Ram Posted July 8, 2007 Share Posted July 8, 2007 If ever Pakistan didnt know the meaning of the term " The chickens have come home to roost" , they must surely know it now. For years , they used terror as an instrument of state-policy , preferring a proxy war to bleed India to a slow death. The Islamic Radicals were given a free hand , full support and a license to do whatever it takes. These guys have grown bigger than the govt now, the the establishment failed to realize it. And when the world's mood turned categorically agaisnt Pak's policy of abetting terror in India , The govt did take some steps to curb their activities. Alas , its too late. Pakistan has been gripped a by a series of incidents where the Fundementalists have held center stage, the most current one being the mosque seige. The biggest threat to Mushharaf is not from the opposition parties , but from the islamic extremists. Mushharaf didnt know the terror pipeline was something that couldnt be swtiched off with a close of a valve.Now they have turned against the govt itself ! The very terrorists that fought in Kashmir , are now taking part in the mosque seige. The radicalisation is complete in Pakistan. Its not far away from total anarchy. And that is bad news for India. Imagine the pak military arsenal under the control of extremists ! The world is watching with concerned looks, while many in the indian intelligence would have started to lose their sleep now. There is no way in the planet , a nuclear armed country can fall into extremist hands. There was a even talk sometime ago that , the pak nuclear installations were to be protected by American special forces, since America didnt trust the pak forces to remain loyal to the govt. Its time they started to dust-off those files. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theguyinallblue Posted July 8, 2007 Share Posted July 8, 2007 i am lovin it... an economically weak pakistan will always be an advantage fo india Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ram Posted July 8, 2007 Author Share Posted July 8, 2007 i am lovin it... an economically weak pakistan will always be an advantage fo india We have to get over this Pak-Paranoia for a change and think interms of the larger interests. A poltically unstable Pakistan will be disaster for India. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dhondy Posted July 8, 2007 Share Posted July 8, 2007 These are "students", would you believe it? Goodness only knows what they study. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rajiv Posted July 8, 2007 Share Posted July 8, 2007 Vow, what a post man. It becomes so much sense and it's really hard-hitting Actually, I would like to see a Pakistani's POV on this. Where's Faisal? How do you see the current affairs, where is it leading Pakistan has its liberalized, westernized, bollywood-loving public and on the other hand you have these people. What a contrast! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ram Posted July 8, 2007 Author Share Posted July 8, 2007 Pakistan's every manouvre vis-a-vis India has gone horribly wrong. They wanted Kashmir to come into the fore-front. They wanted the US , UN and others to mediate . But India would have nothing of it, and insisted that its a bilateral issue and there was no room for third-party intervention. They executed Kargil , hoping that it will help release the kashmir issue off the back-burner. It turned out to be terrible flop. Pakistan was TOLD to vacate the heights by the powers that be , and India's stature in the intnl community rose , for showing restraint and not crossing the line-of-control, which they easliy could have done. The 9/11 was the biggest turn-around ever. The world' mood shifted. Now , the same terrorists , who had till now been Pak's biggest strength , have become its biggest liability. Musharraf has done what he can. But there are reports that he is on weak ground in the military, and his losing followers , fast. We must remember that he came to power on an anti-india platform. Now , when he has sobered a bit , the extremists couldnt take it anymore. They tried to kill him , twice. There have been several attempts recently to throw Pervez off the power. First it was the opposition parties , then the Judge row and now the mosque siege. Will he survive this ? The link given below is the "Hardtalk" interview conducted in early 2005 with the then Pakistani Foreign minister , Khurshid Kasuri. Stephen Sackur grills him with some the most uncomfortable questions that have been asked to a Pak diplomat on a world stage. Kasuri is lost for words on many occasions and resorts pure rhetoric to avoid the questions. An interview worth watching , i would say. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/hardtalk/4176202.stm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THX_1138 Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 very well states maris, and it has been vindicated in more than once instance... when you breed extremism, especially using religion or economics. for instance look at afghanistan. the CIA and the arabian nations used the religion card to fight the russians and when they russians left, the world turned its back on afghanistan, thus breeding the taliban movement which would later spur more extremists movements such as chechneya and later be a training ground for al queda... i feel sorry for pakistan. in one breath they want to embrace progress, economic prosperity, and a secular tolerant government... the very mullahs who they once rallied behind (recall the whole 'islamic bomb' parade after the nuclear tests of chinese made popcorn bombs), are the ones who are the shakles in their feet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dada_rocks Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 We have to get over this Pak-Paranoia for a change and think interms of the larger interests. A poltically unstable Pakistan will be disaster for India. MM don't worry Pakistan army is too big for its size to let things disintegrate completely and as long as that doesn't happen we have nothing to worry aporpos pakistan's political instability's impact on India. Yes economically hassled pakistan in its own owes does help India. If u look at history every time these guys have expereinces little econmic success and relative stability they have become adventurous on border. So India's interest lies in pakistan bogged in its own problems not completely failed though . So enjoy the drama unfold on TV screen with pop-corn in tow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Outsider Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 Good OP, Sriram. The passage of Pakistan in the hands of these radical Mullahs is indeed very troubling. ISI is one of the better intelligence agencies in the world in terms of networks and India's resources would be stretched to the limit fighting them if they fall well and truly under the Mullah umbrella. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ram Posted July 9, 2007 Author Share Posted July 9, 2007 MM don't worry Pakistan army is too big for its size to let things disintegrate completely and as long as that doesn't happen we have nothing to worry aporpos pakistan's political instability's impact on India. Yes economically hassled pakistan in its own owes does help India. If u look at history every time these guys have expereinces little econmic success and relative stability they have become adventurous on border. So India's interest lies in pakistan bogged in its own problems not completely failed though . So enjoy the drama unfold on TV screen with pop-corn in tow. DR, I quite dont agree with many of what you said. An economically stable Pakistan is in the interest of India. Remember , people with comfortable life-styles dont think about blowing themselves. Its deprivations, economic hardships and lack of opportunities that drive youth into extremist ideals. When the country is doing well , that is when the moderates have the best chance to make their voice heard. Ideology is sold easier , when life is more desperate. And I can see that many here have not gotten over the I-dont-like-Pakistan mindset. An unstable , violent neighbor is never in our interest. It takes just a few hundred militants , armed with a few kgs of explosives to cause chaos in India. India must do all it can now , to prop up the moderates. And ironically Musharraf comes in that list. In Pervez, we atleast know what to expect from the adversary. If he goes , then God knows what will happen next. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 BTW how do you guys view the recent involvement of an Indian doctor in the terror attacks? It is truly terrible to see little kids happy to blow themselves up. Truly a lot of young ones in Pakistan are corrupted by the selfish thoughts of few religious leaders by the looks of it. On another note what do you guys think about the Indian doctors that are ready to blow people up too? I could even understand the little ones being a bit gullible but how about learned ones that took up the noble doctor's profession ready to blow people up? I find it equally terrible people that are learned and have seen life are falling for this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ram Posted July 9, 2007 Author Share Posted July 9, 2007 If a person as educated as this particular individual, and that too considering the nature of his profession, could bring himself upto doing something as crazy as this , then MAYBE there is a "legitimate" reason. Maybe he has a genuine grouse. Who knows ? I am just imagining myself to be a lets say palestinian resident. If everyday of my life is chaos ( no water, no fuel , no electricity) , when there is zero security , when some of my family members that go out never return, what would i do ? hmm.... I would definitely NOT die wondering. Was it the mayor of London who actually defended the suicide bombers saying that such measures are their only way of standing upto repressive actions ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 Still blowing up airports ain't the answer. Whatever the reason, blowing up innocents isn't going to help anyone's cause. I cannot think of one advantage blowing up people or buildings. Has blowing up trade center or the UK bombings helped anyone? Absolutely not. In fact it has made life miserable for a lot of people of their sects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ram Posted July 9, 2007 Author Share Posted July 9, 2007 Still blowing up airports ain't the answer. Whatever the reason' date=' blowing up innocents isn't going to help anyone's cause. I cannot think of one advantage blowing up people or buildings. Has blowing up trade center or the UK bombings helped anyone? Absolutely not. In fact it has made life miserable for a lot of people of their sects.[/quote'] So as long as you dont kill innocent civilians , is suicide bombing "OK" then ? So, will you support the insurgents in Iraq who are opposing the occupation ? ( The caveat here is ofcourse, the insurgents who try to kill the allied forces military and not the ones that blow-up market places or mosques) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 So as long as you dont kill innocent civilians , is suicide bombing "OK" then ? So, will you support the insurgents in Iraq who are opposing the occupation ? ( The caveat here is ofcourse, the insurgents who try to kill the allied forces military and not the ones that blow-up market places or mosques) Well why do you reckon the war was fought? Either it was for extra land or religious upper hand. I'm not a big fan of war but if you are fighting a war you are to take the other guy down of course otherwise you will have to give up on your life. There are only couple of choices in war really. Suicide bombing is not waging war IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ram Posted July 10, 2007 Author Share Posted July 10, 2007 Well why do you reckon the war was fought? Either it was for extra land or religious upper hand. I'm not a big fan of war but if you are fighting a war you are to take the other guy down of course otherwise you will have to give up on your life. There are only couple of choices in war really. Suicide bombing is not waging war IMO. NO war can be justified. If a soldier were to ask justification of " Why do i have to put my life in risk for this cause ? Can you show me its worth it ? " , then half the military would be depleted. The Iraq was totally illegal. It was based on false premises ( WMD threat and all the crap). Yet , the American soldier fought the war. Nobody stood around with the hands tied saying they couldnt fight an illegal war. Similarly , when you have your country occupied by illegal foreign forces , then the first reaction would be to make them go away. That was what an iraqi military would have done if it had existed still. There would be fighting street battles at every corner. Unfortunately , the army doesnt exist anymore. So , isnt it incumbent on the iraqi resident to resist the occupation ? Now , to what extent you can take that resistance upto , is something that needs to be debated. But dont you atleast agree that occupation needs to resisted ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 Any occupation by the outsiders needs to be resisted no doubts at all. That said I still can't see the connection though. What is blowing up busses and airport in UK got to do with this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ram Posted July 10, 2007 Author Share Posted July 10, 2007 Any occupation by the outsiders needs to be resisted no doubts at all. That said I still can't see the connection though. What is blowing up busses and airport in UK got to do with this? No , i totally condemn these sort of incidents. NOTHING can justify harming innocent civilians. I responded with the above point for your question of " what made this an educated doctor do what he did ? " . Sometimes , dignified residents are also led to the path of extremism for the reasons i mentioned above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 No , i totally condemn these sort of incidents. NOTHING can justify harming innocent civilians. I responded with the above point for your question of " what made this an educated doctor do what he did ? " . Sometimes , dignified residents are also led to the path of extremism for the reasons i mentioned above. Again those aren't reasons enough for a man that studied in India for his professional medical degree, migrated Australia for a living and ended up in UK on a short visit to blow up the airport??? Nope your reasons won't cut it sorry. I don't see any logic behind all this whatsoever. Similarly those young ones that blew themselves up in UK a while ago. They were born and bred in UK, went for a short trip to Pakistan, came back to UK and blew the buses and the train station. Now this makes you think what the heck is wrong with these people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ram Posted July 10, 2007 Author Share Posted July 10, 2007 Ravi , I am NOT trying to justify the actions of this doctor. When did i ever say what he did was right ? I was just trying to answer along the lines of " What reasons could force decent residents to take up arms ? " and i pointed out illegal occupation by external forces as one of the reasons. The people who go around blowing buses and trains , obviously have an agenda. An agenda of revenge and retribution , with an aim to create more animosity. There is nothing pure about their intentions. They deserve to be hanged ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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