will come from his supporters. xxx

[CC1981]

Yes, he sucked today. :cantstop:

Baseless assessment. Third best bat who batted in the match yesteday (from EITHER side). As i said, 'just looking at numbers' type of analysis can only come up with nonsense of this type where if i score slower than you while i face Ambrose and you face Agarkar, i get tagged with 'you sucked' label.

[Lurker]

South Africa's best bowler for the past 2-3 years has been the one and only Makhaya Ntini. So no' date=' Saffies were NOT lacking their best bowler.[/quote'] Yes and ICC is a bunch of drunks to have given Shaun Pollock the number 1 bowler by LOI ranking yeah? xxx

[Guest BossBhai]

-- Removed on request of the user --

[CC1981]

Yes so a batsman who was once world's best is now world's 22nd best and his legacy is enriched by that. Keep bringing out those gems.

Yes it is- its an addition to his cumulative legacy. Which is what legacy is- the cumulative ! As i said, only a person who thinks a player's legacy is simply to himself will see Tendulkar's slowed production as tarnishing the legacy.

Highest? It is not even in top 20 of world cricket. Just showed you the ranking. That means that there are freaking 20 better batsman than him, including 3 from India. Aint that nice.

On paper. Not in reality. In reality, Sachin is still the #3 batsman in Indian ODIs even on the last few season's form.

An old artifact worthy of keeping in museum is more apt. But iike I said the damage will come from his supporters.

False assessment. Tendulkar's presence in the ODI team is still very much on the back of merit. There is at best two players who are more deserving than Tendulkar today in the ODI lineup.

[CC1981]

Yes and ICC is a bunch of drunks to have given Shaun Pollock the number 1 bowler by LOI ranking yeah? xxx

LOI rankings are arbitary- ICC's ranking is no better than a dozen other floating around. It has no scientific basis in it, so i dont pay any attention to it. To anyone who watches cricket consistently, it is obvious that over the past 2-3 years, Ntini has outbowled Pollock on a consistent basis both in tests and ODIs opening the bowling.

[Predator_05]

There isnt one single player who consistently performs day in and day out as SRT used to do ... theres simply no single person.

Yuvraj Singh did throughout last season, but he hasn't been the same since his return to the World Cup squad...:confused_smile:

[Lurker]

There isnt one single player who consistently performs day in and day out as SRT used to do ... theres simply no single person. But In tests there is no doubt that RD has been our No 1 for a while.

I would say RD is probably the best in both though his "betterness" is certainly lot more well-pronounced in Test cricket. Coming to SRT now BB here's a candid question. Having seen SRT as the best Indian batsman period of his time(no LOI or Test qualification needed) do you think he should seriously consider if he should carry on or not? Lets not qualify with how the other batsmen suck and so he is still better than the rest. All thing equal do you think he should seriously think where this is going? xxx

[yoda]

I dont think the numbers you got are right ... heres the numbers I got .. Since 01-01-2007 in ODIs

RD            15   12   3   501  78   74   66   55.66   0   6   0
SRT        [COLOR=#ff0000]   12   11   2   413 100*  99   60   45.88   1   4   2[/COLOR]

although the avg says 10 point diff he is just 88 runs short

Pls explain based on the above 2007 stats, how SRT is on valium (he is averaging same his career average here) and how he is better than RD at his best.

[CC1981]

do you think he should seriously consider if he should carry on or not?

Who on earth says that if you arnt the best, you should retire ? Eh ?!? You should retire only when a) you feel like it or b) you arnt good enough to merit a spot in your chosen format. None of these fit Tendulkar's ODI game, so no, he shouldnt have any considerations towards retirement. However, if he fails to average 40 in Tests in England, he should call it a day in that format. Only time i'd question Tendulkar is when his 'last 10 matches' average dips below 35 and overall strike-rate through the period dips below 75. Else, he is worth his spot. Period.